Circuit of the Americas Development Updates

[turn1]

Originally Posted by the Genral

I posted that I was disappointed and embarrassed about the attendance at the Indy race. Well did anyone see all the empty seats at TMS's NASCAR race today? What the heck is going on? I attended the first 4 NASCAR Winston Cup races there on rather cold cloudy days and there were very few seats without butts in them and that included the seating along the back straight away which are no longer there or used. Maybe its just older fans like me don't know who most of the drivers are anymore and there's no one to root for. I'm starting to realize it isn't just the lack of fan support at COTA, its a decline that's widespread. MotoGP in a few weeks should fill the stands, but I'm curious to see if there is an attendance drop from last year. We'll know in a few weeks.

Yeah racing attendance is generally in decline, but it seems especially true in NASCAR. That just highlights the need for better promotion though. You still have some big GPs and other races that offer a big value for the fans and still consistently do very well - Montreal, Melbourne, Mexico City, Spa, Suzuka, Singapore, Silverstone, Bathurst, Le Mans, Indy, Daytona, etc...

MotoGP has avoided the decline pretty well by offering such an amazing product, but filling even just the permanent stands at COTA would be a first for them.

[The ATX]

I was suspicious of this when I was checking on some permits, but I thought there must have been some admin stuff going on behind the scenes between COTA and the City. Epstein just gets slimier.

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...its/1909686457

[turn1]

Originally Posted by The ATX

I was suspicious of this when I was checking on some permits, but I thought there must have been some admin stuff going on behind the scenes between COTA and the City. Epstein just gets slimier.

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...its/1909686457

Indeed.

LOL. These guys ...

I remember hearing that someone had screwed the pooch and failed to get some important permits on time, but I just figured they'd get the city to push it through. It never occurred to me that they'd just say 'fuck it' & build without permits.

Abbott says most of the grandstands were built off-site and then transported to the COTA field.

Ummm ... BULLSHIT. That's not true.

"They have been told to not do work without a permit. They've been told that on several occasions, not just in regards to this project," said Culver, who says she found out about crews working on the stadium in late February and didn't know the extent of the work completed until March.

"We've had a lot of concern about them having the event without completing the permit so we had to make some decisions before that first game on what we would allow them to use or not use," said Culver.

So, COA, when are you gonna do something about it & stop being a doormat? Why give 'em a TCO when they built the place illegally? I guess COTA's above the law. Have been since 2012, so why not now ...

"COTA enjoys a wonderful relationship as it relates to the city, with the AFD, with the police departments, with all the safety organizations," Abbott said. "So we never actually saw this as a big issue."

Read: "We do what we want, legal or not. Fuck errbody." Kinda like when they didn't think it was a big issue to follow the law on their 2018 F1 MERP application, etc, etc ...

They've been doing whatever they want for 8 years. Why stop now...

[We vs us]

Originally Posted by We vs us

Since we don't really have a Southeast Austin thread, dropping this little nug here:



https://atxrealestatenews.com/2019/0...er-for-1-14-19

Confirmation from the Business Journal:

https://www.bizjournals.com/austin/n...-bringing.html

Zoho Corp., a California-based software and information technology company, has selected Austin as its U.S. headquarters and will build a 100,000-square-foot campus on 375 acres on the southeast side of town.

The land near Kellam Road and State Highway 71 that Zoho Corp. purchased ultimately will be home to between 400 and 500 employees, said Raju Vegesna, the company’s president and chief evangelist.

“Quality of life for our employees” was the primary driver behind the decision, Vegesna said. Campus construction is projected to be completed in 2021, he added. About 60 Zoho employees already work in Austin, which is expected to double during the next 12 months. The company last year leased more than 27,000 square feet at Bergstrom Tech Center near the airport, according to ATX Real Estate News.

Austin came out on top after Zoho executives considered several cities, said Vegesna, who has moved to Austin from the San Francisco Bay Area. Less traffic congestion than in Northern California combined with lower cost of living and an excellent talent pool contributed to the decision, he said. Along those lines, Austin was just crowned again by U.S. News & World Report as the best place to live in America.

