National Capital Region Beer News

[phil235]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

The "big players" (in beer) are large multinational corporations with a monopoly (who btw export their profits out of the country), so trying to defend that model is just a tad difficult.

I honestly don't think LCBO employees are "better trained" to handle the underage problem. One of my last visits to LCBO directly in front of me there was a very young "rough looking" person who was asked for ID. He said, "is a Passport ok?" (like really.. a shady looking young person is carrying around a Passport as his only ID?) Anyway, I saw the passport had a cut-off corner (i.e. it was expired.. and in all likelihood doctored), but the clerk didn't question it at all. I mentioned this to the clerk, and he just gave me a "so what" kind of look.

Anything after LCBO expenses goes to the government... correct. However, money from public to government is a TAX (just by another name). LCBO employees work for the government... so it's just a "hidden" tax.

Anyway, my point remains. I have seen little, if any, evidence that all the bureaucracy (and huge costs and "inconvenience" to the public) around liquor sales in Ontario and Quebec are worth the expense (and most of the world agrees btw, except Sweden and perhaps a few other countries and provinces). It's just another transfer of funds from the public to the government, with very little gain to the public in general.

Agreed that it is hard to defend the Beer Store now that it is foreign owned. I just meant that with that model, it is much easier for the government to mandate giving shelf space to micro brews, which it does.

It's a matter of perspective, but I don't buy that the expenses of a revenue-generating corporation that provides a service to the public is a hidden tax. If it is truly more expensive to run than a private sector network, then maybe you could argue some of their expenses are a tax, but I've seen nothing to suggest that there is a great additional cost doing it the way we do. Transportation and regulation (licensing and inspection) are two obvious areas where the private model is going to be more expensive, without the public good benefit of profit going to the government and a really strong recycling program.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by phil235

Agreed that it is hard to defend the Beer Store now that it is foreign owned. I just meant that with that model, it is much easier for the government to mandate giving shelf space to micro brews, which it does.

It's a matter of perspective, but I don't buy that the expenses of a revenue-generating corporation that provides a service to the public is a hidden tax. If it is truly more expensive to run than a private sector network, then maybe you could argue some of their expenses are a tax, but I've seen nothing to suggest that there is a great additional cost doing it the way we do. Transportation and regulation (licensing and inspection) are two obvious areas where the private model is going to be more expensive, without the public good benefit of profit going to the government and a really strong recycling program.

A non-trivial real estate footprint (LCBO and Beer Store) in some pretty prime locations, combined with unionized government employees is definitely, by any definition, a "great additional cost". Honestly, Walmart has a pretty good selection here.. including local craft beers. Just don't expect high end wines and spirits

My point still remains.. just dump the ENTIRE bureaucracy... and add a 100% (or whatever) sales tax to booze. Ontario gets its money, and the public is not any worse off. What is wrong with this model?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

My point still remains.. just dump the ENTIRE bureaucracy... and add a 100% (or whatever) sales tax to booze. Ontario gets its money, and the public is not any worse off. What is wrong with this model?

Are you suggesting that the sale of alcohol wouldn't be regulated at all (i.e. anyone could sell it without a license and no one would check if they are selling to minors or inebriated people)? That's the only way you would have no bureaucracy. Not sure most people would be willing to go that far, as there are pretty solid reasons for regulating. Also, tax collection ain't free.

As for unionized employees, I'm okay with paying a bit more for alcohol so people actually make a decent living. Expanding the minimum wage economy isn't a gain for society in my opinion.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by phil235

Are you suggesting that the sale of alcohol wouldn't be regulated at all (i.e. anyone could sell it without a license and no one would check if they are selling to minors or inebriated people)? That's the only way you would have no bureaucracy. Not sure most people would be willing to go that far, as there are pretty solid reasons for regulating. Also, tax collection ain't free.

Well.. anyone can walk into any gas station in Ontario and buy cigarettes. What controls are there around that? Yes.. there is some bureaucracy (and costs) but is it really a big stretch to extend that to alcohol? There are of course responsibility concerns, but my point remains…. And I reemphasize that the very valid concerns regarding underage and inappropriate sales really aren’t an issue here…. So what do all those very expensive regulations get us in the end? Again, underage drinking and alcoholism are no different here than Ontario.

