[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[beyeas]

So I guess those of us in Halifax should have thrown up a big fuss in the press when central nova got a rec centre from the same fund. Apparently they should have paved my street with it instead.

Funny part is that if people in Halifax HAD complained when rural regions got money for things, rural areas would have told us to mind our own business and not try and bully another region. What is good for the goose is quite apparently not good for the gander.

[someone123]

Another aspect of reality often ignored is that most of the far-flung complaining counties are very small compared to the central part of the province. Probably most of them don't even know how small a place like Yarmouth really is compared to Halifax. More than half of people in NS live within an hour drive or so of the Nova Centre. Fair infrastructure spending would see most money spent around the HRM and adjacent counties.

Traditionally this hasn't happened and Halifax has been under-funded compared to other parts of NS (provincially) and other cities in Canada (federally). The NS government has historically been hell-bent on propping up rural areas that have declined despite huge subsidy, and the feds don't give money to Halifax because the city and province can't get it together to match funds and because they feel we're already covered with transfers to the province.

[halifaxboyns]

This is probably going to be a growing issue as time passes. With more and more Canadians choosing to live in major urban areas (large towns or cities) there is going to be a growing divide on issues of infrastructures. As small outports like Yarmouth (or Canso) decline or final reach zero population - rural areas will continue to fight to get some investment. The problem the government will have is trying to decide 'is it worth spending the money on someplace that is slowly dying'. I hate to say it; but personally if these places fail or disappear, then that says something about that place. I guess I'm a rational person with a slight bias because I grew up in the City.

On the other side though; there was a very interesting story on the CBC about Leamington - that it was turning into a city where people were moving to; in order to retire. I wonder if any of these places could turn themselves into a town or city like Leamington and become a retirement haven?

[spaustin]

The urban/rural divide is really magnified by our Westminister parliamentary system. Urban areas tend to be under represented compared to rural areas, which encourages politicians to cater to rural agendas at the expense of urban ones. It's pretty much the same across the country, from here all the way out to BC and Alberta. Federally the same situation is generally at play. What will be interesting for us in the decades ahead is how the dynamic changes as Nova Scotia slowly becomes a city-state. It'll be harder to ignore the needs and priorities of Halifax as the rural areas continue to depopulate and Halifax approaches or exceeds 50% of the provincial population.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

On the other side though; there was a very interesting story on the CBC about Leamington - that it was turning into a city where people were moving to; in order to retire. I wonder if any of these places could turn themselves into a town or city like Leamington and become a retirement haven?

I can see the Amherst region becoming this. The town and villages along the Northumberland Shore are gradually growing due to retirees moving into their cottages permnamently which will increase traffic through the community and ultimately make it a larger commercial draw.

BTW I looked it up and HRM, Hants, Truro (CA), Lunenburg, and Kings County (all within one hour of Urban Halifax) have a 2006 population of 566'000 or approximately 62% of the provincial population. In provincial ridings that area is in 28 of 52 seats or 53.84% of our representation in Province House. Since the province itself is not growing there should be a shift of 4 seats from rural areas to the Halifax region.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

I can see the Amherst region becoming this. The town and villages along the Northumberland Shore are gradually growing due to retirees moving into their cottages permnamently which will increase traffic through the community and ultimately make it a larger commercial draw.

BTW I looked it up and HRM, Hants, Truro (CA), Lunenburg, and Kings County (all within one hour of Urban Halifax) have a 2006 population of 566'000 or approximately 62% of the provincial population. In provincial ridings that area is in 28 of 52 seats or 53.84% of our representation in Province House. Since the province itself is not growing there should be a shift of 4 seats from rural areas to the Halifax region.

That's a very interesting statistic. I've been wondering as we get closer and closer to what i've nicknamed 'the big retirement' (once we really see the boomers start retiring) if Nova Scotia's population would actually see a reversal and start growing but be because of an influx of people buying into retirement communities?

If that's the case; I am unsure if that's the kind of growth we'd really want to see considering that they would cause an increase burden on health care. But I've noticed that there is definately a directed marketing of cottage country property in Nova Scotia to people out here; I'm seeing way more ads about the cottage country development in the valley (and I suspect that will continue).

Either way; there was an interesting letter from someone in the herald this weekend. She couldn't understand all the big picture thinking (the convention centre and other things) yet why the government failed to fund the ferry from Yarmouth - which would help get people here.

I have to admit, I don't believe it was a bad decision - the fact that the state of Maine didn't want to get anywhere near it and help fund it (to me) was telling. From what I've been able to find (thus far); most ferry systems that run in Canada don't seem to make money - they are break even and rely on Government assistance. Marine Atlantic is a good example as is BC Ferries. While I appreciate the NDP's position (and the fact the Province doesn't have a lot of $) - I can't help but wonder if we haven't created a system where they can operate and make money? I don't know - but I'd hope it would be operating once Nova Centre opens. It makes getting to Nova Scotia just a little bit easier, I would think?

