The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Vertigo3000]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Yep. Rural townships are often in much better condition for infrastructure than the cities. I real townships, a bad road will usually be replaced in 5 years. Bad roads in the city on the other hand can crumble for 20 before they are replaced, and certain infrastructure peices can actually start to fall apart before being replaced. (Gardiner caugh caugh)

I live on a street that has been repaved twice since I've lived on it, and I've been living on it for only six years. So I can completely agree with you, roads are constantly replaced in towns. But then again 150% of people in towns drive 4 cars daily. I can't park all my cars oh noooooo. my neighbours driveway is wider and longer than most lots in Toronto.

[Vertigo3000]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I agree completely.

Toronto is already getting $16 billion for transit from Queen's Park {meaning all Ontarians} and anything extra should be raised in Toronto.

Although Toronto loves to cry poor me and wallow about in a pool of emotion, it does much better than most of Ontario. Being the capitol is gets a VERY disproportional amount o high paying and secure government jobs, government contracts, cultural spending, and, believe it or not, transit spending.

When Harris downloaded Kings highways onto the local municipalities it was the small towns and low density counties that paid the price. It hurt those areas far more than Toronto or the other large cities. The welfare costs hurt the big cities more but much of those costs have since been "uploaded" back on to Queen's Park's tab.

If the tax was to be province wide then all areas should receive the amount they contribute with strings attached that it be spent on transportation with a certain percentage allocated for transit depending on how large the city is.

Do you know why Toronto gets the most funding? Guess it's really hard most people don't get this.... It's because Toronto is the only large F***ing city in this province, of course 2.7 million(5.6 million) people get more funding than 30,000. Seriously people is it that hard to understand where money should be flowing to, Toronto SHOULD be recieving more funding than anywhere else in the province.

[Vertigo3000]

People should be getting mad at what the money is spent on inside the cities and towns rather than have a fit because of which city gets x amount of money.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Vertigo3000

Do you know why Toronto gets the most funding? Guess it's really hard most people don't get this.... It's because Toronto is the only large F***ing city in this province, of course 2.7 million(5.6 million) people get more funding than 30,000. Seriously people is it that hard to understand where money should be flowing to, Toronto SHOULD be recieving more funding than anywhere else in the province.

Ottawa is pretty large too. Not as large as Toronto, but Ottawa-Gatineau is the 5th largest metro area in Canada, and they contribute their fair share to provincial coffers too. I think the original poster was trying to say Toronto's funding as a percentage of all transit funding across Ontario is higher than Toronto's population as a percentage of Ontario's population. I don't know if that's true or not, but I think that was what was being communicated. For the record, Ontario's population outside the GTHA is 51%.

In any event, I sent my MPP (Liberal John Gerretsen) a letter today strongly encouraging him to oppose a tax increase. I not only cited the lack of benefit to the rest of Ontario, but the added financial burden to all Ontario residents, and that it would hurt lower income residents most.

[Beedok]

Wait, isn't only the GTHA paying this increased tax?

[Doady]

So people outside GTA and Hamilton wantt to veto new taxes for GTA and Hamilton for transit expansion in GTA and Hamilton. This is funny.

The people in Kingston should not stick their nose in matters that have nothing to do with them. Mind your own business, we don't want or need your input.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Ottawa is pretty large too. Not as large as Toronto, but Ottawa-Gatineau is the 5th largest metro area in Canada, and they contribute their fair share to provincial coffers too. I think the original poster was trying to say Toronto's funding as a percentage of all transit funding across Ontario is higher than Toronto's population as a percentage of Ontario's population. I don't know if that's true or not, but I think that was what was being communicated. For the record, Ontario's population outside the GTHA is 51%.

In any event, I sent my MPP (Liberal John Gerretsen) a letter today strongly encouraging him to oppose a tax increase. I not only cited the lack of benefit to the rest of Ontario, but the added financial burden to all Ontario residents, and that it would hurt lower income residents most.

