The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[Nouvellecosse]

Yes the range is much poorer than the Bolt. Range may not be an issue with urban cars in Europe where rail travel is abundant for medium intercity trips, but here a city car that just stays in the city isn't really a thing except for households who want and can afford two or more vehicles. We just don't have strong enough regional and intercity transit options.

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Perfect car for an urban environment. It would need a new name in North America though.

As someone who grew up in a rural area, I never bought into the notion that you need a big vehicle once you leave the city. It looks perfectly reasonable for rural areas to me.

[Nouvellecosse]

It's not so much that you need a big vehicle once you leave the city. It's more that you need a small vehicle once you enter the city. Well, maybe not "need" but greatly benefit from in terms of parking, maneuverability etc. (assuming it's a dense urban city).

[theman23]

Where exactly did you guys hear the Honda e would be coming to North America?

[Truenorth00]

Remember when I said there's a real chance some of these big automakers could be in serious trouble? As predicted, Japanese automakers are taking a beating in China due to EV competition.

Japan's automakers have a made-in-China sales crisis

TOKYO, May 2 (Reuters) - Japan's automakers are facing a sales crisis in China, data shows, as a rapid shift to electric vehicles (EVs) has upended the world's largest auto market and led to a plunge in purchases of gasoline-powered cars.

Total sales of Japanese auto brands in China were down 32% year-on-year in the first quarter, more than double the pace of the overall market contraction, industry data analysed by Reuters showed.
...
Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T) has said its go-slow approach to all-electric cars protects consumer choice, but the strategy is costing sales in China, analysts say.

"Japan is the biggest loser of the price war so far," said Bill Russo, founder and CEO of Automobility, a Shanghai-based consultancy.

"As EVs get more affordable, they become more attractive to the core buyers who have been resisting so far, the buyers of foreign brands. So, you can see the writing is on the wall."

Japan's share of car sales in China slumped to 18.5% in the first quarter, down from 24% in 2020, industry data from the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers analysed by Reuters showed.

Toyota and its luxury brand Lexus posted a 14.5% drop in first-quarter sales, company data showed.

"We need to increase our speed and efforts to firmly meet the customer expectations in the Chinese market," Toyota CEO Koji Sato said in an interview last month.

Nissan Motor Co Ltd (7201.T) posted a 45.8% drop in China sales and Mazda Motor Corp (7261.T) sales were down 66.5% in the first quarter. Honda Motor Co Ltd (7267.T) had a 38.2% drop, industry data showed.
...
Japanese automakers built their reputation on factors like durability, but the shift in China shows the draw of lower-priced electric cars and new offerings based on software, said Masatoshi Nishimoto, principal research analyst at S&P Global Mobility in Tokyo.

"Japanese automakers could face a similar struggle in the United States as in China," he said.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...is-2023-05-02/

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Remember when I said there's a real chance some of these big automakers could be in serious trouble? As predicted, Japanese automakers are taking a beating in China due to EV competition.



https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...is-2023-05-02/

Of course. China steals the tech by forcing foreign automakers to go into joint ventures with local companies. That’s why we should block any sales from Chinese automakers in our domestic markets.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Of course. China steals the tech by forcing foreign automakers to go into joint ventures with local companies. That’s why we should block any sales from Chinese automakers in our domestic markets.

What tech are they stealing in this case? The Japanese are behind on EVs. By their own admission they are losing to Chinese EVs. This was long predicted and warned about by analysts. The Japanese government and auto sector bet big on hydrogen and hybrids and was non-committal on EVs. The Chinese automakers bet big on EVs. The results speaks for themselves.

I'd normally agree with you on Chinese IP theft. Not the case here.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Of course. China steals the tech by forcing foreign automakers to go into joint ventures with local companies. That’s why we should block any sales from Chinese automakers in our domestic markets.

The fact that Tesla was not required to do this remains remarkable.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

The fact that Tesla was not required to do this remains remarkable.

They still benefit a ton. I am sure a whole lot of Tesla China and its supply chain alumni have helped the Chinese EV sector. They saw Tesla as a seed of innovation.

[SpongeG]

Japan really dropped the ball on the whole EV thing.

[Truenorth00]

People didn't believe me when I said companies like Toyota may not survive. China is a major market. If the same happens in the US and Europe they'll be finished. This is how it happens.

