[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by JustinMacD

I hate Tom Murphy on CBC. Just the way he talks about the Convention Centre...

Everything is in a negative tone: "Lots of people are very upset about using this money for the convention centre" etc.

Just STFU and report the news.

CBC News these days is not about reporting the news, it is about creating stories.

I mean, really, if they were still a legit news operation, do you think they would give Colleen Jones airtime just about every single night for her ridiculous stories?

CBC News under its present management has taken lessons from the US news tabloids and presents everything in a negative, contentious tone, even if it isn't. They do the same thing with their excessively alarmist weather reports. Everything is high drama in order to try and get ratings.

The old days of CBC news being actual journalists are long gone. Knowlton Nash and his contemporaries are spinning in their graves.

[fenwick16]

I don't get to see the Halifax area news but at least Peter Mansbridge on the National News seems trustworthy. I think Knowlton Nash might still be alive (but I am not sure).

Is the Central Library being funded through the Building Canada fund also? PS: I just found the answer - the new Central Library will be funded under the same program - Building Canada Fund. Here is the announcement - http://www.buildingcanada-chantierscanada.gc.ca/media/news-nouvelles/2009/20091019halifax-eng.html .

(Source: http://www.buildingcanada-chantierscanada.gc.ca/media/news-nouvelles/2009/20091019halifax-eng.html )

Federal funding for this project would come from the Major Infrastructure Component of the Building Canada Fund. Funding is conditional on the project meeting all of the requirements under the Building Canada Fund and the signing of a contribution agreement with the province.

The same announcement listed roadway improvements and wastewater treatment facilities under the same Building Canada Fund.

In addition to the Halifax Central Library project, Canada and Nova Scotia have identified as priorities for funding a package of wastewater and road upgrading initiatives.

This whole debate about the convention centre funding coming from roadway funds (actually Building Canada Fund) seems very hypocritical. The same funding will be used for the Central Library and was announced on October 19 2009 without a word being mentioned in the CBC or Herald news. I am in favour of the Central library but against the hypocrisy of convention centre opponents who nevertheless seem to support the Central Library regardless of where the money is coming from.

[fenwick16]

It is uplifting to read an honest report written by Brian Flinn in the allnovascotia.com - "New Spin Aims at Ending Road-Convention Debate". It just reported the facts without all the misinformation coming from CBC.

[halifaxboyns]

I've always had the feeling that the CBC had some bias on the issue; I just didn't realize it until the recent articles. It's sad.
Alas, I don't have an access to allnovascotia - don't you have to pay for it? If not; i'll have to set myself up on it one of these days.

The only thing I can thank god for is that the people don't have a say in this decision (per sae) and once the funding decision is made - it's just a matter of design. I just feel bad for the poor planning staff who are going to have to go out there and take the heat because they'll get it from people who just don't want the project period. That happened to me in regards to digital signs, I'm still nursing the wounds so to speak (a good bottle of jack helps!).
=)

If any of the HRM planners watch this board (I know they do); my hats off to you for the 'next phase'. I hope your higher ups put a lot of stuff on the website that says the limits of the debate or not about whether the project should occur and how the project is funded - it's purely about the design. That might save some time.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

CBC News these days is not about reporting the news, it is about creating stories.

I mean, really, if they were still a legit news operation, do you think they would give Colleen Jones airtime just about every single night for her ridiculous stories?

CBC News under its present management has taken lessons from the US news tabloids and presents everything in a negative, contentious tone, even if it isn't. They do the same thing with their excessively alarmist weather reports. Everything is high drama in order to try and get ratings.

The old days of CBC news being actual journalists are long gone. Knowlton Nash and his contemporaries are spinning in their graves.

Agreed (except for the part about Nash's grave, as he is still very much alive!)... back in the 80s I would have always watched The National... now not so much!

There really is no news agency that just reports facts any more, because it is only about selling the news. I can read the exact same "facts" in the National Post, G&M and Toronto Star and get 3 completely different spins. It is as if it isn't the same story at all. When I read news I just want the facts, when I opinion I will read their Op-Ed pages.

The worst in my memory that I saw for that was when I was living in the US during the last Iraq War. Their was no such thing as investigative journalism, just spin and a desperation to not be shut out of a story (so they would report whatever they were told to do).

