NEW YORK | 175 Park Avenue (Grand Hyatt) | 1,575 FT | 86 FLOORS

[chris08876]

They are pointing towards One Vandys success for this. Folks are willing to pay the $/sqft.

Demand should be there for this tower as clients seek to transition from older NYC office stock (which there is plenty of, older, not new office space).

[ChiND]

Originally Posted by NYguy

It will only be built because of demand.

That’s good news. It seems like major office towers (1m sf+) in Chicago and other cities are on ice. I hope that this will be built.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by ChiND

That’s good news. It seems like major office towers in Chicago and other cities are on ice. I hope that this will be built.

The problem with New York is that they haven’t stayed on top of demand. That’s why you see new developments like Manhattan West and the other Hudson Yards towers filled up so quickly. In east Midtown, there was basically no new ground up office space before One Vanderbilt. And post-pandemic, these new office towers are what’s in demand. So while there’s overall a lot of vacancy, it’s in the old buildings that nobody wants. These companies moving into the newer, much more expensive towers are willing and able to do so. They want the best that’s available, and it’s up to the developers and landlords, and even the city (through zoning) to make that possible.

[NYguy]

https://nypost.com/2023/10/27/real-e...-in-manhattan/

Developers are betting on the future of NYC with huge new office towers

By Lois Weiss
Published Oct. 27, 2023

...On the other side of Grand Central Terminal, TF Cornerstone, RXR, MSD Capital and Hyatt are pitching the nearly 3 million-square-foot 175 Park Ave. which will include 2.1 million square feet of offices and rise 1,575 feet tall on land leased by Hyatt (which will have a 500-room hotel there). The project isn’t expected to open until the end of the decade or longer. To put into perspective, the top of the nearby One Vanderbilt’s spire is 1,401 feet high.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by NYguy

https://nypost.com/2023/10/27/real-e...-in-manhattan/

Developers are betting on the future of NYC with huge new office towers

By Lois Weiss
Published Oct. 27, 2023

Of all the proposals, I sure hope this one is built. I am less optimistic about the others, like 15 Penn and even 350 Park Ave in their current form, but sure hope this one makes it with no more revisions.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by DCReid

Of all the proposals, I sure hope this one is built. I am less optimistic about the others, like 15 Penn and even 350 Park Ave in their current form, but sure hope this one makes it with no more revisions.

350 Park Avenue currently has a tenant, one that will take most of the tower. While this tower will also certainly be built, and it has a tenant of sorts (Hyatt), 350 is "ahead" in the tenant game, as far as we know at least.

[streetscaper]

It will certainly be built but will it still have this height and design. Hopefully, but you never know, so it's best not to get too confident and get your hopes way too high

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by streetscaper

It will certainly be built but will it still have this height and design. Hopefully, but you never know, so it's best not to get too confident and get your hopes way too high

Why wouldn’tvit be built as designed? Every indication is that tower moving forward will be built. It would be silly to worry about it not moving forward as planned without any specific evidence why it would not.

I think too often people reach for things to be concerned about. Just be content with what you know.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Why wouldn’tvit be built as designed? Every indication is that tower moving forward will be built. It would be silly to worry about it not moving forward as planned without any specific evidence why it would not.

I think too often people reach for things to be concerned about. Just be content with what you know.

We will just have to wait...Remember that 1 Vanderbilt was supposed to be 1501 tall but the height was changed right before construction started to 1401, and 3 WTC had a different bracing design and four fins that were removed before construction...With inflation, the longer the delay, the bigger risk of changes to reduce the building costs...I sure hope no more changes are made, major ones at least...

[streetscaper]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Why wouldn’tvit be built as designed? Every indication is that tower moving forward will be built. It would be silly to worry about it not moving forward as planned without any specific evidence why it would not.

I think too often people reach for things to be concerned about. Just be content with what you know.

Because One Vandy's height was cut just before construction began
Because Tour Verre had a height cut before construction began
Because 345 Madison Ave, also right next to Grand Central, is on hold
Because 15 Penn, right next to Penn, is on hold
Because 3WTC had a design change during construction
Because 350 Park Ave's design has changed
Because 45 Broad Street's design has changed
Because 625 Fulton's design has changed
Because 80 Flatbush's height was shortened and design changed
Because....
Because...
Because...

Because there is soooo much precedence for height and design changes in recent NY development history, and we are now traversing higher development costs due to inflation and higher interest rates, unforeseen during the design phase of this tower.

I'm still very hopeful, I'm just not completely confident, no one should be.

[Ahoi]

Just think positive, sometimes that helps. Maybe next year around this time the old hotel will be demolished. And even if it's going to be cut by 100 feet, so be it. I don't worry about that because it's in the best location in the whole city.

