VIA Rail network developments

[LRTeverywhere]

I would assume to keep costs and controversy to a minium the route would just follow the old Hwy 7 rail right of way with only slight deviations when needed

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

How much consultation is required to restart an old rail corridor?

That depends on if the First Nations people feel the original corridor was stolen from them. Also, if they want to deviate from the original corridor, consultation will be required

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I'm not too worried about Indigenous consultation. I think that's less of a showstopper than resistance from some communities en route, particularly if they aren't getting stops.

I only see thee potentially problematic communities:

• Tweed, which will probably get a station (though not necessarily all trains will stop at it) and that that will likely appease them,
• Sharbot Lake, which HFR will likely detour around, and
• Perth, originally wasn't supposed to have a station due to its close proximity to Smiths Falls, but they may end up getting one to appease them (though it will likely get very limited service).

The few other small towns may be near the old Havelock sub, but the tracks don't go through the centre of them like the above three.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

And there was that report a while back about some ministers still wanting HSR instead. So maybe there's still some internal jostling.

HSR would result in fewer (no?) stops outside of the major cities, so that would be even more problematic with the locals.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by LRTeverywhere

I would assume to keep costs and controversy to a minium the route would just follow the old Hwy 7 rail right of way with only slight deviations when needed

FYI, the Havelock Sub is the old Hwy 7 rail right of way west of Glen Tay. Between Glen Tay and Smiths Falls they will likely run parallel to CP's Belleville Sub.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

HSR would result in fewer (no?) stops outside of the major cities, so that would be even more problematic with the locals.

It would. But I get the sense, that some ministers see the lack of HSR between major cities as an economic competitiveness issue. And I personally agree. Setting aside politics, we're in a country with poor driving conditions for at least 3 months of the year, with high fuel prices, a rising carbon tax, and an uncompetitive aviation market that isn't subsidized. There aren't many developed countries in the world where traveling between three large, nationally important metros a few hundred km apart, is this difficult and expensive. Oh and all those metros have growing populations that are only going to make air and road traffic worse over the coming decades.

All of the above said, we're also a country which clearly has no ability to execute nationally significant infrastructure that is publicly beneficial (as opposed to say multi-billion dollar pipelines helping out shareholders of oil and gas companies). So I'm sure there's also the realist contingent, along with the politically astute pushing for the absolute minimum to get built, as opposed to anything approaching real ambition. After all, those extra billions can buy lots of votes.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It would. But I get the sense, that some ministers see the lack of HSR between major cities as an economic competitiveness issue. And I personally agree. Setting aside politics, we're in a country with poor driving conditions for at least 3 months of the year, with high fuel prices, a rising carbon tax, and an uncompetitive aviation market that isn't subsidized. There aren't many developed countries in the world where traveling between three large, nationally important metros a few hundred km apart, is this difficult and expensive. Oh and all those metros have growing populations that are only going to make air and road traffic worse over the coming decades.

All of the above said, we're also a country which clearly has no ability to execute nationally significant infrastructure that is publicly beneficial (as opposed to say multi-billion dollar pipelines helping out shareholders of oil and gas companies). So I'm sure there's also the realist contingent, along with the politically astute pushing for the absolute minimum to get built, as opposed to anything approaching real ambition. After all, those extra billions can buy lots of votes.

I’m not opposed to HSR, but it serves a very different market than HFR. While there is some overlap HSR competes directly with flying where as HFR competes with driving. The vast majority of those traveling between Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal drive, so HFR will be useful to far more people than HSR. The best option would be to build both, but if we have to choose only one, I would pick HFR.

[SL123]

Government of Canada launches the next phase in the procurement process for High Frequency Rail

News release
March 9, 2022

Today, the Minister of Transport, the Honourable Omar Alghabra, along with the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport, Annie Koutrakis, announced that the Government of Canada is launching a Request for Expressions of Interest seeking the advice and views from industry on the High Frequency Rail project through Buyandsell.gc.ca.

https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-c...ency-rail.html

[lrt's friend]

This project is moving at a snail's pace. Expected completion in the 2030s!!! I may not live to see it in operation.

[roger1818]

Was shared on UT and thought I would post it here.
• Video Link

[DarthVader_1961]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Was shared on UT and thought I would post it here.
• Video Link

About sums it up.. thanks for the giggles

[J.OT13]

Ridiculously slow timeline. Gives enough rope for a next Government to come in an cancel the project all together.

[pattherat]

What are people’s assessments of this take?

(Hold on, wrong link) (fixed) https://www.reddit.com/r/onguardfort...ef_source=link

I’m not knowledgeable enough to know if the poster is being alarmist or if their take on privatization should be taken at face value and be a large concern.

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by pattherat

What are people’s assessments of this take?

(Hold on, wrong link) (fixed) https://www.reddit.com/r/onguardfort...ef_source=link

I’m not knowledgeable enough to know if the poster is being alarmist or if their take on privatization should be taken at face value and be a large concern.

Sort of a short-term gain for long-term pain deal.

From a quick read of the document, looks like Via can't raise enough money from the government to finance HFR, so they're looking to raise it from private sources for the project. In the process, they will put the winning bidder in charge of all rail service in the QC-Windsor corridor.

This question on p61 of the doc sums it up:
What in your view may be the capacity of private capital (including long-term debt and equity) for this project under the envisioned commercial and financial structure? How do you foresee your ability to raise such an amount of private capital during the project horizon


Definitely think they should go back to the drawing board with this one.

[originalmuffins]

Like I said, they are moving way to casually about this. These 3 cities are growing significantly, as are their suburban areas. The country as a whole is growing fast. Not prioritizing any significant movement for our highest density corridor is absolutely ridiculous. 2030s... lol, what a joke. And don't get me started on this stupidity of their privatization efforts.