Ottawa receives plenty of money, and a city of it's size still doesn't really need that large of a transit network. Ottawa should probably have 30ish KM of RT, and is currently getting 13. (plus plenty more BRT lanes which effectively act as RT) Toronto on the other hand should probably have closer to 300km of RT and 500-600km of regional rail (of which it currently has around 100km) , currently only has 69km of RT, and is only really scheduled to get around 175km by the end of the next 15 years. (plus around 350km of Regional rail) Transit will be improved, but by the point we get those upgrades we will likely need 500km of RT, and will be even further behind. One must remember that transit needs tend not to scale linearly. Toronto needs much more than 6x the transit ottawa needs, as a large portion of Ottawas traffic can be handled by roads, while only a small portion of Toronto's traffic can be.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Ottawa is pretty large too. Not as large as Toronto, but Ottawa-Gatineau is the 5th largest metro area in Canada, and they contribute their fair share to provincial coffers too. I think the original poster was trying to say Toronto's funding as a percentage of all transit funding across Ontario is higher than Toronto's population as a percentage of Ontario's population. I don't know if that's true or not, but I think that was what was being communicated. For the record, Ontario's population outside the GTHA is 51%.

In any event, I sent my MPP (Liberal John Gerretsen) a letter today strongly encouraging him to oppose a tax increase. I not only cited the lack of benefit to the rest of Ontario, but the added financial burden to all Ontario residents, and that it would hurt lower income residents most.

Ottawa receives plenty of money, and a city of it's size still doesn't really need that large of a transit network. Ottawa should probably have 30ish KM of RT, and is currently getting 13. (plus plenty more BRT lanes which effectively act as RT) Toronto on the other hand should probably have closer to 300km of RT and 500-600km of regional rail (of which it currently has around 100km) , currently only has 69km of RT, and is only really scheduled to get around 175km by the end of the next 15 years. (plus around 350km of Regional rail) Transit will be improved, but by the point we get those upgrades we will likely need 500km of RT, and will be even further behind. One must remember that transit needs tend not to scale linearly. Toronto needs much more than 6x the transit ottawa needs, as a large portion of Ottawas traffic can be handled by roads, while only a small portion of Toronto's traffic can be.

And quite frankly, I don't expect your tax rates to go up. as of right now this is a strictly local tax increase, and I would wait for it to actually hit the legislature before emailing out concerns. I wouldn't be surprised if the NDP mandate the 1% HST increase be changed to a 1% corporate tax increase or something.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Doady

So people outside GTA and Hamilton wantt to veto new taxes for GTA and Hamilton for transit expansion in GTA and Hamilton. This is funny.

The people in Kingston should not stick their nose in matters that have nothing to do with them. Mind your own business, we don't want or need your input.

Actually, Kathleen Wynne has stated the tax would be for all of Ontario, to fund transit in the GTA and Hamilton. So yes, for those of us in Kingston and other cities, we have every right to comment about how our tax money is being used.

Either that or the communications people at Queen's Park seriously screwed up.

[Innsertnamehere]

No. Just no. Have you been reading my posts? There WILL NOT BE TAXES FROM OUTSIDE THE GTHA SPENT ON TRANSIT INSIDE OF THE GTHA!!!

This is clear when you look at the numbers. 1% HST province wide would result in much much more that $1.3 billion annually in revenue.


It has been stated that in order to properly implement the HST, several things *might* have to happen.

1. Tax is implemented only in GTHA, this poses problems as it will drive large purchases such as purchasing cars outside of the region.
2. HST is raised across the province to fix this problem, with tax refunds making up the difference outside the GTHA. (Certain tax refunds would be available only outside of the GTHA, resulting in a net 0 tax increase)
3. HST increase is implemented province wide, with funding going to local infrastructure improvements. (I find this extremely unlikely, a much more likely scenario is allowing municipalities to "opt in" for it to receive the funding, and if they "opt out", they get scenario #2.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Ottawa receives plenty of money, and a city of it's size still doesn't really need that large of a transit network. Ottawa should probably have 30ish KM of RT, and is currently getting 13. (plus plenty more BRT lanes which effectively act as RT) Toronto on the other hand should probably have closer to 300km of RT and 500-600km of regional rail (of which it currently has around 100km) , currently only has 69km of RT, and is only really scheduled to get around 175km by the end of the next 15 years. (plus around 350km of Regional rail) Transit will be improved, but by the point we get those upgrades we will likely need 500km of RT, and will be even further behind. One must remember that transit needs tend not to scale linearly. Toronto needs much more than 6x the transit ottawa needs, as a large portion of Ottawas traffic can be handled by roads, while only a small portion of Toronto's traffic can be.

