Shift: London's Rapid Transit Initiative

[MolsonExport]

Politicians either don't get it or they don't care: The bus is uncomfortable and slow at the best of times, and downright fucking horrible at the worst of times. Riding for 30 minutes, holding on to the overhead bar for dear life while being jostled by people getting on and off as you stand cheek to jowl with your fellow riders. I hate the bus. Relied on it for most of my high school, college, undergrad, master's and PhD days (seemingly half my life).

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Politicians either don't get it or they don't care: The bus is uncomfortable and slow at the best of times, and downright fucking horrible at the worst of times. Riding for 30 minutes, holding on to the overhead bar for dear life while being jostled by people getting on and off as you stand cheek to jowl with your fellow riders. I hate the bus. Relied on it for most of my high school, college, undergrad, master's and PhD days (seemingly half my life).

Probably because none of them take the bus. If we were to make the ones who were opposed to LRT have to use a bus for a couple days, they would probably end up voting for LRT.

I have to agree, my first year of college was a bitch and a half to get there and back. Plus the fact that the buses don't run well, so most times I was stuck downtown for half an hour, or had to walk 15-20 minutes to my house.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Politicians either don't get it or they don't care: The bus is uncomfortable and slow at the best of times, and downright fucking horrible at the worst of times. Riding for 30 minutes, holding on to the overhead bar for dear life while being jostled by people getting on and off as you stand cheek to jowl with your fellow riders. I hate the bus. Relied on it for most of my high school, college, undergrad, master's and PhD days (seemingly half my life).

There is no question for the people that have actually rode both services for extended periods of time, LRT is just better, it does everything BRT does but better, cheaper to operate and maintain and typically will attract more ridership.

I am glad the free press seems to be picking up a lot of pro LRT article, and glad to see some of the London counsil standing up for what they know is the right choice.
http://www.lfpress.com/2016/05/16/backer...weighs-public-session-on-transit-options

Lets all be honest, if they build BRT even though the claim is "it could be upgraded to LRT easily" it will never happen. Now you have hundreds of buses, warehousing/garage space, employee's etc all tied to those buses you are not going to just get rid of them....maybe 50 years from now but not anytime soon.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Things could be worse - we could be Windsor.

[MrSlippery519]

At least they have a freeway haah

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

I am glad the free press seems to be picking up a lot of pro LRT article, and glad to see some of the London counsil standing up for what they know is the right choice.
http://www.lfpress.com/2016/05/16/backer...weighs-public-session-on-transit-options

Lets all be honest, if they build BRT even though the claim is "it could be upgraded to LRT easily" it will never happen. Now you have hundreds of buses, warehousing/garage space, employee's etc all tied to those buses you are not going to just get rid of them....maybe 50 years from now but not anytime soon.

yup. I am pleased with the pro-LRT article, but I am afraid that the minds of senior city administrators are already made up. So unfortunate that they caught the chronic disease that is endemic to London: Thinking small and living in the past.

[Underground100]

In tonight's full Council meeting, the Council voted unanimously 15-0 to hold a public participation meeting on Shift and its business case.

https://twitter.com/jesse_helmer/status/732679812821749760

[MolsonExport]

very impressed with the bold leadership shown by Jesse Helmer for this initiative.

[haljackey]

Keeping the dream alive.

I recently read that the province is paying 100% for Hamilton's 1 billion dollar LRT line. If we actually approve the thing, we might actually get the funding for it!

[jaradthescot]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Keeping the dream alive.

I recently read that the province is paying 100% for Hamilton's 1 billion dollar LRT line. If we actually approve the thing, we might actually get the funding for it!

Mississauga's too. And K-W's is not fully funded, but they are getting more funding from the provs/feds in total than we are asking.

[haljackey]

• Video Link

[haljackey]

Last ditch effort

Rapid Transit Public Participation Meeting - May 26

https://www.facebook.com/events/1075786512485444/

https://www.london.ca/calendar/Pages/Shift-PPM-.aspx

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by haljackey

• Video Link

I am very tempted to join that Facebook group and bring the perspective forward of a former Londoner - a Millennial - who chose not to pursue a career and life in London in part because of its horrible public transit and lack of planning towards light rail or at least BRT (though the city's job market 4-5 years ago was the primary motivation; I figured that without a mass transit plan the city would have a limited capacity to attract good jobs in the coming years while all the opportunities would increasingly be in the GTHA and Ottawa). At the time I chose to leave, Waterloo light rail was already approved to start construction and Dale Henderson was running an election campaign that included opposition to BRT in his platform.

[Stevo26]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I am very tempted to join that Facebook group and bring the perspective forward of a former Londoner - a Millennial - who chose not to pursue a career and life in London in part because of its horrible public transit and lack of planning towards light rail or at least BRT (though the city's job market 4-5 years ago was the primary motivation; I figured that without a mass transit plan the city would have a limited capacity to attract good jobs in the coming years while all the opportunities would increasingly be in the GTHA and Ottawa). At the time I chose to leave, Waterloo light rail was already approved to start construction and Dale Henderson was running an election campaign that included opposition to BRT in his platform.