As long as the hotel is still open, I wait and enjoy my tea on my outdoor terrace.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by DCReid

We will just have to wait...Remember that 1 Vanderbilt was supposed to be 1501 tall but the height was changed right before construction started to 1401, and 3 WTC had a different bracing design and four fins that were removed before construction...With inflation, the longer the delay, the bigger risk of changes to reduce the building costs...I sure hope no more changes are made, major ones at least...

One Vanderbilt was originally going to be about 1,300 ft, and got higher as they worked through the design process. It was never supposed to be 1,500 tall, but that number was introduced during the approvals process as the tower was still being designed. It's not a smaller tower, but the exact size of the floorplates determined how tall it would be, that's why it has fewer floors.

However, 175 Park had settled on the 1,575 ft figure by the time the approvals process was complete. Also, they have since repeatedly said the hieght would be 1,575 ft tall since that process was complete. There is NO reason to speculate or think it would be anything otherwise, and it makes no sense to do so until there is.

[streetscaper]

Originally Posted by DCReid

We will just have to wait...Remember that 1 Vanderbilt was supposed to be 1501 tall but the height was changed right before construction started to 1401, and 3 WTC had a different bracing design and four fins that were removed before construction...With inflation, the longer the delay, the bigger risk of changes to reduce the building costs...I sure hope no more changes are made, major ones at least...

I didn't see that you had wrote this before I posted but we had the same exact thoughts.

I absolutely agree. Height and design changes happen all the time and they are not at all infrequent, and they happen whether or not we had a particular reason (specific to the building in question) to speculate beforehand.

Be hopeful, but there are NEVER any guarantees in NY real estate (as we've seen time and again in the past), especially in the very dynamic period we're in now.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by streetscaper

I didn't see that you had wrote this before I posted but we had the same exact thoughts.

I absolutely agree. Height and design changes happen all the time and they are not at all infrequent, and they happen whether or not we had a particular reason (specific to the building in question) to speculate beforehand.

For sure, there are height changes, mostly minor. As you can see in some places, they can be significant. And by the way, there can be increases as well. People don’t want to admit that part, but most of the supertall towers built in New York City at least, were at some point shorter than they are.

But that’s all besides the point. The fact that the “possibility” of a height change can happen anywhere doesn’t mean we hop into every single goddam thread in this forum to suggests there will be - ESPECIALLY without any evidence on a particular project to suggest so. I know there are regular forum members who like to do so (they pop in from time to time), but until we have even a suggestion, let’s stop pulling this nonsense out of our a$$es. These threads have working titles for a reason. When you click on a thread, if there is a height given, it’s what’s in the title. If there is information to change it, we will.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by NYguy

For sure, there are height changes, mostly minor. As you can see in some places, they can be significant. And by the way, there can be increases as well. People don’t want to admit that part, but most of the supertall towers built in New York City at least, were at some point shorter than they are.

CPT and I think Steinway were increased but many others did get downsized a bit (Tower Verre / 30HY / 3WTC / 1V) etc.

1,575' is the max allowable for this site though right? Does this count parapets or just solid roof?

A ways back in this thread it was determined that the current version of this tower is 1,566' or 477 meters (just shy of the 1,575' envelope). I'd be totally happy with that height but hope it doesn't end up shorter.

[HyperPower]

Stop being Debbie Downers.
... added a spire so the height ceiling is shattered. Sorry FAA!

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by HyperPower

Stop being Debbie Downers.
... added a spire so the height ceiling is shattered. Sorry FAA!

Wouldn't that be sweet. Maybe they are planning it in secret like they did with the Chrysler building! We could only wish...

(completion for the world tallest title) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Building

[HyperPower]

Originally Posted by DCReid

Wouldn't that be sweet. Maybe they are planning it in secret like they did with the Chrysler building! We could only wish...

(completion for the world tallest title) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Building

This tower is screaming for a spire, it looks like SOM designed 175 Park with one in mind then chopped it off last minute

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

CPT and I think Steinway were increased but many others did get downsized a bit (Tower Verre / 30HY / 3WTC / 1V) etc.

30 HY was originally supposed to be a shorter tower. One Vanderbilt as well (mentioned above). CPT, Steinway, 270 Park, BT, 432 Park, 520 5th all were at one time planned to be shorter towers. Even the ESB was at one time planned to be a shorter building. But none of that matters. Because we know any proposal can change at any time. We don't harp on that in every single thread on this forum because it makes no sense to until we have the facts to suggests that something will change. We know what we know until it changes. Bottom line, it makes no sense to harp on it here, short of any factual information.

[BXFrank]

Spire, no spire, slight height cut I’m still excited, at ground level it complements 1 Vanderbilt and the Grand Central area with the much needed redevelopment. this and 2 WTC been on top of my wish list, with all these new towers going up, I’m definitely paying more visits to the city for pics.