YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by mr.x

What's the likelihood of JAL going under and axing all of its international routes to focus on solely domestic routes?

Domestic routes in Japan aren't really that profitable. They usually cost the same or less than the Shinkansen bullet train, and you can imagine the costs of running an aircraft with 150 seats compared to a train with hundreds or thousands, which are all full. However, both ANA and JAL have began focusing more on the "sophisticated" business traveler with their expanded "Class J" (usually $100 more), a step above economy, and an ultra luxurious first class (5 - 6x more than economy).

The efficiency of the Japanese airlines are truly amazing, though. They can have the plane turned around in half an hour or less, it's literally swarmed with workers when it lands, and they don't even begin boarding until 10 - 15 minutes before departure, and everyone waits in line nicely and taps their cellphone (the majority of people buy tickets with their cellphone, now) or insert a low-tech paper ticket in to a machine. And security is a breeze, 5 - 10 minutes (you can still bring liquids on domestic Japan flights ). All of this in an effort to try and win customers over the Shinkansen! It's always interesting to watch the prices, even the train tries to compete with them price-wise, if one has a sale.

[Yume-sama]

Time to start working out, digital strip searches coming to YVR.

Dozens of body scanners will be installed in Canadian airports to comply with new U.S. security protocols, the federal government confirmed Tuesday.

Rob Merrifield, minister of state for transport, said 44 scanners ordered on Tuesday will be used on passengers selected for secondary screening at Canadian airports.

CBC News has confirmed that the machines, which can scan through clothing, be installed in Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal and Halifax.

The system, tested over the last year in British Columbia at the Kelowna Airport, allows a screening officer to see whether someone is carrying plastic explosives or other dangerous items.

The plan to use the technology has stirred controversy because the scanner produces a three-dimensional outline of a person's naked body.
Privacy concerns addressed

Chantal Bernier, the assistant privacy commissioner, said in October the national air-security agency had successfully answered her office's questions about the project. Under the plan approved by the privacy chief, the officer would view the image in a separate room and never see the actual traveller.

Only people singled out for extra screening would be scanned, and they would have the option of getting a physical search instead.

Merrifield and Transport Minister John Baird said after an individual has successfully passed through the scanning, the information and images will not be stored, transmitted or printed in keeping with Canada's privacy laws.

The scanners cost $250,000 each, including parts and training. The first 12 scanners ordered will arrive next week, said Baird, with the remaining 32 coming over the next six to 10 weeks.

Baird said it takes about five days to train airport personnel to use the machines.

Transport Canada will also set up an airport watch system to look for suspicious passengers and tab them for enhanced screening, Baird said. He said the new system will not affect passengers under 18 years of age.
Screening process concerns privacy groups

Bernier told CBC News the behavioural screening process introduced Tuesday was not part of its October review and said the Office of the Privacy Commissioner will be discussing the issue with the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority.

"We intend to keep a close watch on this file," she said.

Canadian Civil Liberties Association general counsel Natalie Des Rosiers said she had concerns about the behavioural screening plan, which she says could be used to single out certain groups for racial profiling.

She also had concerns that while the government has portrayed the scanners as optional, security officials may change their minds and make the scans mandatory after their implementation.

Meanwhile, the U.S. government could be looking at more airport security measures.

President Barack Obama is scheduled to speak in Washington, D.C., at 4 p.m. ET after a meeting with top security and intelligence officials.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/01/05/security-canada-us-airport.html

Curious that they just so happen to have 12 $250,000 machines ready to ship to next week. It's almost as if these had been already ordered, and the government was just waiting for a convenient time to stomp on more of our privacy. I wonder what will happen if the machine sees something "suspicious", will you then have to go for a REAL strip search? Hmph. This is just another fake, feel good, "security" measure.

[Zassk]

If you're ugly, will they spend less time looking at your scan, and let you through faster? :-)

[clooless]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

Time to start working out, digital strip searches coming to YVR.

