NEW YORK | 15 Penn Plaza (Hotel Penn) | 1,050 FT / 315 M | 52 FLOORS

[Mulan]

Can you please stop talking about a new MSG?

[NYguy]

Vornado has been on a roll in the new district, hopefully some of that will spill over into 15 Penn getting built...



https://malaysia.news.yahoo.com/universal-music-group-move-york-195754509.html

Universal Music Group to Move New York Offices Next to Madison Square Garden





Jem Aswad
20 May 2025

Universal Music Group has announced that it has leased new space for its New York offices at Penn 2, the recently completed office tower along Seventh Avenue next to Madison Square Garden.

The building will serve as the headquarters of iconic labels Def Jam Recordings, Island Records, Mercury Records and Republic Records (all part of the Republic Collective), UMG’s merch company Bravado and Verve Label Group (including Verve, Impulse! and Decca Records U.S.). The building will also serve as the East Coast offices for leading global music publisher Universal Music Publishing Group as well as several UMG corporate functions. The company’s New York offices have been located at 1755 Broadway since the early 2000s.

As part of a 22-year lease, UMG, led by chairman/CEO Lucian Grainge (pictured above), will occupy the entire fourth through seventh floors of Penn 2, as well as a ground-floor space along Seventh Avenue for an unspecified “future premium retail experience dedicated to serving music superfans.” In addition, UMG will have the ability to showcase its artists on large scale LED signage within neighborhood.

The new headquarters will be located within an area fittingly named “The Bustle,” a 430-foot-wide expanse of office space stretching from 31st to 33rd Street on Seventh Avenue. It includes 88,000 square feet of double-height, 23-foot-high, column-free office space where UMG will build its New York offices and studio production facilities complemented by exclusive access to more than 3,500 square feet of landscaped outdoor space.

While centrally located, the area is very heavily trafficked due to the presence of both Penn Station — which serves some 600,000 commuters every weekday — beneath the building and the Moynihan Train Hall across the street, as well as the nearly nightly events at the 18,000-capacity Madison Square Garden.

Combined with the 15 subway lines running beneath the building, the traffic in the area and the relocation of multiple Metro-North commuter train lines to Penn Station starting in 2027, soundproofing the new studios may prove a challenge.

Boyd Muir, UMG’s Chief Operating Officer said, “UMG’s relocation of its New York offices to the new Penn 2 Tower reflects our vision and ambition. Located in the heart of Midtown Manhattan and literally adjacent to Madison Square Garden, one of music’s most storied venues where so many of our artists perform to a packed house, Penn 2 will serve as an ideal nexus for our employees, artists and songwriters. Beyond office space, Penn 2 will house music studios and retail spaces, featuring a range of artist merchandise and exclusive products. We look forward to working with the team at Vornado as we work towards a 2027 move in date.”

Glen Weiss, Executive Vice President, Office Leasing & Co-Head of Real Estate of Vornado Realty Trust, commented: “We are delighted to welcome Universal Music Group to the Penn District, which has firmly established itself as the epicenter of Manhattan’s new West Side. Universal Music’s commitment to Penn 2 is further evidence of the district’s appeal to the world’s most iconic brands in business, lifestyle and entertainment.”

[ChiND]

I’m keeping my fingers crossed!

According to the outlet, Byford considers the renovation Penn Station as a “golden opportunity” to make a significant change in railway services that run between New York and New Jersey.

One of those significant changes involves the potential moving of Madison Square Garden. Last year, the City Council extended MSG’s permit to operate above Penn Station for only five more years, the report said…

“If we’re going to do all of that, why not take the opportunity to fix the damn thing once and for all,” Byford explained. “I’m going to say: get rid of the pillars, which means move MSG, but at the very least, do something with the track configuration to enable through-running.”

https://www.silive.com/news/2025/05/trum...-project-report-says.html?outputType=amp

To finally have a great new station and a great new arena would be amazing. I hope that President Trump makes it happen.
If so, it would be fabulous to see Vornado start an iconic hotel/condo on the former Modell’s site and start marketing an iconic new office tower on the Gimbel’s/A&S site. There would be a tsunami of the redevelopment of garbage in this area.