[freerover]

Originally Posted by We vs us

Confirmation from the Business Journal:

https://www.bizjournals.com/austin/n...-bringing.html

Zoho Corp., a California-based software and information technology company, has selected Austin as its U.S. headquarters and will build a 100,000-square-foot campus on 375 acres on the southeast side of town.

The land near Kellam Road and State Highway 71 that Zoho Corp. purchased ultimately will be home to between 400 and 500 employees, said Raju Vegesna, the company’s president and chief evangelist.

“Quality of life for our employees” was the primary driver behind the decision, Vegesna said. Campus construction is projected to be completed in 2021, he added. About 60 Zoho employees already work in Austin, which is expected to double during the next 12 months. The company last year leased more than 27,000 square feet at Bergstrom Tech Center near the airport, according to ATX Real Estate News.

Austin came out on top after Zoho executives considered several cities, said Vegesna, who has moved to Austin from the San Francisco Bay Area. Less traffic congestion than in Northern California combined with lower cost of living and an excellent talent pool contributed to the decision, he said. Along those lines, Austin was just crowned again by U.S. News & World Report as the best place to live in America.

It'll be along the new frontage rd they're building for the Kellam rd underpass at 71. It'll be really interesting to see how that part of the county develops. The rezone for the Muller like development along 130 is being worked on by the city.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by The ATX

I was suspicious of this when I was checking on some permits, but I thought there must have been some admin stuff going on behind the scenes between COTA and the City. Epstein just gets slimier.

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...its/1909686457

I am shocked. Shocked.

[turn1]

No, I did not make this up. This is actually a thing.

https://twitter.com/ChrisBils/status...30437418242049

Chris Bils
‏@ChrisBils
Fans who bring a farm animal to the Austin Bold FC match next Wednesday will get free admission. A portion of ticket sales will go toward the local 4-H chapter. #USL

[turn1]

Aggy date night. What could possibly go wrong?

[The ATX]

Yee haw night at COTA. A cow? That seems like more trouble than a free ticket is worth.

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by turn1

Aggy date night. What could possibly go wrong?

Sir...I happen to be an Aggie fan, and I have to say...that was pretty darn............Funny

[lzppjb]

Originally Posted by turn1

Aggy date night. What could possibly go wrong?

COTA...where the men are men, and the sheep are scared.

[turn1]

Originally Posted by the Genral

Sir...I happen to be an Aggie fan, and I have to say...that was pretty darn............Funny

[Jdawgboy]

I came across an article just a bit ago about the concerns from MotoGP bikers about the bumps that have popped up all over the track. Several mentioned that they consider the track layout as one of the best but because of all the bumps, they have to be careful and not go as fast as they would like. Supposedly the bumps have been scraped down but that had been tried before and didn't work. Sounds like they need to do a bit more than simply scraping down bumps. They do mention the soil topography as a factor, however regardless of soils shifting, they should have been able to build it in such away that shifting clay soil would be minimized. It's not even that old in terms of track age, they shouldn't be having that bad of a problem so soon. I mean if the Roman Empire could build roads, many that have lasted and are used to this day, then surely they could have done a better job with building the track. Those Roman's knew how to build roads that last..

[lzppjb]

It's been my experience that the ground east of 35 is not great to build on. Roads, houses, whatever. It's softer and tends to shift.

[smith_atx]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

I came across an article just a bit ago about the concerns from MotoGP bikers about the bumps that have popped up all over the track. Several mentioned that they consider the track layout as one of the best but because of all the bumps, they have to be careful and not go as fast as they would like. Supposedly the bumps have been scraped down but that had been tried before and didn't work. Sounds like they need to do a bit more than simply scraping down bumps. They do mention the soil topography as a factor, however regardless of soils shifting, they should have been able to build it in such away that shifting clay soil would be minimized. It's not even that old in terms of track age, they shouldn't be having that bad of a problem so soon. I mean if the Roman Empire could build roads, many that have lasted and are used to this day, then surely they could have done a better job with building the track. Those Roman's knew how to build roads that last..