The problem is that they thought they'd have decades. The transition is now happening in years. In some places EV marketshare goes up a percent per month.

[urbandreamer]

Most of Tesla's Chinese competitors are creating knockoffs of the Model 3 & Y, interiors included. That's why I'm not a fan - When have the Chinese truly invented something new embraced the world over? Smartphones, computers, software, touchscreens, ICE & electric vehicles, architecture etc: all stolen or copied IP. Japan and South Korea are/were similar - a history of imitation, bland design. Maybe the Sony Walkman and CD player, but really these were just repackaged cassette/record players. (Kia/Hyundai finally started producing attractively designed cars when they hired a German, Peter Shreyer, formerly of VW MK4 Golf/Audi TT fame. His replacement, Luc Donckerwolke, is Belgian. Japan's best-looking cars have been mostly designed by Americans in California.)

That small BYD ev is awkwardly proportioned and apparently doesn't meet North American safety standards. Do they have reliable, innovative OTA software updates or are they stealing Tesla's ideas on the cheap?

Toyota, unlike Chinese competitors, is actually innovating with hybrid and hydrogen tech, which will probably replace dirty battery tech in the long run. The masses will soon have hundreds of EV models to choose from, Toyota included. They're masters of copying NA technology and improving on quality so will survive.

More concerning is Tesla's next 5 years: a moderately refreshed Model 3/Y (think 1992 Ford Taurus - disappointing sales vs the revolutionary 1986 design), a polarizing CyberTruck, a somewhat useless Semi, a dated slow-selling Model S/X, with the only new car being a smaller, less profitable Model 2 and a van.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Toyota, unlike Chinese competitors, is actually innovating with hybrid and hydrogen tech, which will probably replace dirty battery tech in the long run. The masses will soon have hundreds of EV models to choose from, Toyota included. They're masters of copying NA technology and improving on quality so will survive.

More concerning is Tesla's next 5 years: a moderately refreshed Model 3/Y (think 1992 Ford Taurus - disappointing sales vs the revolutionary 1986 design), a polarizing CyberTruck, a somewhat useless Semi, a dated slow-selling Model S/X, with the only new car being a smaller, less profitable Model 2 and a van.

You're well within your rights to have these opinions, they just fly in the face of reality.

H2 has been "just a few years away" for decades. The infrastructure challenges are immense. We'll be using some kind of solid state battery made from discarded water bottles before clean H2.

As for Tesla's growth, they have been growing deliveries around 50% per year and guiding the same for the next few years (even out to 2030 but I don't buy that quite yet).

[SpongeG]

I had never heard of this car company Ssangyong from Korea but it has been around for a long time. They recently changed their name to KG Mobility and will start to sell EV's in Europe but no word on North America. Korea also has cars from Samsung, My BF has family members there who drive a Samsung vehicle. There is talk there that LG will be working/partnering on the car coming from Apple.

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[Nouvellecosse]

^ Looks very Jeep-like

[MonkeyRonin]

This should make many of us here happy: https://slate.com/business/2023/04/c...n-hyundai.html

[SpongeG]

yes, I watched a lot of review videos when the Ioniq 5 came out and they all pretty much were happy with buttons and nobs. Also have heard many complaints about how hard simple tasks in a Tesla can be as you have to navigate back and forth on the screen and a simple button would be much quicker.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

This should make many of us here happy: https://slate.com/business/2023/04/c...n-hyundai.html

It’s pretty telling this was always a cost cutting exercise when Elon Musk’s go to defence was “well the car basically drives itself so it’s OK that we ship it with a shitty control interface”.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

You're well within your rights to have these opinions, they just fly in the face of reality.

H2 has been "just a few years away" for decades. The infrastructure challenges are immense. We'll be using some kind of solid state battery made from discarded water bottles before clean H2.

As for Tesla's growth, they have been growing deliveries around 50% per year and guiding the same for the next few years (even out to 2030 but I don't buy that quite yet).

H2 will probably never be used for cars. H2 has huge potential usage in industry, though, with tasks like fertilizer production, steel milling, metal refining, etc.

It might also be used for vehicles like heavy farm equipment or space launch rockets where battery electric doesn't really work (but for those, I think biofuels or synthetic methane are more likely).

[homebucket]

How do y'all like the new EQE? Haven't really seen them around yet I think, or maybe I have, but it's hard to distinguish it from the EQS quite frankly.

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