The future of Hamilton's public transit - Page 110

SteelTown · #**2181** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 12:16 AM**

Bus lane is killed.

Dr Awesomesauce · #**2182** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 12:45 AM**

Yay, Hamilton!!!

In all sincerity, City Council has never been more inconsequential than it is right now. WE DON'T NEED THESE HACKS ANYMORE! Forget the bus lane, this is what people should be seriously discussing - liquidate the lot of 'em!

Hell and I'm neither a libertarian nor an anarchist! I'm just weary of it all...

mishap · #**2183** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 2:57 AM**

I may need a refresher on local politics here, but...
Didn't the vote to kill the bus lane fail last week?
Do they not need a 2/3 majority to reconsider the issue?

mattgrande · #**2184** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 3:35 AM**

Wards affected by the bus lane support it.

Wards unrelated to it vote against it.

Can we have a city-wide debate for every transit improvement, roads project, etc in every ward? Why don't downtown residents get a say on other ward issues, but the whole city gets brought to the table for lower city issues.

durandy · #**2185** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 3:41 AM**

did Brenda Johnson vote against it? If so that just shows the sad trajectory councillors take from principle to pragmatism/ cynicism

durandy · #**2186** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 4:13 AM**

what a petty decision. Good to see all the newcomers and returnees to council voting for it, but how disappointing from the rest.

I'm bitter right now, but it seems to me you only see this kind of downtown vs the rest divide where something nice is being proposed for downtown. Propose a widened highway 6 or money for clappison's corners and you don't see the wards not directly benefitting banding together in opposition.

CaptainKirk · #**2187** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 1:34 PM**

What a weird spectacle. great, passioned speeches for the bus lane.

Uninspired, somewhat irrelevant arguments against, ( Duvall) and an almost embarrassed and sheepish vote against.

The divide is killing this city. De-amalgmamatin or proprtional representation is the best thing that could happen.

flar · #**2188** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 1:42 PM**

Dysfunctional, parochial, petty, stupid. These are some of the words I'd use to describe Hamilton council.

I have photo thread coming up that will thoroughly embarrass the city regarding its transportation priorities.

SteelTown · #**2189** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 1:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mishap

I may need a refresher on local politics here, but...
Didn't the vote to kill the bus lane fail last week?
Do they not need a 2/3 majority to reconsider the issue?

For the 2/3 question I was glad it was asked during council meeting. So the answer is yes it'll require 2/3 votes to bring back the bus lanes. However, if there's any changes to the bus lanes than it'll just need a simple majority.

SteelTown · #**2190** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 1:49 PM**

FYI, HSR staff will present a 10 year plan for growth in February and it was suggested by the HSR manager that it'll include bus lanes. So we could eventually see the bus lanes come back if council approves the plan.

Just a total waste of money and time. Council should have deferred the bus lane decision.

However, I've noticed every single motion brought forward to defer the bus lane decidion had strings attached such as improving the bus lanes. A motion should have been introduced with a decision to defer the bus lane decision and allow staff to come back with improvement ideas (don't allow council to make the decision). I think this was a big mistake Farr, Green, Merulla, Johnson and Eisenberger all made.

CaptainKirk · #**2191** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 2:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by durandy

did Brenda Johnson vote against it?

In favour of killing bus-only lane:

Chad Collins

Tom Jackson

Terry Whitehead

Scot Duvall

Rob Pasuta

Judi Partridge

Doug Conley

Arlene VanderBeek

Lloyd Ferguson

Opposed:

Fred Eisenberger

Matthew Green

Aidan Johnson

Sam Merulla

Maria Pearson

Jason Farr

Brenda Johnson

mattgrande · #**2192** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 3:32 PM**

From @brundle_fly / Alistair J Morton

durandy · #**2193** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 4:07 PM**

Thanks. So who flipped? I thought this was 8-6 last time with two no-shows. If the no-shows split there must have been a couple flippers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainKirk

In favour of killing bus-only lane:

Chad Collins

Tom Jackson

Terry Whitehead

Scot Duvall

Rob Pasuta

Judi Partridge

Doug Conley

Arlene VanderBeek

Lloyd Ferguson

Opposed:

Fred Eisenberger

Matthew Green

Aidan Johnson

Sam Merulla

Maria Pearson

Jason Farr

Brenda Johnson

Beedok · #**2194** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 4:35 PM**

Yay ward 11?

SteelTown · #**2195** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 4:39 PM**

Brenda wasn't at the last council meeting so she didn't flip. She used to work for Environment Canada so not surprised.

Partridge wasn't at the last council meeting as well.

ScreamingViking · #**2196** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 5:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown

FYI, HSR staff will present a 10 year plan for growth in February and it was suggested by the HSR manager that it'll include bus lanes. So we could eventually see the bus lanes come back if council approves the plan.

Just a total waste of money and time. Council should have deferred the bus lane decision.

However, I've noticed every single motion brought forward to defer the bus lane decidion had strings attached such as improving the bus lanes. A motion should have been introduced with a decision to defer the bus lane decision and allow staff to come back with improvement ideas (don't allow council to make the decision). I think this was a big mistake Farr, Green, Merulla, Johnson and Eisenberger all made.

I agree - they should have deferred.

Re: the long term planning, I have pessimism that approval of a plan will mean much for specific elements. There will still be plenty of opportunity to hem and haw and niggle over individual items (didn't they approve a plan for widespread conversion of many one-way streets to two-way over 10 years ago? yet debate about implementing them case-by-case rages on... to the point some councilors have become "exhausted"

)

I can envision one of the usual suspects, in a future debate over transit, pointing to the "failure" of this bus lane as an argument against the next one.

durandy · #**2197** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 5:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Brenda wasn't at the last council meeting so she didn't flip. She used to work for Environment Canada so not surprised.

Partridge wasn't at the last council meeting as well.

two no-shows, Johnson and Partridge split so of the former 8 councillors not opposed to killing the lane, which became opposed?

SteelTown · #**2198** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 6:00 PM**

^ I believe that would be Whitehead.

He never really supported killing the bus lanes. Originally he wanted to suspend the bus lanes until after the February report. But his motion was defeated.

oldcoote · #**2199** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 6:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

I can envision one of the usual suspects, in a future debate over transit, pointing to the "failure" of this bus lane as an argument against the next one.

100%. If you can't sell a 2km stretch of TOL, how will they sell LRT?

Incredibly stupid precedent.

ScreamingViking · #**2200** Posted **Jan 22, 2015, 7:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldcoote

100%. If you can't sell a 2km stretch of TOL, how will they sell LRT?

Incredibly stupid precedent.

Of course, the fact it "failed" due to council biases, dithering and lack of vision will be forgotten.

Some on council do not want to be sold.