Is Ottawa the City that Fun Forgot?

[Acajack]

See this article:
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Ottawa+...300/story.html

Personally, I've heard this a million times about Ottawa and I call BS on the no-fun image.

Especially when it comes from Canadians when you consider that there is a grand total of only two cities in the entire country (Montreal and St. John's) for which ''fun'' would show up in the top five things that spring to mind about them when you name them.

People from Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary and even Toronto* () complaining that Ottawa isn't fun as if their cities' middle name was P-A-R-T-Y? Gimme a break guys.

*Lots of things to do (compared to Ottawa of course), but a let-your-hair-down party city it is not.

[S-Man]

Ottawa never met a regulation, rule, or bylaw it didn't love, and that's a big part of the problem.

I'm not sure if the presence of the NCC is partly to blame, but put all the regulations on individuals and businesses and the total effect is one of dampening potential.

No adults allowed in parks after 11? Even Major's Hill? Silly - tourists get stopped by NCC officers for ID.

Buskers in the Market - a ton of restrictions heaped on them by Jim 'Regulation' Watson, so much so that it's hard for them to operate. And buskers form a big part (or used to) of the tourist-friendly culture in the market - many used to come from as far away as Europe to practice their craft in Ottawa.

Patios? Look out! I don't know why bars and restaurants on well-travelled strips bother with the expense and hassle.

The city's sphincter is a little too tight.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Ottawa never met a regulation, rule, or bylaw it didn't love, and that's a big part of the problem.

I'm not sure if the presence of the NCC is partly to blame, but put all the regulations on individuals and businesses and the total effect is one of dampening potential.

No adults allowed in parks after 11? Even Major's Hill? Silly - tourists get stopped by NCC officers for ID.

Buskers in the Market - a ton of restrictions heaped on them by Jim 'Regulation' Watson, so much so that it's hard for them to operate. And buskers form a big part (or used to) of the tourist-friendly culture in the market - many used to come from as far away as Europe to practice their craft in Ottawa.

Patios? Look out! I don't know why bars and restaurants on well-travelled strips bother with the expense and hassle.

The city's sphincter is a little too tight.

You've summed it up quite well. I've been to numerous "world class cities" that thrive with buskers, street parking and restaurant patios that grow and shrink hourly based on their use.

Ottawa will never be a world class city. And fun left Ottawa quite some time ago.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Patios? Look out! I don't know why bars and restaurants on well-travelled strips bother with the expense and hassle.

The city's sphincter is a little too tight.

Just watch out in the coming weeks when spring arrives, and that first warm Friday afternoon hits, and bars in the Market or Elgin decide to open up their patios before the Anal-Retentive Calendar Minders say they are allowed to.

[EdFromOttawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

See this article:
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Ottawa+...300/story.html

Personally, I've heard this a million times about Ottawa and I call BS on the no-fun image.

Especially when it comes from Canadians when you consider that there is a grand total of only two cities in the entire country (Montreal and St. John's) for which ''fun'' would show up in the top five things that spring to mind about them when you name them.

People from Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary and even Toronto* () complaining that Ottawa isn't fun as if their cities' middle name was P-A-R-T-Y? Gimme a break guys.

*Lots of things to do (compared to Ottawa of course), but a let-your-hair-down party city it is not.

It's actually quite bad in Ottawa. Having travelled around from Toronto/Montreal to London/Berlin in Europe, Ottawa has absolutely nothing on these cities in terms of evening/night life and general 'events'. Look at it this way, it's the only large city I can think of in the world that doesn't have a major concert venue within walking distance of downtown.... (NAC doesn't count; it only seats 2,500). If you can't even host a decent concert downtown outside of 2 weeks in the summer for Bluesfest, that's a problem.

Just generally there's none of that 'buzz' you get elsewhere. When I'm in Toronto I feel confident walking out my door that I will find something to do no matter what. And there is tons of stuff. I'm a sports fan? Blue Jays, Argos, TFC, Maple Leafs, Raptors; every month of the year there's something. I'm a music fan? There are more venues on one block in Toronto than there are in the entirety of Ottawa. Throw in stuff like a lack of quality architecture. Like how many blank grey cubes do we need in our downtown? That's all that ever seems to get built.

It's a numbers game to some degree, but really Ottawa suffers from the highest per-capita 'nimbyism' and just regulation of everything I've ever seen. There's no flexibility for businesses to take risks or do what they can to spruce up the downtown. Look at Spark's street. That could be something..but it's basically nothing.

Don't get me wrong, it's getting a lot better with TD Place and Lansdowne being built into an alternative downtown scene with more to offer, but still...at this rate we'll never catch up with Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto.