[Keith P.]

The urban/rural divide is only going to get larger. Retirement to one of these remote little burgs may sound nice at first, but the reality is very different. As you age you need to be close to hospitals and medical resources, you don't want to drive at night, you want people nearby who can assist you, you want to shop close to home... all those things work against retiring to the country. It might work for a few people, but for the majority it is not feasible.

I heard something infuriating on CBC News tonight. A woman from Sydney was going on at length over how the province should buy Holy Angels school in Sydney -- which, BTW, is the poster child for why the education budget needs to be cut. It is falling down, over 100 years old, and has a mere handful of students in attendance. It needs to close. Yet this woman threw out the comment: "What's more important for the government - funding a convention center in Halifax or the education of our children?" Cripes. The politics of division are alive and well in Cape Breton....

[DigitalNinja]

Benefits of the many should always out weight the benefits of the few. Unless you have money to go around.

[halifaxboyns]

Convention centre may bump road projects: Keddy
Last Updated: Monday, January 24, 2011 | 10:47 PM AT Comments0Recommend1.
CBC News
An artist's rendering of what the new Halifax convention centre will look like. (CBC)
A Nova Scotia Conservative MP is warning the provincial government's plan to use money from the Build Canada program for a new convention centre in Halifax will jeopardize other infrastructure projects across the province.

"You can't have your cake and eat it, too," South Shore-St. Margaret's Conservative MP Gerald Keddy said Monday.

"For the province to now ask the federal government to access those funds for a new project and, therefore, put the original projects at risk is irresponsible."

The province has asked federal Transport Minister Chuck Strahl to redirect a part of the Building Canada fund dedicated to Nova Scotia.

But Premier Darrell Dexter said nothing will be sacrificed if Ottawa uses $47 million of infrastructure money as the federal contribution to the proposed $159-million Halifax convention centre.

"We built more roads in the last two years than any government in history. We have set out a road plan and if he [Keddy] thinks it's going to affect roads, he's just wrong," Dexter said.

"We've already set out our plan and we intend to follow through on it."

Keddy said he's not the only Conservative MP in Nova Scotia who's nervous about Ottawa being asked to re-allocate existing funds from the Build Canada program.

"I think it's irresponsible to take existing projects and put them at risk. And I do believe the province should tell the people of Nova Scotia which provincial projects they are willing to put at risk," he said.

The Transportation and Infrastructure Department also released a response to Keddy, saying $57 million from the Build Canada fund is uncommitted and therefore no projects would be put at risk.

Keddy said he's not speaking for the Harper government on the issue.

[Wishblade]

^And if you go to the page itself, once AGAIN, they use the old renderings. Absolutely shameful

[JustinMacD]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I heard something infuriating on CBC News tonight. A woman from Sydney was going on at length over how the province should buy Holy Angels school in Sydney -- which, BTW, is the poster child for why the education budget needs to be cut. It is falling down, over 100 years old, and has a mere handful of students in attendance. It needs to close. Yet this woman threw out the comment: "What's more important for the government - funding a convention center in Halifax or the education of our children?" Cripes. The politics of division are alive and well in Cape Breton....

I saw that too. CBC producers must've loved that.

Most people in Sydney would probably agree with her too. Completely disregard that Holy Angels is a rats nest of an old building in a lousy neighborhood, METRO GETS EVERYTHING. SAVE HOLY ANGELS.

[kwajo]

I don't understand why roads are always looked at as some sort of holy grail of infrastructure spending. "Oh no! This might affect roads! Won't someone please think of the children!?" It's ridiculous. You could have a press conference announcing a billion in new spending on highways and it'd be reported in the press as an "investment", but if you spend a tenth of that on a convention centre or public transit or infrastructure improvements downtown, it's always chastised as a "subsidy".
I know a lot of it comes down to the overwrought influence road contractors have on governments in the Maritimes, but it's been getting ridiculous in the past few years and someone needs to call them out on it.

[JustinMacD]

Originally Posted by kwajo

I don't understand why roads are always looked at as some sort of holy grail of infrastructure spending. "Oh no! This might affect roads! Won't someone please think of the children!?" It's ridiculous. You could have a press conference announcing a billion in new spending on highways and it'd be reported in the press as an "investment", but if you spend a tenth of that on a convention centre or public transit or infrastructure improvements downtown, it's always chastised as a "subsidy".
I know a lot of it comes down to the overwrought influence road contractors have on governments in the Maritimes, but it's been getting ridiculous in the past few years and someone needs to call them out on it.