[NYguy]

^ The guys an idiot for using talking points. He knows better. The City is not going to create another superblock to move MSG west. Even if they would, the FEDS aren't going to spend the major billions it would cost to buy the property from Vornado and the Dolans. I've said it a thousand times, and I'll keep saying it until it sinks in:

-Penn Station is underground. Amtrak owns Penn Station, but itself operates out of the newly built Moynihan.

-Dolan and Vornado owns everything at street level and above (the air rights)

-Gov Hochul has already allocated state funds that were going to the rebuilding of Penn elsewhere, since the FEDS will now pay for it

-FEDS are trying to reduce costs, not throw away billions on a boondoggle that doesn't make sense.



Vornado has said it is willing to sit out the 15 Penn site until they get the deal they are looking for, same as they did with the Bloomberg site. And they can do it because that property has no debt. (Roth's words)

Also, they again clarified what's happening at Penn:


https://www.investing.com/news/transcrip...5-sees-eps-beat-stock-rises-93CH-4025485

05/06/2025

Steve Borenstein, Executive Vice President and Corporation Counsel, Vornado Realty Trust2:
So I guess just following up to some of these questions around Penn District and apartments versus office. I mean, what do you think is the next project that Vornado pursues in the Penn District? Like is it apartments because it’s smaller versus Penn 15? Or how should we think about that?

And also in the same vein, your thoughts federal government getting involved with the planning of Penn Station and how that might impact you?


Steven Roth, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Vornado Realty Trust: We’re not going to pregame what we’re doing by announcing today what the mix of apartment. We’ll do that when we actually start to do something that’s a real project we will notify the market. We’ve already said that we are focused on doing a small apartment project on Eighth Avenue and 34th Street on a piece of land, a smallish piece of land we own there. So that’s in the works. Otherwise we will announce development starts when they start.

.....Steven Roth, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Vornado Realty Trust:
So when you walk down there now, what we’ve done on Seventh Avenue, what we’ve done with the buildings, all the granite that we put in the sidewalk, the Moynihan Train Station is spectacular. The train hall is spectacular. The Long Island Railroad too. So the Penn District looks a lot different today than it did five years ago and we’re pretty proud of that.

Anybody that wants to come in and help us finish the job below ground, basically we own all of the above ground. But the governments and the railroads own the below ground. Anybody that wants to help us fix that, we’re in favor of.

If he doesn't know already (and he should), he's going to learn what everyone else already knows about the workings of Penn.

[ChiND]

Penn should be fixed properly, which means that the oldest (or among the oldest) and worst arenas in the NHL and NBA must go. Considering that we give Israel billions of dollars per year, the federal government can certainly spend $10b or whatever it takes to fix this mess. We’ve given Israel over $20b in the past two years. DC should give NY, which sends more money to Washington than it receives, the $7-9b that it needs. Also, the government plans to spend around $9b in Union Station, which gets a tiny fraction of the passengers that Penn does.

https://midtownsouthcc.org/blogs/rethink...ions-and-spares-neighborhood-demolition/

MTA (in conjunction with Amtrak and NJTransit) demonstrated, in an unprecedented statement, that MSG is “incompatible” with Penn Station. The MTA is right about that but is strangely mum on the safety and logistical problems arising from MSG’s pillars resting on the station’s train platforms if MSG stays in place. The pillars impede the reconfiguration of tracks needed for an appropriate commuter rail network, including one centered on “through-running,” the global standard for commuter rail in peer international and domestic cities like London and Paris. The MSG pillars prevent the widening of platforms, stairways, and escalators so critical to public safety…

[montydawg]

Through running means chaos at NJ Transit and/or LIRR would affect each other, instead of potentially being isolated from one another. I believe through running works only if the train enters the station and then continues a route in the opposite direction, which means LIRR and NJTransit would either have to combine operations or run on each other’s turf. Sounds like capacity will increase significantly but some major changes would be needed for funding to make it work well.