[acottawa]

While Ottawa has many fine qualities (access to nature, several interesting attractions, good facilities for a city of its size), what strikes me is how sterile much of the city is. Almost the entire waterfront consists of some combination of freeway, parking lot, lawn and bike trail - contrast with pretty much every city in the world that has lively sections of waterfront with cafes, pubs, restaurants, buskers, street vendors, etc. or actual parks (manicured grass does not a park make). Khartoum has a riverfront that the NCC would be proud of, other than that Ottawa is pretty much an aberration.

While Ottawa doesn't have many public spaces, ones that do exist (confederation square, roof of the NAC, several little plazas downtown, Sparks street) are barren, windswept and completely devoid of anything. Again, contrast that with other cities where plazas are full of activity. One exception is the courtyards in the market (now the NCC pulled that off is beyond me).

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by acottawa

While Ottawa has many fine qualities (access to nature, several interesting attractions, good facilities for a city of its size), what strikes me is how sterile much of the city is. Almost the entire waterfront consists of some combination of freeway, parking lot, lawn and bike trail - contrast with pretty much every city in the world that has lively sections of waterfront with cafes, pubs, restaurants, buskers, street vendors, etc. or actual parks (manicured grass does not a park make). Khartoum has a riverfront that the NCC would be proud of, other than that Ottawa is pretty much an aberration.

While Ottawa doesn't have many public spaces, ones that do exist (confederation square, roof of the NAC, several little plazas downtown, Sparks street) are barren, windswept and completely devoid of anything. Again, contrast that with other cities where plazas are full of activity. One exception is the courtyards in the market (now the NCC pulled that off is beyond me).

Let's get these thoughts to the NCC who are currently consulting on their Capital Lands Plan and their new Parkways policies. http://www.ncc-ccn.gc.ca/urbanlands

[YOWflier]

Neither I nor anyone I hang out with ever has any difficulty having fun in Ottawa...of the good clean variety, or otherwise.

People who complain about such things must either:

a) have very limited/niche interests,
b) be piggy-backing this 'fashionable' criticism because Ottawa isn't like cities 3-5 times its size,
c) be of the type that isn't happy unless they're miserable about something.

Next thread.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Neither I nor anyone I hang out with ever has any difficulty having fun in Ottawa...of the good clean variety, or otherwise.

People who complain about such things must either:

a) have very limited/niche interests,
b) be piggy-backing this 'fashionable' criticism because Ottawa isn't like cities 3-5 times its size,
c) be of the type that isn't happy unless they're miserable about something.

Next thread.

Hey, for once we agree.

The discussion here has focused on totalling up amenities, as opposed to "fun". As I said, there are hardly any cities in Canada that have a reputation for being fun, and this is true even if places like Toronto and Vancouver, and even Calgary and Edmonton (arguable I'd say) have more "total stuff" on the recreational and cultural side than Ottawa does.

As for regulations (also raised here), well the regulations that govern fun stuff are essentially the same from city to city. Even Montreal's parks are "closed" at 11 pm or midnight. Rules on stuff like booze are either federal or provincial and so would be the same in Ottawa and Toronto (and sometimes Montreal) anyway. As for noise even if it's a city responsibility the laws are essentially the same in any given city.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Neither I nor anyone I hang out with ever has any difficulty having fun in Ottawa...of the good clean variety, or otherwise.

People who complain about such things must either:

a) have very limited/niche interests,
b) be piggy-backing this 'fashionable' criticism because Ottawa isn't like cities 3-5 times its size,
c) be of the type that isn't happy unless they're miserable about something.

Next thread.

Yes. Exactly.

[Jim613]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

b) be piggy-backing this 'fashionable' criticism because Ottawa isn't like cities 3-5 times its size,

Ha, I've noticed that sentiment in reading some posts here and on other sites (Reddit for example)

It pretty much goes like this...NYC has it, London has it, Paris has it...why doesn't Ottawa have it?

[ue]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Neither I nor anyone I hang out with ever has any difficulty having fun in Ottawa...of the good clean variety, or otherwise.

People who complain about such things must either:

a) have very limited/niche interests,
b) be piggy-backing this 'fashionable' criticism because Ottawa isn't like cities 3-5 times its size,
c) be of the type that isn't happy unless they're miserable about something.

Next thread.

If I may offer an outsiders opinion...

I agree that it's absurd to compare Ottawa to Toronto or Montreal, or London or Berlin for that matter; these cities are older, bigger, and far more important than Ottawa is currently.

But I think even compared to Edmonton or Calgary, Ottawa is a bit dull. It's got the pretty angles that postcards are made of, but the streets are kind of sterile. Of course Edmonton and Calgary are newer cities and thus don't have the charm of Lowertown or the grandeur of Parliament Hill, but they both have an energy to them that Ottawa seems to lack. They're both popular cities for middle incomer earners too, and are seen as a "great place to raise the kids", but they're still very youthful and dynamic, and I think that helps things.

