CHICAGO | 400 N Lake Shore Drive | 851 FT & 765 FT | 73 & ? FLOORS

[BrickellBased]

They switched to white painted metal right?

But it's gonna be simulated terra cotta looking. Hey there's that.

[BuildThemTaller]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

You can be angry.

But not surprised.


Afterall, we're talking about Related Midwest here

Why are we ragging on Related Midwest? They hit it out of the park with the Row and One Bennett Park is also high-quality. They wanted to build 400 N DSLD taller with a hotel component before Reilly forced them to chop their proposal down. I think you're pointing at the wrong villain here.

[Toasty Joe]

Originally Posted by BuildThemTaller

Why are we ragging on Related Midwest? They hit it out of the park with the Row and One Bennett Park is also high-quality. They wanted to build 400 N DSLD taller with a hotel component before Reilly forced them to chop their proposal down. I think you're pointing at the wrong villain here.

I really like The Row and One Bennett Park but neither are good examples of high-quality exterior finishes. OBP is pre-cast concrete for most of the tower (as opposed to all granite) and The Row fakes its steel look with metal panels over concrete columns. Not like there is anything wrong with either of those choices, but it's definitely the cheaper way to do things. I'd actually like to see more developers focused on non-glass exterior finishes, even if they aren't the highest quality.

I'd be a lot more interested in seeing if the cost cutting (specifically OBP and the terra cotta on these new towers) actually tipped the financial projections into the positive therefore was necessary to get off the ground OR if it was just a matter of higher profit for the developers/investors, who'd already be making a pretty penny.

[munchymunch]

Originally Posted by BuildThemTaller

Why are we ragging on Related Midwest? They hit it out of the park with the Row and One Bennett Park is also high-quality. They wanted to build 400 N DSLD taller with a hotel component before Reilly forced them to chop their proposal down. I think you're pointing at the wrong villain here.

Eh, I like the Row but calling One Bennet Park “high quality” is a stretch. 500 N Lake Shore and OneEleven are both absolute snoozers and this regardless of Reillys interference is losing its terra-cotta which is really disappointing. Hell, I remember when they dropped the promo video of this project they were absolutely glazing the fact that the design had terracotta just for it to be removed.

Every developer does it so I guess I’m being unfair but Related loves to hype up their “premier designs” only for them to severely dumb them down.

[r18tdi]

Originally Posted by munchymunch

Eh, I like the Row but calling One Bennet Park “high quality” is a stretch.

Sure the precast instead of limestone cladding is a let down, but One Bennett is one of the highest quality recent high-rises in terms of interior design, detailing, artwork, layouts, amenities, and services. It's right on par with Tribune Tower and blows buildings like St. Regis, NEMA. Park Tower, 401 Wabash and One Chicago out of the water (in my experience having been inside all). A building as luxe and detailed as OBP wouldn't pencil out in 2023. They simply wouldn't build it now.

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by r18tdi

Sure the precast instead of limestone cladding is a let down, but One Bennett is one of the highest quality recent high-rises in terms of interior design, detailing, artwork, layouts, amenities, and services. It's right on par with Tribune Tower and blows buildings like St. Regis, NEMA. Park Tower, 401 Wabash and One Chicago out of the water (in my experience having been inside all). A building as luxe and detailed as OBP wouldn't pencil out in 2023. They simply wouldn't build it now.

Only a scant few see the inside... Everyone sees the outside.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by r18tdi

Sure the precast instead of limestone cladding is a let down,

And that's exactly why I said that no one should be surprised that 400 N LSD lost its terra cotta.

Had Related built OBP in NYC, it certainly would've been clad with real limestone.

Likewise, if this 400 N LSD project were being built there by Related too, the terrra-cotta probably would've stayed.

[BrickellBased]

Gotta agree with this.

OBP actually has real limestone up through the first 3 floors or so at the base and it's absolutely stunning. I can't think of any other project in Chicago that has that much real stone cladding built downtown this century. Have you walked around the base? It looks phenomenal and I believe the building will really stand the test of time.