No such thing as simply reporting the truth any more.

Funny part is that the federal government recently proposed changes to the law the restricts news agencies from reporting false facts. The government wants to loosen the rules that prevent people from reporting false stories. W. T. F.???

[JustinMacD]

The National is still an EXCELLENT news cast. Mansbridge is top notch and they have some excellent reporters.

The local Halifax news cast just annoys me.

Agreed completely with Keith about Colleen Jones. Her stories are just awful.

[JustinMacD]

Here comes more bashing toward the Convention Centre on CBC.

All the goons living in the boondocks incoherently bashing Halifax and talking about some little roads down in the valley should be paved.

I hate living in Nova Scotia. God. Moving to Toronto in two years and cannot wait.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by JustinMacD

Here comes more bashing toward the Convention Centre on CBC.

All the goons living in the boondocks incoherently bashing Halifax and talking about some little roads down in the valley should be paved.

I hate living in Nova Scotia. God. Moving to Toronto in two years and cannot wait.

and I am sure they treated it the same when the same fund was used to build the Central Nova Civic Centre... Cheticamp Water Utility... etc

I guess it would be ok then if I wanted my street paved instead of that civic centre?!?! ARG. Of course not... people are only complaining because the money is going to the Hated Halifax.

[Wishblade]

Don't worry guys, I don't think their going to get their way. I just have a feeling the feds will come through.
I have to say I had kind of a grudge against rural areas of this province before now, but I feel even more strongly about that after all the comments I've read/heard from people on this.

[Canadian_Bacon]

I don't mind if they take money from a fund that is for road building or civic center construction etc. But if it's strictly a road building fund, then I don't think any money from that fund should be diverted to build a convention center. They can't fix the roads with the money they have now, if they divert some of it to something else, then next season our roads might as well be dirt roads.

What's the good of a convention center "that's good for the whole province" if the rest of the province has a mess of it's road system. If I have to drive on pot hole ridden roads, just so hali can get a shiny new center, that's not good for the whole province.

Again, if they want money from a fund that is for road and civic building construction, then sure. But if it's strictly a road construction fund, then I don't think so.

[beyeas]

But that's the whole thing here that the press has confused people on... it ISN'T a road building fund. It is capital infrastructure fund, and log before this request the feds have used this fund to build things other than roads, such as civic centres and water plants. It is not a road fund that they are pulling from.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by beyeas

But that's the whole thing here that the press has confused people on... it ISN'T a road building fund. It is capital infrastructure fund, and log before this request the feds have used this fund to build things other than roads, such as civic centres and water plants. It is not a road fund that they are pulling from.

Shhhh, don't say that, the CBC might hear you and be forced to report the truth for a change.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Shhhh, don't say that, the CBC might hear you and be forced to report the truth for a change.

Fat chance of that. You could stand on the hill with a megaphone and all the people in the CBC would say is what is that strange noise? At least global reported it correctly and included the minister saying what the fund was for.

[Jonovision]

Trade centre in MacKay’s hands

Halifax project a hot potato because of mixed opinions


Nova Scotia Transportation Min­­ister Bill Estabrooks went off­script last week on whether the federal government will agree to spend $47 million on the pro­posed Halifax convention centre. “I’m not going to speculate on the dates when we’re going to have the announcement," he said. “But there’s no more ‘if’ to it — we’re going to have this announcement."

Here’s what Estabrooks was supposed to say: “I can’t speak for the federal government, but this is a great project and I am hopeful that our partners at the federal level will participate.

We’ve been working very hard with our partners. I know that federal officials are reviewing the details very carefully, and I am optimistic, because a new con­vention centre will be a great boost for the economic devel­opment of Halifax Regional Mu­nicipality and indeed all of Nova Scotia, Atlantic Canada, Canada and the world."

That’s not what Estabrooks said. He said: “The deal is going to get done."

In response, Peter MacKay, Nova Scotia’s Minister of Decid­ing Which Projects Get Federal Money, gave Estabrooks a feder­al- provincial dressing-down.

