HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > London > London Issues, Business, Politics & the Economy


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #201  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 1:56 AM
Djeffery Djeffery is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: London
Posts: 4,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo26 View Post
Putting Wharncliffe under Oxford is a great idea in principle, but how would cars heading southbound or northbound on Wharncliffe turn on to Oxford?
I think his original premise was there would be no access from one to the other.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #202  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 1:57 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 25,164
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpstairsCranberry View Post

If London is supposedly a car city, why does it have the highest ridership around? It has less than 1/2 the population as Ottawa, yet they both have the same ridership numbers.
Unless I missed something and LTC has > 90 million riders annually, this is definitely not true.

http://www.octranspo.com/about-octra...orts_and_stats

Ottawa has peak transit mode share on par with Toronto or Montreal.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #203  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 2:12 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 25,164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo26 View Post
Putting Wharncliffe under Oxford is a great idea in principle, but how would cars heading southbound or northbound on Wharncliffe turn on to Oxford?
Unless London is paying for this, there's no way the province is paying tens of millions to grade separate this:

https://goo.gl/maps/DZUUyodX47s

That's a regular major intersection in most of the GTA. If they are doing this for London, they had better be prepared to spend tens of billions doing the same for the rest of the province.

Rail grade separations like CP-Adelaide are funded for reasons of safety and efficiency of the rail operators. Not because of traffic.

Last edited by Truenorth00; Oct 25, 2018 at 3:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #204  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 3:03 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 25,164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupcheck View Post
We are not that bad, I still would rather live and raise my family in London ON than anywhere in GTA.
Will you still say that if traffic gets as bad or worse? That's the question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupcheck View Post
That said, I still think we do a lot of tasks backwards in our city. What drives me nuts the most is the traffic congestion is getting worse every year. It takes 30 minutes to drive 5 to 10 km of distance on average at rush hour.
It's only going to get worse. That 30 min drive is going to be a 40 min drive in about 5-10 years.

But, hey, that's what Londoners are voting for.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #205  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 9:52 AM
Stevo26 Stevo26 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Will you still say that if traffic gets as bad or worse? That's the question.



It's only going to get worse. That 30 min drive is going to be a 40 min drive in about 5-10 years.

But, hey, that's what Londoners are voting for.
Yep, exactly right. They didn't want to put up with the temporary inconveniences BRT construction might have entailed, but couldn't make the connection between having no BRT or at least much better transit and thus avoiding the problem of worsening traffic, nor could they foresee it.

The politicians who ran for the mayor's job could have done a better job of selling BRT if they had wanted to, but instead they behaved opportunistically and capitalized on all the misinformation about BRT that's been swirling around for so long.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #206  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 10:58 AM
Djeffery Djeffery is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: London
Posts: 4,761
Let's not get crazy and say "Londoners voted against BRT". There is hardly a large showing of that. Paul Cheng was the loudest anti-BRT guy, and he got barely half of the votes he got last time. Stephen Orser and Bud Polhill were popular former councillors running on "NO BRT" and they got soundly defeated. Paul Van Meerbergen was a former multi term councillor and one who consistenly got among the highest vote totals of candidates across the city. He didn't lose by much in 2014, so it's no big shock he regained the seat, even if he didn't campaign against BRT. Several of the pro-BRT candidates were re-elected. And I believe that at least 2 of the new councillors are pro-BRT as well.

I don't think the plan is dead at all. I think they might make a couple tweaks to it here and there, to "fix what was wrong with it before", enough to say they had a hand in it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #207  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 2:02 PM
Dupcheck's Avatar
Dupcheck Dupcheck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: London
Posts: 255
Turdeau is not winning next year. He is putting 2000+ London ON jobs to risk and got a weak NAFTA 2 deal.

https://lfpress.com/news/national/ca...6-21ae00458186
__________________
Kick Bureaucracy in the Nardz
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #208  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 2:48 PM
Stevo26 Stevo26 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupcheck View Post
Turdeau is not winning next year. He is putting 2000+ London ON jobs to risk and got a weak NAFTA 2 deal.

https://lfpress.com/news/national/ca...6-21ae00458186
The government could conceivably cancel the Saudi arms deal and see if there might be another buyer for the armoured vehicles. Or they could just stump up the $15 billion and give the vehicles to the military which would probably love to have them.

It all boils down to how important keeping those jobs is and the need to sanction Saudi Arabia for its reprehensible behaviour.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #209  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 2:55 PM
Stevo26 Stevo26 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djeffery View Post
Let's not get crazy and say "Londoners voted against BRT". There is hardly a large showing of that. Paul Cheng was the loudest anti-BRT guy, and he got barely half of the votes he got last time. Stephen Orser and Bud Polhill were popular former councillors running on "NO BRT" and they got soundly defeated. Paul Van Meerbergen was a former multi term councillor and one who consistenly got among the highest vote totals of candidates across the city. He didn't lose by much in 2014, so it's no big shock he regained the seat, even if he didn't campaign against BRT. Several of the pro-BRT candidates were re-elected. And I believe that at least 2 of the new councillors are pro-BRT as well.