But the building is still not at the price point to afford limestone up at 800 ft and in a lot of ways that also doesn't really make much engineering sense either. And you can't tell that difference at that height either. 220 Central Park South (all stone) sold it's penthouse to Ken G for $200 million which is probably half the construction cost of OBP.

Originally Posted by r18tdi

Sure the precast instead of limestone cladding is a let down, but One Bennett is one of the highest quality recent high-rises in terms of interior design, detailing, artwork, layouts, amenities, and services. It's right on par with Tribune Tower and blows buildings like St. Regis, NEMA. Park Tower, 401 Wabash and One Chicago out of the water (in my experience having been inside all). A building as luxe and detailed as OBP wouldn't pencil out in 2023. They simply wouldn't build it now.

[HyperPower]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

And that's exactly why I said that no one should be surprised that 400 N LSD lost its terra cotta.

Had Related built OBP in NYC, it certainly would've been clad with real limestone.

Likewise, if this 400 N LSD project were being built there by Related too, the terrra-cotta probably would've stayed.

Ohh.. one wonders if the original terracotta cladded neo art-deco design would be built in Manhattan. Maybe 300 meters and around Central Park or Midtown East on the river...





The new design is still exceptional and has a great location to impact the entirety of Chi-Town's skyline

[r18tdi]

Originally Posted by BVictor1

Only a scant few see the inside... Everyone sees the outside.

And by that note, everyone can also enjoy the stone-clad base and park, which are quite wonderful.

[r18tdi]

Originally Posted by HyperPower

Ohh.. one wonders if the original terracotta cladded neo art-deco design would be built in Manhattan. Maybe 300 meters and around Central Park or Midtown East on the river...

Ignoring the height chop and loss of terracotta, this rendering also reminds me how much I miss the way the setbacks cascaded down the sides of the original design scheme and ended closer to the ground. There are a lot more setbacks now, but they are less dramatic and concentrated at the top. The new scheme loses that pleasing elongated wedding cake look.

[HyperPower]

Originally Posted by r18tdi

Ignoring the height chop and loss of terracotta, this rendering also reminds me how much I miss the way the setbacks cascaded down the sides of the original design scheme and ended closer to the ground. There are a lot more setbacks now, but they are less dramatic and concentrated at the top. The new scheme loses that pleasing elongated wedding cake look.

Certainly a 'First Chicago School' inspired duo of towers with the Bay Windows and Terracotta; traditional used in the Windy City. The Art Deco setbacks (wedding cake) relate more to New York laws circa 1930s which used more limestone with decorative accents + spandrels using stainless steel, aluminum and bronze.

Davis Childs designed this project as a personal gift to SOM's hometown of Chicago. Wish Related Midwest would wait for a better market to build the first iteration but with the loan for public housing and their bottom-line at play it appears they are pressing forward with development of the second iteration.

https://youtu.be/KJ-J1IWBYNQ?si=rqvD5lndiIzJ0VF_

[Steely Dan]

^ that's a slightly outdated rendering.

Here's the most recent image from the meeting last month.

The setbacks on the north tower have now been pulled even higher.

[pianowizard]

^ One effect is that fewer floors are now needed to achieve the same total square footage as before.

[sentinel]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ that's a slightly outdated rendering.

Here's the most recent image from the meeting last month.

The setbacks on the north tower have now been pulled even higher.

The current version looks...bustier..?

[Bonsai Tree]

I actually like the current version more. . .

[r18tdi]

I just worry these two will appear very slab-like from the north and south. The Navy Pier angle is by far the most flattering.

[Tom In Chicago]

I'm going to reserve my judgement on the execution of the final product, but I don't seem to mind the most recent design iteration. . .

. . .

[JK47]

This isn't the first time, and Related isn't the first developer, to roll out an interesting design with high quality materials only to water it down in multiple design iterations between zoning approval and actual construction. This constant bait-and-switch tactic where they produce interesting designs to ease the development past ward review boards and the zoning/plans commissions followed by value engineering that removes most of those elements is getting old.

I'm starting to wonder if zoning or plans approvals should be conditioned on delivering the design, as presented.

[Tom In Chicago]

There is no bait and switch. . . that's not how any of this works. . .

. . .