What this really tells me is that the transit systems in BOTH Toronto AND Ottawa are seriously insufficient and underfunded.

[ssiguy]

I appreciate that transit usage should not be based on just population as the larger a city is the higher the transit ridership per-capita. That said, the roads in rural Ontario should be getting a larger slice of the pie on a per-capita basis. The amount of King's highways roads that Toronto had to take over was a very tiny fraction of what the rest of the province had to absorb.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I appreciate that transit usage should not be based on just population as the larger a city is the higher the transit ridership per-capita. That said, the roads in rural Ontario should be getting a larger slice of the pie on a per-capita basis. The amount of King's highways roads that Toronto had to take over was a very tiny fraction of what the rest of the province had to absorb.

There are a lot of roads in Toronto as well. But this thread is about transit not roads. And the current discussion is about funding specifically for transit, in the GTA and Hamilton, and you keep going on and on about roads outside GTA and Hamilton. Roads is another issue. Outside GTA and Hamilton is another issue.

If the GTA and Hamilton want to raise new taxes in the GTA and Hamilton for transit in the GTA and Hamilton, the rest of the province should shut the hell up about their roads. This has nothing to with the rest of the province, and it has nothing to do with roads.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

No. Just no. Have you been reading my posts? There WILL NOT BE TAXES FROM OUTSIDE THE GTHA SPENT ON TRANSIT INSIDE OF THE GTHA!!!

This is clear when you look at the numbers. 1% HST province wide would result in much much more that $1.3 billion annually in revenue.


It has been stated that in order to properly implement the HST, several things *might* have to happen.

1. Tax is implemented only in GTHA, this poses problems as it will drive large purchases such as purchasing cars outside of the region.
2. HST is raised across the province to fix this problem, with tax refunds making up the difference outside the GTHA. (Certain tax refunds would be available only outside of the GTHA, resulting in a net 0 tax increase)
3. HST increase is implemented province wide, with funding going to local infrastructure improvements. (I find this extremely unlikely, a much more likely scenario is allowing municipalities to "opt in" for it to receive the funding, and if they "opt out", they get scenario #2.)

Rather than increase the HST (unlikely in any event, imho), it would seem to me that the costs should be covered "internally" via increased property taxes in the concerned municipalities and/or a surcharge on provincial income tax based on residency.

[Innsertnamehere]

Property taxes are a no go as every single municipality in the GTA has voiced strong opposition to them. In the end, we will probably see a corporate tax hike instead.

[Chadillaccc]

So does this mean they are finally going to get off their lazy fat asses and propose a conversion to high-speed rail?

Via Rail profit triples to $11M

Canada's national passenger rail company, Via Rail, tripled its profit in the first quarter of 2013, to more than $11 million.

Via Rail reported Thursday its profitability tripled in the first three months of this year compared to the same period a year ago.

The uptick in profit came even as the Crown corporation saw revenues fall to $59 million in the January to March period.

Revenues were up by 2.7 per cent along the heavily travelled corridor between Ontario and Quebec, but they fell elsewhere in the country, including southwestern Ontario and the Ocean line between Montreal and Halifax.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2013/05/30/business-via-rail.html

[rbt]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

So does this mean they are finally going to get off their lazy fat asses and propose a conversion to high-speed rail?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2013/05/30/business-via-rail.html

No, it means their 70% subsidy can be trimmed to a 68% subsidy.

The Harper government is not going to fund a massive VIA expansion plan.

[kwoldtimer]

I'd rather see a restoration of the service cuts on the "northern" line in Southern Ontario. (Toronto-London via Georgetown, Guelph, Kitchener and Stratford)

[SteelTown]

Grand unveiling of of the new James St N GO Station


Natalie Paddon
https://twitter.com/NatatTheSpec/status/340517222525050880/photo/1


Natalie Paddon
https://twitter.com/NatatTheSpec/status/340517417816059904/photo/1


Natalie Paddon
https://twitter.com/NatatTheSpec/status/340520578752585728/photo/1

[Chadillaccc]

It's crazy that by 2016, Vancouver will have the longest rapid transit system in the country at 79.6 km, with Toronto at 76 km after the Vaughan extension, and Montreal at 69.2 km. Wow!