If there are such solid reasons for regulating, I’m simply pointing out that I’ve lived in the opposite side of that for 4 years now.. and there doesn’t seem to be any concern from anyone living in that environment.

Originally Posted by phil235

As for unionized employees, I'm okay with paying a bit more for alcohol so people actually make a decent living. Expanding the minimum wage economy isn't a gain for society in my opinion.

That’s of course a very slippery slope. Why not unionize, regulate, and make grocery and restaurant employees public sector workers for a start.. so everyone makes a “living” wage?

[AuxTown]

I see no value add when it comes to the beer store monopoly. They sell me a selection of brands (mostly owned by them) and the product is nowhere near as complicated as wine. LCBO, on the other hand, has a lot of upside. They are the largest purchaser of alcohol in the world by $$ and the 3rd largest by volume (behind Walmart and Costco). As a result, they have a massive team of wine consultants, sommeliers, and tasters. They are able to curate an amazing variety of products and can (though I don't know if they do) negotiate very good prices due to the size of their orders. I find it frustrating buying wine in the US as I never know who are the reputable stores and often find myself disappointed in their offerings. Anyway, if both disappeared, I would hope that Costco would start selling beer and wine in Ontario. At least it would be cheap!

[harls]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

Anyway, if both disappeared, I would hope that Costco would start selling beer and wine in Ontario. At least it would be cheap!

At the Gatineau Costco, I don't find their beer and wine offerings that much cheaper than the grocery store. There is probably a minimum price they can charge by law.

[LDROttawa]

Not sure if folks saw it, but Good Prospects Brewing Company is closing. I'm not completely surprised - a saturated market, rising costs, and less disposable income due to inflation is hitting the industry hard. Not to mention, their beer wasn't always consistent. I don't think this will be the last local brewery closure over the next year.

From their Facebook page:

It's with a heavy heart we are announcing our final weekend as Good Prospects Brewing. The doors are going to close for a little while, but something new and exciting will take our place.

The support and love from the community has been fantastic and we will miss seeing you all at the tap room. As we turn the page on this chapter we hope you'll welcome the new team that will be brewing in the days to come.
Cheers! 🍻

Our last day will be Saturday November 25. Open 1-10pm.

[J.OT13]

In the Government being incredibly stupid with our money news. Doug Ford working for all Ontarians.

Ontario speeds up alcohol expansion; province will pay The Beer Store up to $225M

TORONTO - Ontario is speeding up its expansion of alcohol sales in the province, and the move comes with up to $225 million in public money for The Beer Store.

By Liam Casey and Allison Jones The Canadian Press

TORONTO - Ontario is speeding up its expansion of alcohol sales in the province, and the move comes with up to $225 million in public money for The Beer Store.

Premier Doug Ford announced late last year that sales of beer, wine, cider and ready-to-drink cocktails would be allowed in convenience stores and all grocery stores by 2026.

He announced Friday that the phased expansion will now start on Aug. 1 of this year, with licensed grocery stores that currently sell beer, cider and wine able to sell ready-to-drink cocktails and sell large-pack sizes like 30 packs.

After Sept. 5, eligible convenience stores will be able to sell beer, cider, wine and ready-to-drink cocktails, and after Oct. 31, all grocery stores and big box stores could sell those products, including large-pack sizes. Over time, the changes will add up to 8,500 new places where people in Ontario could buy alcohol, the government said.

“People are excited they’re going to enjoy the same choice and convenience as other Canadians and other people right across the world to buy a case of beer or a bottle of wine on the way up to the cottage,” Ford said at an announcement Friday.

“Or maybe you’re going to start up the grill in the backyard or (have a) summer barbecue. They’re excited to hear that they’re finally being treated as adults.”

An agreement the former Liberal government signed with The Beer Store in 2015, which gave the company exclusive rights to sell 12- and 24-packs of beer as the province expanded sales of beer and wine to grocery stores, was set to expire at the end of 2025.


As part of this new, earlier rollout of Ford’s plan to expand alcohol sales, an “early implementation agreement” signed with The Beer Store involves the province paying the company up to $225 million to support the transition, including to help it keep stores open and workers employed.