One thing I cannot understand about the rapid transit project is why London is showing such timidity in approaching upper-tier governments for money to fund it.

Regardless of the system that gets built, London's costs are capped at $125 million, while the feds and the province pick up the rest of the tab. Amortized over ten years, that $125 million works out to just $12.9 million per year, an amount that is well within the city's financial capacity.

London is Canada's 11th largest city. As such, it should be pressing hard for a reasonable share of the infrastructure dollars that exist, and raising holy hell if the request is denied. The city deserves to be treated as well as other municipalities are in their efforts to upgrade their public transit systems.

I say this because Londoners were instrumental in helping the Liberal party get into office at the provincial and federal levels during the last federal and provincial elections. In other words, the Liberals owe us, dammit!

I'm beginning to think that once again, we have a city council that lacks real vision and is desperate to play things super-safe to avoid any possible criticism. You don't achieve great things by playing it safe, you have to take risks. It's either this, or city council and its advisors and engineering and planning staff are incompetent and can't figure out how to manage
the construction of a rapid-transit system.

[MrSlippery519]

Council lacks vision or is to afraid to pursue it, either way if you don't ask you will never get what you want.

Another pro rail article... http://www.lfpress.com/2016/05/20/light-...ower-air-pollution-health-unit-boss-says

[Stevo26]

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

Council lacks vision or is to afraid to pursue it, either way if you don't ask you will never get what you want.

Another pro rail article... http://www.lfpress.com/2016/05/20/light-...ower-air-pollution-health-unit-boss-says

In the article, Brown is quoted as saying,

“The good news is that the BRT system can get started sooner, so we will see the benefits sooner, too.”

Brown is full of shit. Laying down permanent way for LRT vehicles doesn't take any longer to get started. Once the route has been decided, it's a matter of digging a shallow trench, laying down supports for the track, laying down the track and then adding in the overhead electrification system. It's not rocket science. Creating a BRT system isn't that much easier.

The TTC lay down new street car lines all the time, and they don't stop and say, "Gee, we need to do more study and environmental assessments before we launch into this. Let's get started on a BRT system first."

If BRT is really the best way, then people need to ask themselves a question before saying 'yes' to that proposition. That is, if BRT really is the best, then why haven't scores of European cities adopted it over LRT?
In fairness, part of the reason why is that their streets are narrower; very few European cities have grand promenades that look like Oxford or Wellington streets here in London.

You might point to the Brazilian city of Curitiba as an example of why BRT is better, but the Brazilians opted for BRT because they're poor and can't afford anything better.

My thinking is that Brown has been spooked by something and is now backing off from the LRT proposition for that reason. What could that 'something' be?

[MolsonExport]

LRT is not coming to London. Nothing good comes to London, aka Carland. Big Box Land. Hollowing out land. Sprawlsville. The place with buttfuckall to do, on account of the overwhelming car culture.

End of rant. After getting excited at the possibility of LRT, I am now just so pissed off with the about face shown by our city leaders. I can't even begin to express my disappointment.

Light rail is less about moving people, and more about building the type of city we want for the future.

I am sick of my city looking like this:

deveng, smartcentre

[Stevo26]

Molson Export writes:

LRT is not coming to London. Nothing good comes to London, aka Carland. Big Box Land. Hollowing out land. Sprawlsville. The place with buttfuckall to do, on account of the overwhelming car culture.

End of rant. After getting excited at the possibility of LRT, I am now just so pissed off with the about face shown by our city leaders. I can't even begin to express my disappointment.

Light rail is less about moving people, and more about building the type of city we want for the future.

One thing that really struck me about the picture of the 'smart centre' located up in Hyde Park is how much more room it takes compared to a typical shopping mall, and yet there are fewer stores found in such an arrangement. Seems awfully wasteful to me. There's a big box centre located not far from where I live, and the parking lots are rarely full, meaning there's a lot of wasted space going on.

I agree, London's car culture blows dead bears. One complaint I've always had about London is how grey, empty and concrete most of it appears, even the suburban areas. There seems to be little sense of art, or a desire to present the city in a visually appealing way. Maybe I've lived here too long and am simply feeling jaded by the sameness of it all.

I don't use public transit, but I still want to see London create a really good system. Simply because there may come a day when I can't drive and need to rely on public transit, and millennials don't want to own a car and are going to demand excellent public transit services and will move elsewhere if all they are offered is mediocre service.

London has only one chance to get this right, and the decision that gets made is going to cement London's future for better or worse. LRT costs less to run over the long run, and the infrastructure lasts longer.

[ssiguy]

So when is the vote?

[MolsonExport]

the outcome is a foregone conclusion.

Sorry Mayor Brown, you've now lost my vote for the next election.