I don't think the plan is dead at all. I think they might make a couple tweaks to it here and there, to "fix what was wrong with it before", enough to say they had a hand in it.
Maybe not, but if the 'Platform' section of Ed Holder's website is anything to go by, it pretty much spells out what is going to be done about public transit in London - which is little or nothing.

The only hope we have now of rescuing BRT is that the pro-BRT councillors may try to sway Holder into pursuing it, even if it means possibly stretching out the timeline for construction, or making changes he would support.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #210  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 3:56 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 25,164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupcheck View Post
Turdeau is not winning next year. He is putting 2000+ London ON jobs to risk and got a weak NAFTA 2 deal.

https://lfpress.com/news/national/ca...6-21ae00458186
Cause London is truly representative of all of Canada?

I don't know whether Trudeau wins or loses. But extrapolating from one small/medium city is rather ridiculous.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #211  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 4:16 PM
Dupcheck's Avatar
Dupcheck Dupcheck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: London
Posts: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Cause London is truly representative of all of Canada?

I don't know whether Trudeau wins or loses. But extrapolating from one small/medium city is rather ridiculous.
Maybe/Maybe Not, London is known as a test market for new businesses and new political idea tryouts like Ranked Voting for example... If it does not work in London, most probably will not work elsewhere in Canada. Do some research and learn more about our city. My assumption still stands. If Trudeau looses London, he will loose the next election...
__________________
Kick Bureaucracy in the Nardz
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #212  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 5:02 PM
haljackey's Avatar
haljackey haljackey is online now
User Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 3,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyeman200 View Post
LOL, that's another issue. I hate to say it but London drivers are the absolute worst. I don't understand how the left lane, which is a fast lane, turned into a slow moving lane. I don't understand why people drive under the speed limit or at the speed limit when you can go 10-15 above the limit and be fine. I don't understand why when people turn left they brake before going into the lane, You're supposed to go into the turn lane and THEN brake, & on that note, if you're turning right and someone is turning left or there is an advance you can go if there is 2 lanes. The person turning left is supposed to stay in the left lane, and the person turning right is supposed to stay in the right lane.

I bitch about this a lot but I basically drive around jobsite to jobsite for my job, and the most stressful part is the driving. It's ridiculous bigger cities with more volumes of traffic and more people can manage better traffic flow than London.
Everyone says their city's drivers/roads/traffic is the worst.

I use an insurance app on my phone that gives me a hefty discount for good driving. If it detects that I'm going 10 km/h over the speed limit, I get a terrible score (even get dinged a bit with 5+ km/h but that's hard). Same goes for braking too hard, accelerating too quick, turning /cornering too harshly.

The app has actually helped me become a better driver because I drive more economically, which saves in fuel use too in addition to less wear and tear. The only problem is when other drivers slam on their breaks or cut me off.

Getting back on topic, I expect a do-nothing approach to roads and transit with Holder. Maybe a new route or two to industrial areas, maybe a road widening or two during his term, but that's it.
__________________
My Twitter

My Simcity Stuff
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #213  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 8:29 PM
Wharn's Avatar
Wharn Wharn is offline
Torontonian Refugee
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Oxy County
Posts: 982
Just to actually be on topic... seems like plus que ca change, plus que ca reste la meme in London. Holder is in and the house has been cleaned somewhat, but I don't see any new or visionary policies being proposed. Just the same old kind of mediocrity. I used to get angry with this sort of thinking but I've just given up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
Yes KW and Hamilton built their inner-city expressways which is why you have, especially in KW, a bunch of disjointed neighbourhoods and lower per-capita transit ridership. Neither of those cities are even remotely as nice or livable as London. Hamilton still has it/s ugly Steeltown reputation and KW is seen as one big suburban office park and a bunch of malls connected by freeways.

I know weed was legalized and all but you should slow down with the smoking, my friend!

Your characterization of Kitchener-Waterloo is, based off my observation, unfair and incorrect. The city has a very vibrant main commercial street and a number of others nodes that are supported both by locals and university students. Some neighbourhoods are cut off from the rest of the city by the expressway system, but this is really no different from London, where there are neighbourhoods that have been isolated by the river or the rail lines. I would actually say that it's much easier to get around the place. As for the lower transit ridership (I should point out the GRT is closing the gap with the LTC), this could be ascribed to a) the fact that Waterloo is a more prosperous and less economically fucked-up region, so more people have cars, and b) more of the Waterloo student population lives close to campus and makes use of commercial establishments that are also close to campus, reducing the necessity to use transit.