“The provincial government does not speak for the federal government when it comes to this file," MacKay said. “We’re making progress and I should be able to make a decision on this well within the timelines."
Now the funny thing here is that MacKay kind of went off-script, too. He is not the minister who gets to decide what infrastructure projects the federal government funds. That honour goes to the affable Chuck Strahl, the federal transport minister.

But you can bet that Strahl, the MP for Chilliwack­Fraser Canyon in far-off British Columbia, doesn’t care much wheth­er Ottawa funds the convention centre, any more than MacKay cares that Ottawa recently provid­ed $175,280 to improve the rail crossing on Upper Prairie Road in Chilliwack.

So MacKay will likely make the decision.

He doesn’t seem that enthusi­astic about it, and I can see why.

Public opinion in Nova Scotia is mixed, and there is no guarantee that MacKay will look good spending the money. Mayor Peter Kelly and all three provincial party leaders in Nova Scotia support the project, but Halifax MP Megan Leslie is on the fence and South Shore-St. Margarets MP Gerald Keddy, whose riding includes part of suburban Hali­fax, is against it.

In rural Nova Scotia, there is a widespread feeling that Halifax gets enough good things already.

In the city, a small but effective group of heritage activists has managed to mobilize public opinion against the centre. And many taxpayers are grousing that the developer will end up owning the centre while governments foot the bill.

Here in Ottawa, in contrast, workers are finishing a similar project, the $159-million Ottawa Congress Centre expansion, which is being completed with the help of $50 million from the federal Building Canada Fund.

Nobody in Ottawa is grousing about this. People say it looks great, and restaurateurs are look­ing forward to greater numbers of convention visitors when it opens in the spring.

Nobody, either, seems to be complaining in Charlottetown or Fredericton, where the federal government has announced it is funding new convention cen­tres.

But in Nova Scotia, for some reason, this kind of thing is problematic. And MacKay, having been burned politically when the province and municipality decided to walk away from the Commonwealth Games bid, is likely eyeing the convention centre nervously, anticipating that it might not turn into a win for him.

Nonetheless, it would be very surprising if he rejected the pro­ject. The decision is coming soon, I’m told, which means it will be made before the federal government’s spring budget, when the government is sup­posed to tighten up spending. I can’t think of a similar project — a legitimate economic devel­opment project — that the federal government has turned down in recent years.

So Estabrooks, although he went off-script, likely was speak­ing the truth. Ottawa likely is going to drop $47 million, fairly soon, and Halifax developer Rank Inc. will spend half a bil­lion dollars on a hotel, mall, office tower and 300,000-square-foot convention centre, breathing new life into the bleeding downtown core.

And everybody will have some­thing to complain about.

([email protected])

MacKay will likely make the decision.

He doesn’t seem that enthusiastic about it, and I can see why.

[fenwick16]

I think that the Chronicle Herald Story referenced by Jonovision was a fair, concise representation of the convention centre status and possible outcome

It is both interesting and frustrating to see how much public opposition that a minority of people has generated (primarily Save The View and the Heritage Trust). In my opinion, this is no longer just about a convention centre but has become a debate on the future of downtown Halifax. If the Save the View and Heritage Trust win this battle then there will be many more battles in the future to get any major developments built downtown. Will downtown Halifax stagnate or prosper? Heritage is important but only when balanced properly. The existing heritage buildings were built by forward thinking developers 100 - 200 years ago. So why should Halifax now be held back by backward thinking people?

[someone123]

It's a bit misleading to say that everything in Ottawa and other cities was positive. We often hear the positive news from afar but don't hear the smaller-scale complaining and we rarely hear about projects that never get off the ground. I didn't follow the Ottawa story but there was lots of negativity about the Nanaimo convention centre which has not been very successful. That being said, in Halifax there is far more general negativity than in other places. Simply announce a project and people will complain whether or not it is a good idea. As mentioned, rural NS simply doesn't like money to be spent on the city at all -- but they are happy for the city to pay most of the taxes.