[ChiND]

That’s a relatively easy problem to solve. We’ll know soon enough if President Trump is committed to truly fixing this mess and spending as much on Penn, as on Israel or on Union Station, an utterly insignificant train hub.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by ChiND

To finally have a great new station and a great new arena would be amazing. I hope that President Trump makes it happen.

That’s a relatively easy problem to solve. We’ll know soon enough if President Trump is committed to truly fixing this mess and spending as much on Penn, as on Israel or on Union Station, an utterly insignificant train hub.

I don't know why you keep talking so flatteringly like this about Dump's involvement. You seem to be a fan even you've never overtly said as much. The extent of his interest is 50% extortion/coercion/humiliation of the governors and politicians of the epicenter of liberal blue state governance and 50% his almost guaranteed shallow grandiose desire, regardless of the extent of the Penn improvements, to have something renamed in his "honor". You're being conned by a master con-man.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by NYguy

^ The guys an idiot for using talking points. He knows better. The City is not going to create another superblock to move MSG west.

You mean east right?

And you keep mentioning the superblock thing as if that's an absolute requirement for an easterly relocated MSG, and spoken with an absolutism that I don't see any reason for believing. What makes you think even if MSG did want to move across the street the city would torpedo the whole thing because they didn't want to have a single block of 33 St de-mapped? I don't understand why you're so convinced of that.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by ChiND

That’s a relatively easy problem to solve. We’ll know soon enough if President Trump is committed to truly fixing this mess and spending as much on Penn, as on Israel or on Union Station, an utterly insignificant train hub.

I know this isn't the politics thread, but the odds of something notable happening on the Amtrak portion of Penn in the next 3.7 years is a big fat zero. There's no way in hell the Real World dude is gonna do anything for transit. He is actively trying to gut transit (and biking and walking).

Excluding the MSG issues, Penn isn't difficult. The station needs a massive increase in track capacity, which will cost billions. Penn South isn't happening under current administration. Thru-running is a sideshow, and not happening if Jesus himself were in charge. NJ Transit isn't merging with the MTA, which is the only way thru-running would have the slightest chance.

The story will continue in Jan. 2029.

[ChiND]

We’ll know soon enough what we’re getting.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by ChiND

Penn should be fixed properly, which means that the oldest (or among the oldest) and worst arenas in the NHL and NBA must go. Considering that we give Israel billions of dollars per year, the federal government can certainly spend $10b or whatever it takes to fix this mess. We’ve given Israel over $20b in the past two years. DC should give NY, which sends more money to Washington than it receives, the $7-9b that it needs. Also, the government plans to spend around $9b in Union Station, which gets a tiny fraction of the passengers that Penn does.

https://midtownsouthcc.org/blogs/rethink...ions-and-spares-neighborhood-demolition/

Originally Posted by ChiND

That’s a relatively easy problem to solve. We’ll know soon enough if President Trump is committed to truly fixing this mess and spending as much on Penn, as on Israel or on Union Station, an utterly insignificant train hub.

I'll say this once more. Leave your stupid political talking points out of the discussion. The FEDS have taking over the rebuilding of Penn, and will be the sole party paying for whatever they do. Don't think for a minute that they are going to wast billions more on a boondoggle that has nothing to do with Penn Station.

People can disagree on what should or shouldn't happen at Penn Station, but there is only 1 set of facts. And the people who have been in charge of the process know what those facts are, which is why they arrived at the point they have. No amount of political bending is going to change those facts.

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

You mean east right?

And you keep mentioning the superblock thing as if that's an absolute requirement for an easterly relocated MSG,

You don't understand the way the city operates. For one thing, the location of MSG on the current superblock is inadequate for its needs, both internally and externally. It's not going to happen, especially on a single block, which is why NOBODY is even suggesting that could happen. So let it go already.