Ford disputed a characterization that the money is going to the companies that jointly own The Beer Store, though the agreement specifies “the province shall reimburse TBS” for added costs up to that amount.

“We aren’t giving them to the Molsons of the world and the Labatts, that they put the money in their pocket and say, ‘See you later,’” Ford said.

“So that’s not accurate. What we’re doing, we’re supporting the front-line workers at The Beer Store ... we’re going to be audited every step of the way, to make sure that it’s being distributed in the right fashion.”

Finance Minister Peter Bethlenfalvy said the money will “help maintain perhaps unprofitable Beer Stores.”

“This is going as part of the agreement to unwind that 10-year monopoly that the previous government, the Liberal government signed,” he said.

“This is always about having as much of an orderly transition as possible, minimizing disruption and giving a chance to adjust to the new world.”

Part of the new agreement with The Beer Store includes keeping at least 386 stores open until July 2025 and at least 300 until Dec. 31, 2025, Bethlenfalvy’s office said.

The Beer Store, which is owned by three international companies, will remain the province’s primary beer distributor along with its very successful recycling program. That program will continue until at least 2031, the company wrote in a statement.

“With today’s announcement, we look forward to the next stage in The Beer Store’s evolution,” said CEO Roy Benin. “The Beer Store will be transformed, where our role as primary distributor and recycling steward takes centre stage while maintaining a competitive retail footprint.”

About 6,500 people work at The Beer Store across the province.

Multiple former Ford government staffers are now lobbying for brewers, grocery stores and convenience stores. Liberal Leader Bonnie Crombie said the announcement is evidence of the premier giving preference to insiders.

“Grocery store billionaires and multinational corporations are the only winners in this latest back room deal,” she wrote in a statement.

“When will Doug stop spending taxpayer dollars on his corporate friends, and start making life more affordable for Ontarians?”

Ford denied that any lobbying was a factor in his decision to speed up the alcohol expansion.

“I don’t care who’s trying to lobby,” he said. “It’s been going on for decades. They can’t lobby me. I don’t give two hoots about them.”

The Liquor Control Board of Ontario will still be the only place to buy high-alcohol spirits, and it will remain a wholesaler. Retailers will get an interim wholesale discount of 10 per cent from the LCBO basic retail price until 2026.

The Alcohol and Gaming Commission of Ontario will be responsible for licensing retailers, and the government says the expansion will come with stronger penalties for infractions. Retailers whose licences are revoked won’t be able to reapply for two years.

The government is putting an additional $10 million over five years to support social responsibility, but a coalition of public health and advocacy organizations have called on the province to develop a comprehensive alcohol strategy for reducing harms.

The coalition, which includes the Canadian Mental Health Association and the Canadian Cancer Society, has said alcohol-related harms cost Ontario more than $7 billion annually, and the last time access to alcohol was expanded in the province, the number of emergency department visits related to alcohol grew.

The Centre for Addiction and Mental Health in Toronto said it was disappointed with the news of the early rollout.

“There are already more than 6,000 alcohol-attributable deaths a year in Ontario, and the changes announced today will significantly increase this number,” it wrote in a statement.

“The main driver of alcohol-related harm is convenience. Decades of research show that increased ease of access leads to more consumption and, in turn, more harm.”

This report by The Canadian Press was first published May 24, 2024.

https://www.thestar.com/news/ontario...68005dc51.html

[J.OT13]

The $225 million is to break the contract with the beer store, which was ending anyway in early 2026. Forget health care, or transit, or the environment, education, housing, all of those important things. No no, our fiscally responsible Conservative Government is blowing $225 million on making beer slightly more accessible a year and a half earlier than planned.

It’s all beers and SUVs with this guy. The best combination! Make life more affordable for drivers and alcoholics.

Makes our $500 million deal over 10 years look even worse. Forget the disparity with Toronto’s deal. Heck, even booze gets more money, faster than us.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The $225 million is to break the contract with the beer store, which was ending anyway in early 2026. Forget health care, or transit, or the environment, education, housing, all of those important things. No no, our fiscally responsible Conservative Government is blowing $225 million on making beer slightly more accessible a year and a half earlier than planned.