Yep, the bumps affect Moto GP much more than the car races but even the F1 cars have had issues on the long straight. I think they may have first started appearing after the 2014/2015 floods.

[turn1]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

I came across an article just a bit ago about the concerns from MotoGP bikers about the bumps that have popped up all over the track. Several mentioned that they consider the track layout as one of the best but because of all the bumps, they have to be careful and not go as fast as they would like. Supposedly the bumps have been scraped down but that had been tried before and didn't work. Sounds like they need to do a bit more than simply scraping down bumps. They do mention the soil topography as a factor, however regardless of soils shifting, they should have been able to build it in such away that shifting clay soil would be minimized. It's not even that old in terms of track age, they shouldn't be having that bad of a problem so soon. I mean if the Roman Empire could build roads, many that have lasted and are used to this day, then surely they could have done a better job with building the track. Those Roman's knew how to build roads that last..

Yes, we've been talking about this extensively on other boards for a few years. COTA has tried over and over to blame the F1 cars for this, saying their great acceleration and braking ability has caused the bumps. This has been known to happen on some tracks, taking the form of rippling bumps in traction and esp braking zones. But the bumps at COTA are all the way around the track, not just in specific areas. If what COTA claims about the F1 cars were true, you'd only see bumps in the braking and traction zones. And remember, COTA was engineered specifically as a dedicated F1 track, designed to take all the forces dished out by F1 cars.

COTA has already done bump grinding operations multiple times in the past. That's basically a much cheaper attempt to hide the bumps and frankly to mask the real problem, which is the soil condition (expansive black clay). After the 2017 MotoGP race, the riders complained about the bumps, so just before the 2018 race, Epstein again had some of bumps 'shaved' or ground down just before the race. The riders rode the track in Friday practice and then commented afterward that it was even worse than before, some comparing the back straight to Motocross 'whoop-de-doos'. They said these bumps made it very unsafe and impossible to get the best speed out of the bike, esp down the back straight, where their speeds exceed 210 mph. They said that at high speeds the bikes were going airborne, launching off of the bumps, causing the traction control system to cut power, which as you can imagine must be very scary and difficult to deal with at 200mph. There are numerous bumps elsewhere around the track that have caused problems, most notably the one on the apex of Turn 18 that has caused multiple crashes, most notably Maverick Vinales crashing out from 4th place on lap 2 in 2017. During the IndyCar weekend, the drivers adopted the practice of just driving about 10 feet wide of the normal racing line there, just to avoid that big bump on the apex.

Grinding the bumps only masks the real problem, as I mentioned, but it also can create more problems down the road as the grinding thins and thus weakens the asphalt surface. Now we're starting to see numerous thick, long cracks appearing in the track surface in the same areas where track grinding has been done. This allows water under the track surface and only makes the problem even worse.

COTA has also tried to blame the weather, but everyone who's ever been out there or who lives in the area knows this was always going to be a problem, no matter the weather. All the roads out there go wavy within a year or so of smoothing and resurfacing. When COTA was built, they put in place an engineering plan intended to prevent what we're seeing - by digging down as far as 20+ feet in places, laying a water barrier layer, and then refilling with prescribe road bases to prevent the shifting. There are rumors though that corners were cut in this process to save money.

I'm told by guys in the industry on another board that the best proper fix is to smooth and repave the track from start to finish, but I hear that will cost $8-12M, and COTA/Epstein don't want to spend the money. COTA did resurface Turn 10 over the winter, and ground more bumps. The industry guys say that as long as COTA continues to take this approach, the problems will just get worse and worse.

[turn1]

Originally Posted by smith_atx

Yep, the bumps affect Moto GP much more than the car races but even the F1 cars have had issues on the long straight. I think they may have first started appearing after the 2014/2015 floods.

Yep, they've also had issues with the big bump in the Turn 11 braking zone, where the large concrete culvert runs under the track. Williams had electrical problems caused by that bump 2 years running, iirc.