Curious that they just so happen to have 12 $250,000 machines ready to ship to next week. It's almost as if these had been already ordered, and the government was just waiting for a convenient time to stomp on more of our privacy. I wonder what will happen if the machine sees something "suspicious", will you then have to go for a REAL strip search? Hmph. This is just another fake, feel good, "security" measure.

I don't see how a generic and rather nondescript image of my body is more intrusive and invasive than a fully body search. I would rather the scan than someone putting their hands down my pants, as happened to me last year on one occasion.

And I do see these scanners as offering real, tangible security if the technology can do what they say it does. That said, I agree that most of what is done now is simply feel-good, security theatre. If we want real security we need to adopt the security policies and procedures that are used at Israeli airports. Terrorism in Israel is a real and credible daily threat and their focus is on behavior, threat profiling and common sense security, such as not allowing long queues and large crowds, not nail clippers and bottled water.

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by clooless

I don't see how a generic and rather nondescript image of my body is more intrusive and invasive than a fully body search. I would rather the scan than someone putting their hands down my pants, as happened to me last year on one occasion.

The image portrayed on the screen is not what the real examiner behind the scene sees. They see a full 3D image of your body, and every detail.



And, MIT has a study that says prolonged exposure to the "terahertz radiation may damage DNA and interfere with processes such as gene expression and DNA replication." it may do things such as cause "birth defects" and "bring cancer out of remission".
http://www.mit.edu/~soljacic/THz_review_Mat_Today.pdf Well, at least we'll be safe from one possible terrorist. Just as long as he's over 18.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

The image portrayed on the screen is not what the real examiner behind the scene sees. They see a full 3D image of your body, and every detail.



And, MIT has a study that says prolonged exposure to the "terahertz radiation may damage DNA and interfere with processes such as gene expression and DNA replication." it may do things such as cause "birth defects" and "bring cancer out of remission".
http://www.mit.edu/~soljacic/THz_review_Mat_Today.pdf.

This of course will be especially hazardous to people who are frequent flyers - as many of you on this site are - and/or people who have had cancer.

I wonder if a former cancer patient could obtain a medical certificate requiring that they not be subjected to this type of scan, but to a conventional body scan instead. It's a hassle, but it might save lives.

Perhaps a similar type of document could be had for people who fly over a certain number of times per year.

[zivan56]

Thankfully I have never flow (or plan to) the United States. Being forced to be exposed to radiation disturbing to the say the least. I really could care less about the images, but the radiation is my main concern.

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by zivan56

Thankfully I have never flow (or plan to) the United States. Being forced to be exposed to radiation disturbing to the say the least. I really could care less about the images, but the radiation is my main concern.

I guarantee we will be seeing these for domestic flights before long. The government has an excuse, now.

[trofirhen]

A contact at YVR recently told me that yes indeed, Pier A will be upgraded to provide more space for Westjet.

Conversely, it seems that pier B is due to be torn down, and a new part of the airport (under wraps; I don't know what it is) is destined to be built in its place.

Interesting to watch to the ongoing evolution of YVR.

However (another tangent) ... don't get the idea that it's one of the the world's emerging big airports. Brisbane, Australia had slightly more pasengers per year in 2008, and Stanstead, that low-cost airport in Northeast London, had 20million+, beating out YVR by over 2 million.

London also has Gatwick and enormous Heathrow, too; (we can forget about small Luton for a minute)!

YVR is beautiful and efficient, but in terms of passenger volume and number of take-offs and landings, is really still fairly modest.

[SpongeG]

just go es to prove Vancouver isn't as big a deal as we like to think it is

[vansky]

the world's top talent and brains is a very small percentage, we got the top ppl , o well, that's why the population is small~~....we just need a few more genius to increase the city's power...

look at cities with population dominated by idiots...look at their airport toilets, u can't even flush...look at their houses and infrastructure, look at the ugliness, look at the stupidity...

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by vansky

the world's top talent and brains is a very small percentage, we got the top ppl , o well, that's why the population is small~~....we just need a few more genius to increase the city's power...

look at cities with population dominated by idiots...look at their airport toilets, u can't even flush...look at their houses and infrastructure, look at the ugliness, look at the stupidity...