It's not that complicated to work towards a coherent plan that comes up with a project that helps Canadians utilize a much better mode of transportation. This was supposed to easily circumvent the troubles of travelling via car during a winter storm and etc while also giving another decent option over airfare.

I don't know but I hope something changes real fast about how soon they want to take this seriously - but I doubt it.

[DTcrawler]

No kidding…

I am currently on train 52 from Toronto Union to Ottawa. Left Toronto at 8:32am and currently scheduled to reach Ottawa at 2:52pm thanks to delays. How can anyone think a 6.5 hour train ride is acceptable in a G7 country where the same trip takes 4.5 hours by car? Have spent the majority of this ride either crawling at a snail’s pace or stopped. It’s infuriating.

Even the scheduled travel time of just under 5 hours is too long. I’m really reaching my wits’ end when it comes to VIA. Especially considering my economy ticket cost just under $100!

Something needs to be done yesterday.

[OTSkyline]

I'm giving up hope for VIA, HSR or HFR and anything of that nature. We keep pushing back decisions and delaying every important project for more analysis and more reviews, effectively just kicking the can to the next government.

Canada will never be a connected country where citizens can travel on safe, frequent, reliable, fast and cheap methods of public transportations. Everybody get a car...

[rocketphish]

Millions pledged to upgrade aging stations on Quebec City-Windsor rail corridor
Part of larger high-frequency rail line project

Trevor Pritchard · CBC News
Posted: Apr 07, 2022 4:17 PM ET | Last Updated: 6 hours ago

The federal government is making another expensive budget pledge to bring a high-frequency rail line connecting Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal and Quebec City to fruition.

Thursday's 2022 draft budget sets out $396.8 million over two years to Transport Canada and Infrastructure Canada for "planning and design steps" to run frequent trains between Toronto and Quebec City.

It also includes $42.8 million over four years to Via Rail, with $169.4 million in remaining amortization, to build and upgrade stations and maintenance centres along its Windsor-Quebec City corridor.

Many of the corridor's stations and maintenance centres are "decades-old" and "require significant investments," the budget says.

The rail plan has been in the works since before the COVID-19 pandemic, but was officially announced last year by Transportation Minister Omar Alghabra during a press conference held onboard a Via Rail train.

Via Rail has said a high frequency rail line operating on dedicated tracks would cut travel times by 25 per cent and improve on-time performance by 95 per cent.

Trains on the line are expected to travel at speeds of up to 177-200 km/h, faster than current Via Rail trains but well short of high-speed rail lines, which are capable of at least 250 km/h.

The federal government also pledged hundreds of millions of dollars in the 2021 budget for Via Rail to make infrastructure investments.

The line is expected to open sometime in the early 2030s.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...rail-1.6412201

[OTSkyline]

Another $400M for just "planning and design steps"? When are we actually going to start building the damn thing? We will end up spending $1B dollars without even any shovels in the ground ...

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by roger1818

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/one-person...mond-1.5491790

The TSB released their investigation report on this crash. It concludes that the driver likely didn't perceive "the activated crossing warnings" until he approached the crossing stop line and swerved at the last minute to avoid colliding with the gates, not being able to see how close the train was because the trees were in the way.

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-re.../r21h0087.html

[rocketphish]

And from the Not Ottawa nor VIA rail news department:

Ontario government pledges $75M to restore train service to Timmins

The Canadian Press
Publishing date: Apr 10, 2022 • 3 hours ago • 1 minute read

TIMMINS, Ont. — The Ontario government says it is investing $75 million to restore passenger rail service to northeastern Ontario for the first time in more than a decade.

Premier Doug Ford made the pre-election announcement in Timmins after travelling from Toronto on board an Ontario Northland train.

The government released an updated initial business case for passenger rail service between Timmins and Toronto on Sunday, while future work on a preferred route with 16 stops will include a rail link to Cochrane and then a connection to Polar Bear Express service to Moosonee.

The year-round service, which the province says could begin in the mid-2020s, would allow tourists to visit the north and enable northerners to travel to the provincial capital for sporting events and to access medical care.

Service, which was cancelled in 2012, will range from four to seven days a week based on seasonal travel demands.

Ontario Northland currently operates four buses daily between Toronto and North Bay, and one to two buses daily from North Bay to Timmins and Cochrane.

“Restoring this rail service will be a huge boost not only for families up here, but also to local tourism operators who will once again be able to show the world the type of beauty that is only found in northern Ontario,” Ford said.

The government estimates annual riders of between 40,000 and 60,000 by 2041, while the connection to Cochrane would allow rail service to reach 176,000 residents.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published April 10, 2022.

https://ottawacitizen.com/pmn/news-p...f-0f8c258abf32

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

Another $400M for just "planning and design steps"? When are we actually going to start building the damn thing? We will end up spending $1B dollars without even any shovels in the ground ...

Wholeheartedly agree. They're just wasting everyone's time with this. We need HFR or HSR yesterday. It is really disturbing that they cannot even put together a proper plan for the Quebec Windsor corridor, which has HUGE density and would absolutely have great ridership.

People don't take VIA Rail because its slow and outdated. Why spend 6.5 hours on a train when you can just drive for half of that for many city to city destinations.

"Government of Canada issues Request for Proposals: Spring 2023
Deadline for response to Request for Proposals: Fall 2024 " from their statement on March 10th.

2 years to accept a bid? All this does is delay it to the next government, who will also want to look at it their own way. The bureaucracy around this is ridiculous to the point that I've lost major faith in this development. Just a pipe dream. Would be glad to be proven wrong.