It’s all beers and SUVs with this guy. The best combination! Make life more affordable for drivers and alcoholics.

Makes our $500 million deal over 10 years look even worse. Forget the disparity with Toronto’s deal. Heck, even booze gets more money, faster than us.

This is really insane policy. I guess it's spend $225 Million to get $250k in fundrasiing from convenience store owners. It's just pure madness. We give it away for free. I guess someone told him they can't hold on nobody goes to them anymore because of inflation etc etc. But it's such a stupid decision.

[FrostyMug]

What a monumental waste of taxpayer dollars.

Worse, if anyone believes that the price of beer will go down or the selection will improve or that this will help craft brewers they are drinking way to heavily. 8,000 plus more points of sale, no increase in the overall market size is only added costs/reduced efficiencies and craft brewers are not going to be able to pay for shelf space or positions.

Then there is the entire disconnect of a government that last week announced tougher penalties for impaired driving and this week makes it a priority to increase access. How counter productive can they possibly be?

Someone said $$$ from the convenience store lobby and that is exactly what this is about and nothing more.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by FrostyMug

Then there is the entire disconnect of a government that last week announced tougher penalties for impaired driving and this week makes it a priority to increase access. How counter productive can they possibly be?

There's no disconnect there at all. On the one hand, they're treating adults like adults and making it more convenient for them to buy something that they're legally allowed to; while also holding them to greater accountability if they abuse that freedom and break the law. Makes perfect sense, and I fully support that.

That still doesn't justify wasting $225 million of the public's money to break a contact that was set to expire in 1.5 years anyway, of course; though the Beer Store should never have been granted a near-monopoly over beer sales in the first the place.

[wingman]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

There's no disconnect there at all. On the one hand, they're treating adults like adults and making it more convenient for them to buy something that they're legally allowed to; while also holding them to greater accountability if they abuse that freedom and break the law. Makes perfect sense, and I fully support that.

That still doesn't justify wasting $225 million of the public's money to break a contact that was set to expire in 1.5 years anyway, of course; though the Beer Store should never have been granted a near-monopoly over beer sales in the first the place.

In the article it says "The Beer Store will remain the province’s primary beer distributor". Does that mean the grocery and convenience stores will have to buy from The Beer Store? Or does that refer to licensed establishments? Or perhaps both.

Ford just paid 225 million to check a box on his election promise list. The fact this is only happening in 2024 is laughable considering how most of the rest of the country operates.

[acottawa]

Is the money to break the contract or to keep unprofitable beer stores open and their employees employed?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Is the money to break the contract or to keep unprofitable beer stores open and their employees employed?

Yes.

[Doady]

Ford government is actually spending a lot on transit. Problem is, he is spending a lot on many other things as well.

Transit ridership and high-rise construction in the 905 has skyrocketed the past 10 years. Working class people with every day problems. So why he tries so hard to appeal to the car driver going to their cottage is a mystery.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Yes.

I thought it was a multiple choice question. If it is a contract breaking fee to break a contract a year early then that is a waste of money. If it is to provide transitional support for an industry that has been affected by a change in government policy then that is a fairly standard expense governments make all the time.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Is the money to break the contract or to keep unprofitable beer stores open and their employees employed?

They are a business, I don't think they keep unprofitable locations open now, why would they after this? Doug, for some reason, wants to make sure this happens so he's willing to pay to put in in place early in case he loses the next election and the next government doesn't do it. And that it's entrenched enough that the next government won't walk it back. Complete waste of money.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

They are a business, I don't think they keep unprofitable locations open now, why would they after this? Doug, for some reason, wants to make sure this happens so he's willing to pay to put in in place early in case he loses the next election and the next government doesn't do it. And that it's entrenched enough that the next government won't walk it back. Complete waste of money.

They will presumably have fewer profitable locations if beer can be conveniently bought everywhere else

[Admiral Nelson]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Is the money to break the contract or to keep unprofitable beer stores open and their employees employed?

Either way, seems scandalous when the province could have waited until the agreement was up for renewal in 2025 to avoid shelling out $225M.