I saw yesterday on CBC that something like 3M of our tax money went to some hospital study to study brainwaves and it's link to autism or something.

You never see CBC asking "questions of the day" like "Do you approve of your tax money being spent on health studies?". It's always related to the convention center.

[DigitalNinja]

That's because it would be "politically incorrect" someone would take offense to it and pull out the discrimination card.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by JustinMacD

I saw yesterday on CBC that something like 3M of our tax money went to some hospital study to study brainwaves and it's link to autism or something.

You never see CBC asking "questions of the day" like "Do you approve of your tax money being spent on health studies?". It's always related to the convention center.

Ummm FYI, I am directly involved in that project, and was in fact one of the two people to fly to Helsinki to convince that company to set up their Canadian research division in Halifax.

For the tax dollars spent, the IWK hospital gets a leading edge instrument that is not just for research but is used for clinical care at a fraction of list price. The only other cities in Canada where you can get this scan are Montreal, Toronto & Vancouver. Add in the fact that as part of getting this instrument at a fraction of the price, the company is setting up their Canadian research office here in Halifax, and their people will work here alongside the people in my lab specifically to do to commercializable research that will have economic benefits to the region. Furthermore, it is not just the research-based and economic benefits, but patients themselves are already benefitting (we commissioned the instrument a year ago) directly in terms of, for example, pre-surgical mapping of epileptic spikes. We can do in one hour (at a cost of $300/h) what it takes typically 1-2 day of in-patient time in a neurology ward at a mammoth cost to medicare.

It is not, as you said, $3M for "a study", it was $3M from a combination of federal funds, provincial funds, and investment from an international biotech company to purchase an instrument and build a facility that will benefit not only neuroscience research but clinical care for Atlantic Canadian kids, all while generating economic spin-offs from product development and jobs created through the hiring of highly skilled personnel.

Asking over-simplified questions like "Do you approve of your tax money being spent on health studies?" are fundamentally flawed regardless, in the exact same way that asking a similar question about the convention centre like "Do you approve of your tax money being spend on a convention centre rather than roads" is fundamentally flawed. They both look sneeringly only at the costs to tax payers while ignoring the other side of the equation.

You overall point is valid (i.e. the CBC/Q104 etc ask loaded questions with flawed methodology), but you happened to choose the decidely wrong example to make it with.

[someone123]

Yeah, these dilemmas are oversimplified and bear little resemblance to reality. Busing a few kids to a larger school (that probably has a wider variety of programs etc.) is not equivalent to failing to educate all children in NS.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by beyeas

Ummm FYI, I am directly involved in that project, and was in fact one of the two people to fly to Helsinki to convince that company to set up their Canadian research division in Halifax.

For the tax dollars spent, the IWK hospital gets a leading edge instrument that is not just for research but is used for clinical care at a fraction of list price. The only other cities in Canada where you can get this scan are Montreal, Toronto & Vancouver. Add in the fact that as part of getting this instrument at a fraction of the price, the company is setting up their Canadian research office here in Halifax, and their people will work here alongside the people in my lab specifically to do to commercializable research that will have economic benefits to the region. Furthermore, it is not just the research-based and economic benefits, but patients themselves are already benefitting (we commissioned the instrument a year ago) directly in terms of, for example, pre-surgical mapping of epileptic spikes. We can do in one hour (at a cost of $300/h) what it takes typically 1-2 day of in-patient time in a neurology ward at a mammoth cost to medicare.

I read about this in the allnovascotia.com. Halifax is certainly lucky to be getting this medical equipment and the research jobs.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I read about this in the allnovascotia.com. Halifax is certainly lucky to be getting this medical equipment and the research jobs.

I'm actually surprised there hasn't been more of them to be honest. Dal is one of the leading research universities in the country (from what i've read) and it would make sense that there be more investment like this.

As to roads - many a political fortune has been made thanks to paving a road in this province. Sad, but true.

Someone on the CBC posted something which has gotten me thinking. Someone said that it seemed suspicious that Keddy was making such negative comments which hinted that McKay had already made a decision to support the project and that this way it made it sound like they were covering all basis. Not everyone happy but still going ahead. I'm wondering what everyone else thinks on this?

[Keith P.]

Keddy is an extremely crass politician (most are, but he is in the upper echelon), so I think he is just pandering for votes from his constituency, which is largely made up of those who would not support the CC regardless and for whom the "they're taking money away from our ROADS" line has great appeal. I would not put much stock in his position, and his colleagues in the party generally ignore him.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I read about this in the allnovascotia.com. Halifax is certainly lucky to be getting this medical equipment and the research jobs.

Thanks!