[turn1]

After COTA repairs, MotoGP riders hope 'Horsepower Rodeo' is less bumpy
https://www.statesman.com/sports/201...-is-less-bumpy

“It’s really bumpy and sends you in many directions, kind of like a rodeo,” said Marc Márquez, explaining the rustic helmet design he’s rocking this week for the Red Bull Grand Prix of the Americas.

Though the Spaniard has ridden the bumpy Circuit of the Americas track to six straight victories in Austin, even the “King of COTA” had some stern words during the pre-race press conference Thursday when riders were asked about efforts to improve the problems.

...

“I checked a little bit, and I know that they did a few modifications,” Márquez said. “They didn’t fix what we asked from the safety commission. In the first practice we will see what is going on with the track.


“Of course, this track is quite bumpy. One of the most difficult tracks in this aspect of the calendar. Sometimes it’s disappointing because it’s one of the best layouts. We hope that they did a great job, but tomorrow we will see.”
...

In 2017 multiple riders, including Rossi, used the comparison of a motocross track. As for why the bumps exist and why they’re so hard to get rid of, opinions vary. Some point to the presence of F1 and the high downforce cars from that series inflict on the surface. But COTA is far from the only track to host both.

The most popular theory is the one that Australian rider Jack Miller of Pramac Racing floated Thursday.

“I think it’s got to be something to do with the ground around here,” he said. “It looks like it’s a lot of clay, and if I remember correctly, directly after the first year we were here they had a lot of rain, which could cause it to move.

“I’m interested to see the work that they’ve done this year if it’s an improvement or it’s just trying to patch another job and it’s not that great.”

Austin: Riders doubtful of COTA bump fix

https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/91...-cota-bump-fix

Double title runner-up Andrea Dovizioso is among those that are sceptical of how much can be achieved without a full resurfacing.
"I'm worried it's not possible to really fix the problem that exists with the track. And that is very bad because I think it's one of the most beautiful tracks in our championship," said the Ducati rider.

"The problem is there are bumps everywhere and with the bike it’s very difficult to ride. Not just to be fast. Looks like the asphalt or the dirt under the asphalt moves almost everywhere. So it's difficult to fix if you don’t make a completely new preparation, I think."
As Dovi suggested, while F1 cars are typically blamed for excessive bumps on MotoGP circuits, many feel the geology of the area is the main factor.

"It's a great shame because the track is fantastic and also quite new, but suffers a lot about a bumps problem," said Yamaha's Valentino Rossi. "Maybe something happens from below [the surface].

"In three or four parts they are very big. In the last years they've tried to do something about the bumps but unfortunately they don’t improve. We have to check tomorrow and we hope that it's better."
"The track itself is not that old, as Vale says," Pramac's Jack Miller added. "We go to many tracks on the calendar that have a lot more years on them and are not that bumpy.

"I think it's definitely got to be to do with the ground around here. It looks like a lot of clay and if I remember correctly directly after the first year we were here they had a lot of rain, which could cause it to move.

"But the track was bumpy, especially the back straight, and then last year they ground it down and the bumps actually became bigger and longer. So I'm interested to see if the work for this year is an improvement or if it's just trying to patch another job and not that great."

The Statesman article incorrectly states that "The section including Turns 9, 10 and 11 was fully repaved". In fact, the repave did not include Turns 9 or 11. Only Turn 10 was repaved.

As for the Statesman labeling as 'theories' the comments that the bumps might be caused by the soil conditions, that's a fact, not a theory. It's not the weather or F1 cars as COTA continues to suggest LOL.

[turn1]

Welp...

Espargaro: "Super Dangerous" COTA "not at the level of MotoGP"
https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/ne...track/4369283/

Petrucci: COTA is "like a road, with bumps, holes, and everything ... it's unbelievable we are riding here."
https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/91...re-riding-here

Crutchlow: COTA bumps are "like jumps ... It's getting stupid now"
https://t.co/4WEOzsdYyH

[ILUVSAT]

I wouldn't be shocked if races start pulling out and COTA is forced (at least financially) to shutter. Actually, I'm a little perplexed that it hasn't happened already.