Hamilton has an ugly steel town reputation, but whenever I go there, I see a little mini Toronto with a really cool restaurant scene and a lot of other things to do. Hammerites take a lot of pride in their city and are generally more ambitious than Londoners. Because they actually recognize that they live in a city and not just a huge village. They care about the future of their city and they're willing to fight for it. As a result, Hamilton is an extremely desirable city; sure it was on the brink at one point but it's coming back fast. I would actually be more inclined to locate there in the future after years of unfairly characterizing it, like you just did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
London should have built a more suburban across-town freeway especially north/southbut thank God Londoners cared enough about their city to not allow hundreds of homes to be destroyed and communties ripped apart.
A few years ago, I made a post detailing some of London's transportation master plans through the years (can't find it now but I assume it is still here somewhere). Initially they planned to sort of "Freeway the Thames", but that was quickly replaced by a proposal to build a highway around the city, on what was then open farmland north of Windermere Road. I assume hundreds of rabbit warrens would be destroyed a la Watership Down, but as for human homes, not too sure that would be an accurate figure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Unless I missed something and LTC has > 90 million riders annually, this is definitely not true.
Last I checked the LTC had about 22 million rides on an annual basis. Which is down about 2M from 2014. So yeah... no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haljackey View Post
I use an insurance app on my phone that gives me a hefty discount for good driving. If it detects that I'm going 10 km/h over the speed limit, I get a terrible score (even get dinged a bit with 5+ km/h but that's hard). Same goes for braking too hard, accelerating too quick, turning /cornering too harshly.
As someone who drives like a Montrealer, this is my idea of a terrifying Orwellian future.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #214  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 9:22 PM
haljackey's Avatar
haljackey haljackey is online now
User Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 3,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wharn View Post
As someone who drives like a Montrealer, this is my idea of a terrifying Orwellian future.
TD Insurance is watching you

Good comments by the way. Every city has pros and cons. London's certainly come from roads and transit among other things. However, it's relatively calm and stable which can be a good thing.

Hamilton has really bounced back and K-W is the hoppin' place to be.
__________________
My Twitter

My Simcity Stuff
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #215  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 9:36 PM
Djeffery Djeffery is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: London
Posts: 4,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wharn View Post
A few years ago, I made a post detailing some of London's transportation master plans through the years (can't find it now but I assume it is still here somewhere). Initially they planned to sort of "Freeway the Thames", but that was quickly replaced by a proposal to build a highway around the city, on what was then open farmland north of Windermere Road. I assume hundreds of rabbit warrens would be destroyed a la Watership Down, but as for human homes, not too sure that would be an accurate figure.
As I understand it, this being a bit (not much) before my time, the 402 was supposed to skirt around the north side of the city, maybe even on the highway 22 roadway from Strathroy, and come down to the 401 at Highway 100 (now Veterans Memorial Parkway). I've also heard some old timers say the 402 was supposed to run all the way to the 403 north of the city and around the north east side of Woodstock to approximately where it meets the 401 now. Of course, if that were the case, we would just be talking about a lack of highway access in the southwest today. Although we could also be talking about a western highway link between the 402 and 401 today if that hadn't happened by now.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #216  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 11:46 PM
tyeman200's Avatar
tyeman200 tyeman200 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallerIsBetter View Post
Anyone else have bold ideas?
Re configuring the entire LTC. We have 39 regular bus routes, which I think is overkill for our city. I'd like to see that at 15-20 routes instead, with more frequent buses on those routes.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #217  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2018, 12:01 AM
tyeman200's Avatar
tyeman200 tyeman200 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallerIsBetter View Post
We can still build a transit system that would be the backbone of an extended reach into the neighborhoods etc. See my posts. The problem was the dedicated lanes that would make driving cars worse, and going up Richmond causes issues (there is nothing 'rapid" about snaking through campus). Do something up Wharncliffe/Western without dedicated lanes and you avoid the train issue. Widen Wharncliffe/Western (that bridge should have be six lanes!) and add bus bays and you have a fast corridor for 5 minute frequency. Also do something similar between downtown and old east. I'm not against mass transit, and I'd be willing to pay more for it. What I, and I suspect others are against is the Anti-Car undercurrent and a plan that doesn't make driving better for drivers through road enhancement. People would be happy to pay for that.
Why can't they extend Richmond? from what I can see, you could definitely fit 2 more lanes from richmond/oxford to richmond/masonville.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #218  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2018, 2:04 AM
Stevo26 Stevo26 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyeman200 View Post
Why can't they extend Richmond? from what I can see, you could definitely fit 2 more lanes from richmond/oxford to richmond/masonville.
Heritage properties, for a start. And the need to expropriate portions of property owned by people who live along that section of Richmond and would complain about the damage that might be done to the 'character' of the neighbourhood.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #219  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2018, 2:04 AM
Djeffery Djeffery is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: London
Posts: 4,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyeman200 View Post
Why can't they extend Richmond? from what I can see, you could definitely fit 2 more lanes from richmond/oxford to richmond/masonville.
That was one of the options looked at. Don't recall the reason why they didn't go with it, other than local opposition.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #220  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2018, 2:07 AM
Djeffery Djeffery is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: London
Posts: 4,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyeman200 View Post
Re configuring the entire LTC. We have 39 regular bus routes, which I think is overkill for our city. I'd like to see that at 15-20 routes instead, with more frequent buses on those routes.
I know my kids, and their friends in the neighbourhood, would love to see the 5 Springbank bus connect Byron directly to Westmount Mall. Presently, you could walk from Westmount to Boler and Baseline quicker than getting there by the 2 buses you have to take.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > London > London Issues, Business, Politics & the Economy
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:21 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.