As for the CBC, I find it particularly sad to see a public media outlet lower its standards in favour of sensationalism. The worse they get, the less I see the point of spending public money on them. We already get bad, biased news from the private news agencies.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by someone123

It's a bit misleading to say that everything in Ottawa and other cities was positive. We often hear the positive news from afar but don't hear the smaller-scale complaining and we rarely hear about projects that never get off the ground. I didn't follow the Ottawa story but there was lots of negativity about the Nanaimo convention centre which has not been very successful. That being said, in Halifax there is far more general negativity than in other places. Simply announce a project and people will complain whether or not it is a good idea. As mentioned, rural NS simply doesn't like money to be spent on the city at all -- but they are happy for the city to pay most of the taxes.

As for the CBC, I find it particularly sad to see a public media outlet lower its standards in favour of sensationalism. The worse they get, the less I see the point of spending public money on them. We already get bad, biased news from the private news agencies.

I wasn't aware that there was any problems with the Ottawa Centre - what was up with it? I knew about the Nanaimo one because I'm on the 'save the view' facebook group (mainly because I like to stir the pot hehe). The flogged the Nanaimo one to death and won't budge on the fact ours will be a bigger version of Nanaimo's (a bigger failure). I doubt it. That group only talks up articles which help their cause and always forget about the key thing: the facts. It's funny, I rarely check it out but I figured it had been a few months.

News is news; I find it hard to locate good quality non-biased news anymore. Case in point, I had flipped to CNN today and Wolf Blitzer was talking to Nancy Pelossi from the Democrates. I will say, she is a woman of class in that she wished the republicans well, wanted to get the arguments down to more civilized levels and here was Wolf trying to egg her onto say something stupid, which she didn't fall for. I long for some of the old veteran interviewers like Larry King and gold old Nolton.

With all the talk of election, I have a feeling that the PC's are going to look at this and support it just for the fact that the opposition parties are creating rumors of a potential election - so you have to buy votes somehow!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I wasn't aware that there was any problems with the Ottawa Centre - what was up with it?

Well here's one:

The shape of the glass exterior is designed to resemble a tulip petal in shape in honour of Ottawa's annual tulip festival. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa_Convention_Centre)

Way too exciting and avant-garde for Ottawa. Stephen Harper no doubt accidentally crushed that terrified little orange cat when he read about it.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I wasn't aware that there was any problems with the Ottawa Centre - what was up with it? I knew about the Nanaimo one because I'm on the 'save the view' facebook group (mainly because I like to stir the pot hehe). The flogged the Nanaimo one to death and won't budge on the fact ours will be a bigger version of Nanaimo's (a bigger failure). I doubt it. That group only talks up articles which help their cause and always forget about the key thing: the facts. It's funny, I rarely check it out but I figured it had been a few months.

News is news; I find it hard to locate good quality non-biased news anymore. Case in point, I had flipped to CNN today and Wolf Blitzer was talking to Nancy Pelossi from the Democrates. I will say, she is a woman of class in that she wished the republicans well, wanted to get the arguments down to more civilized levels and here was Wolf trying to egg her onto say something stupid, which she didn't fall for. I long for some of the old veteran interviewers like Larry King and gold old Nolton.

With all the talk of election, I have a feeling that the PC's are going to look at this and support it just for the fact that the opposition parties are creating rumors of a potential election - so you have to buy votes somehow!

If they are looking to buy votes in nova scotia then NOT supporting it will give them what they desire, in my opinion of course.

Halifax has long been NDP, therefore there won't be any change in those seats if the Federal support for the new centre is positive or negative.

Its the rural area where significant gains (or loss) for votes can be made. There is a very strong restistance in the rural area over this new centre, including the some of the Federal MLA's representing those areas.

Some of the recent moves by the provincial government has increased the rural urban divide, so therefore in a political strategy i believe there is better chances for Federal votes if they not support the centre as the rural voter would believe the Federal government is listening to their concerns.

[Keith P.]

Rural areas may offer potential for the NDP, but that is because they tend to go to the other parties in federal elections. Core NDP support is primarily in the urban areas around Halifax and any gains they get in the rural areas tend to be transitory.

The left has really been stirred up by this project since they seem to think the only thing govts should spend money on are health and welfare programs. Since the left does not understand business and the economy this seems like a giant waste of money to them. In reality the cost is fairly modest and insignificant in the overall scheme of govt spending. The drama stirred up by the left over this in the guise of "saving the view", thanks in large part to their friends at the CBC and other left-leaning media, is really quite silly.