......

[zivan56]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

I guarantee we will be seeing these for domestic flights before long. The government has an excuse, now.

So I guess the choice is an almost cerntain later slow and painful death or an earlier quick and painless one (if at all)?
I heard you can choose to be patted down, so that's at least a relief.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

The image portrayed on the screen is not what the real examiner behind the scene sees. They see a full 3D image of your body, and every detail.



And, MIT has a study that says prolonged exposure to the "terahertz radiation may damage DNA and interfere with processes such as gene expression and DNA replication." it may do things such as cause "birth defects" and "bring cancer out of remission".
http://www.mit.edu/~soljacic/THz_review_Mat_Today.pdf Well, at least we'll be safe from one possible terrorist. Just as long as he's over 18.

The study in your link does not include the word cancer, gene, birth, defect, or DNA. In fact when I search for the quoted section, intended by you to be seen as a quote from the study by us, the only page that comes up on google is this one.

The only thing that comes close is a study quoted on the terahertz wikipedia page, a review of which says "They say that although the forces generated are tiny, resonant effects allow THz waves to unzip double-stranded DNA, creating bubbles in the double strand that could significantly interfere with processes such as gene expression and DNA replication. "

From the study which said this:
"This suggests that THz radiation may signicantly interfere with the naturally occurring local strand separation dynamics of double-stranded DNA, and consequently, with DNA function."
The study was done at Los Alamos National Lab, with scientists from there and Harvard, not from MIT.

You have to remember that even if terahertz can interfer DNA, so can ultraviolet. The reason we have skin is to block out almost all radiation from our internal systems. One reason why THz are so good at body scanning is that they do not penetrate the body beyond the skin, but are able to go through clothes. UV light is used in water treatment plants to stop bacteria from reproducing by fouling up their DNA. Yet we walk outside in the Sun almost every day.

If you are going to scaremonger, at least use a source that backs up what you are trying to say.

[vansky]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

just go es to prove Vancouver isn't as big a deal as we like to think it is

dont be fooled by delusional airport statistics, dont be fooled by ppl who put down this city, we r the greatest order to all the chaos in this world...

[SpongeG]

they had a women on CBC today who made much sense and brought up things about the scanning and its effectiveness - its pretty much not going to stop it happenning its only in some countries - theres nothing stopping would be terrorists using a country that doesn't use the machines and get aboard a US airline and something else - the person who sees the image on th machine is in a hidden room and the security dealing with the passengers don't see anything and there is too much room for miscommunication to happen in there and a few other valid points for and against

giving up privacy to fly is never a good thing

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

just go es to prove Vancouver isn't as big a deal as we like to think it is

Precisely. It's a lovely city, with many fine attributes, but lacks a real economy of scale (unlike Seattle, which has a real economy) and has little corporate power (just compare us with Calgary; dealt with in another thread)

It's a city with a delusion of grandeur. Either that grandeur is going to break and crumble, or, conversely, the city will one day live up to what it likes to believe itself to be.

[zivan56]

Ok, this machine is now officially useless. It only detects stuff on the outside of the body. A person committing suicide could remove a kidney/lung or put explosives in there since they are going to die anyways. I'm willing to bet the same amount as the bomber had could be put in body cavities along with a detonator. So just another inconvenience and not much of a safeguard...

[s211]

Originally Posted by vansky

dont be fooled by delusional airport statistics, dont be fooled by ppl who put down this city, we r the greatest order to all the chaos in this world...

Please find a sarcasm emoticon.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by zivan56

Ok, this machine is now officially useless. It only detects stuff on the outside of the body. A person committing suicide could remove a kidney/lung or put explosives in there since they are going to die anyways. I'm willing to bet the same amount as the bomber had could be put in body cavities along with a detonator. So just another inconvenience and not much of a safeguard...

plus its only being used in certain countires - i think canada, uk france for sure because of teh shoe bomber boarding in france - the comments on the news were whats stopping a would be getting on in italy where the machines are not being used or any number of countries where the scanners won't be used