[ChiND]

We’ll soon know if we’re getting nothing or something transformational.



GrandPennAlliance



versus mierda per se!

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by NYguy

You don't understand the way the city operates. For one thing, the location of MSG on the current superblock is inadequate for its needs, both internally and externally. It's not going to happen, especially on a single block, which is why NOBODY is even suggesting that could happen. So let it go already.

The. Complex. Could. Be. Designed. To. SPAN 33 St.

Thus no "superblock". Don't know why you can't let your absolute assurance to the contrary go.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

The. Complex. Could. Be. Designed. To. SPAN 33 St.

Thus no "superblock". Don't know why you can't let your absolute assurance to the contrary go.

Because I know how the City works. They'd create a superblock before doing that. But hold on to your dream.


Now, I've had to clean up a lot of mess, so unless you' people are posting something related to 15 Penn, keep it moving. If you want to follow the foolish dream of moving MSG, you can at least do that in the Penn Station thread.

[ChiND]

If we don’t get a new MSG on this site and on the contiguous block to the north, I hope that at least the city incentivizes Vornado to redevelop the Tartarus-like block to the north as residential and uses eminent domain to acquire the few disgusting sites that Vornado does not own.

Twin, thousand-foot towers with apartments, hotel, and some office space would be nice to replace the utterly vile block on the east side of 7th between 33rd and 34th. Because it’s so execrable, I must look away from it in horror whenever I’m in the area much like the figures on Bernini’s Fountain of the Four Rivers look away from Borromini’s Church on the Piazza Navona.

This disgusting block induces a feeling that's the opposite of Stendahl Syndrome.

I assume that the purchaser of this McDonald’s is a Vornado-controlled entity.

https://traded.co/deals/new-york/retail/sale/429-seventh-avenue-3/




https://a836-acris.nyc.gov/DS/DocumentSearch/BBLResult

[NYguy]

There’s already a plan in place for that block.

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by NYguy

There’s already a plan in place for that block.

Is it a Vornado plan to build offices on the sites they own? If so, that doesn’t sound promising for many reasons, the least of which is that they don’t own some key sites, and the state wouldn’t exercise its eminent domain powers for an office site. It seems that under Simone’s residential proposal, however, the state would exercise its eminent domain powers.

Redeveloping that abysmal block is a key to gentrifying this presently putrid area.

… The new vision will still see buildings being demolished, with businesses potentially displaced, including the popular Irish sports bars The Celtic Rail, Féile and Stout along W33rd Street.

https://w42st.com/post/reimagining-penn-...d-alternative-to-abandoned-vornado-plan/

[SamLYNY]

Originally Posted by ChiND

Redeveloping that abysmal block is a key to gentrifying this presently putrid area.

Did the sidewalk there offend you personally? Or did it just trip you up on the way to Moynihan?

Sure, it’s no postcard, but calling it putrid is a touch dramatic. Let’s see what happens when 15 Penn rises, that stretch might feel less like an afterthought and more like prime Midtown momentum. Hopefully it'll be site 5's 1 Penn east to follow...


Now I'm almost certain most of us are hoping for a redesign, and as it has already been said, with the recent buzz, perhaps some of it will spill over onto 15...Vornado has been closing significant deals at Penn 1 and Penn 11 lately. Samsung just expanded into 71,000 sq ft at Penn 1

https://commercialobserver.com/2025/06/samsung-doubles-penn-1-offices-to-71k-sf/

And Apple took another 61,000 sq ft at Penn 11, bringing its total there to nearly half a million square feet. That kind of lease activity backs up the narrative.

https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2024/11/26/apple-leases-more-office-space-in-vornados-penn-11/



https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d03a0...759a1c0f93a1434fa67a4e22a7c4bf96~mv2.jpg

[NYguy]

The Penn District is already paying off for Vornado. But they don’t feel any pressure to rush things, and are waiting for what they see as the best deal.




JUNE 8, 2025