Maybe I'm a bit biased with the Prairie cities, but if I had to describe Ottawa in one word, it would be contrived.

[JeffB]

I think I read in Sports Illustrated, back when the Senators got into the Stanley Cup Final, a quote that called Ottawa "the place fun settled down and had a family."

I think S-Man hit on something when he talked about rules and regulations. Many people in this city seem to think that simply by following the proper process we will make everything wonderful. And if you don't follow it to the letter then you are failing the city. I can't say for certain, but somehow I don't think other cities necessarily feel that way. Rather than looking at problems or opportunities and thinking "What do we want to do and how can we make it work?" the sense I get is Ottawans start looking for the process first before thinking about the end goal.

[S-Man]

We can still regulate our way to utopia!

I swear in this city, regulations happen for the sake of regulation. Or to fill a regulatory gap that failed to cover something not in need of regulation.

Watson wants to make the city a big deal, which is fine, but he's been behind a lot of new regulations - and is clueless as to how they could impede his own intentions for the city.

I honestly think people like Watson, the NCC, and assorted usual-suspect NIMBYs think anarchy and genocide will break out if people do something spontaneous. The knee-jerk response is to regulate any behaviour into something predictable and SAFE.

I don't know if this is rampant political-correctness, or a bureaucrat mentality, or a "we're-not-them" mindset, or a combination of all three.

Much like removing the buskers and food carts (street meat) from the Market a few years back, the result of this misguided (and seemingly pointless) act was to make the area more STERILE. Can't have people buying $3.50 sausages and throwing money at a professional entertainer who isn't impeding traffic (or something)!

Then we have a city program to cautiously and gradually re-introduce food carts back into the populace, like they're a unicorn or something. I just don't get it.

And don't get me started on $350 fines for smoking in an empty park. In the U.S. they have trash cans and butt cans everywhere, so there are places to put your butt or coffee cup. Not so in Ottawa - you're just supposed to start out not having either.

And that smoking in a park fine, at the time, was more than double the city's fine for speeding through a school zone. Priorities, people!

[gjhall]

I think the people who are really aggressive about Ottawa being boring (especially among those who still live here) are the type of people who want to live in a city where lots of mainstream things happen that they can read about on Monday on a blog.

Meanwhile, people who want to participate in a lot of BIG mainstream events can move to Toronto or Montreal and be well served.

Those who aren't bothered about that but want to do lots of interesting things in Ottawa just go about and do them. There's lots of cool, low-visibility stuff happening all the time, especially in West Centretown/Chinatown/City Center/east side of Hintonburg area.

As Uhunian said, whatever, next thread please, because there's nothing more boring than talking about boredom.

[1overcosc]

Ottawa is a middle class city. Very few people in Ottawa are rich-rich (like 250k+), or poor. Almost everybody is middle to upper middle class. These are the kind of the people who are wealthy enough to be financially comfortable but not wealthy enough to be classy or hedonistic. They're also the kind of people who are more focused on raising the kids, buying more nice stuff for your house, etc. rather than going out to party, and also the kind of people who like to play it safe.

These kind of people are also the type who are generally satisfied with their lives, which is why a lot of the people who live here don't have much issue with the city's boringness. Those who aren't in this demographic will obviously get restless & uncomfortable living in this city. But if you are one of those upper-middle class people I described above, Ottawa is heaven.

[S-Man]

I think there's one in Oklahoma as well! Much smaller.

My apologies! I learn something new every day, I can't imagine what the good folks in Boise, Idaho think of their Oklahoman brethren!

As for 1overcosc's assertion of Ottawa being mainly middle-to-upper middle class, census data reflects this - however, Ottawa is not a single person making $88,000 or so a year.

Ottawa has a large number of working poor that I'm sure are invisible to the other half of the divide.

Ever fill up at a gas station? Been through the checkout at a grocery store lately? Had your car serviced somewhere? The people doing these jobs are not all summer students, nor are they federal government workers looking to re-connect with the common man on their off hours.

Saying there's no poor or working poor in Ottawa is painting a rosy glow over the city that is false, and can be construed as elitist. Did you know the city's social housing registry has a 10,000 person waitlist on top of the tens of thousands of units already occupied? That's on top of the two/three people pooling their money to afford the rent on a $1,200 apartment groups, and driving a '95 Sunfire to work that second job.

Median income is high, but by its very nature there has to be people at the low end of the scale to get it there.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by S-Man

My apologies! I learn something new every day, I can't imagine what the good folks in Boise, Idaho think of their Oklahoman brethren!

As for 1overcosc's assertion of Ottawa being mainly middle-to-upper middle class, census data reflects this - however, Ottawa is not a single person making $88,000 or so a year.

Ottawa has a large number of working poor that I'm sure are invisible to the other half of the divide.

Ever fill up at a gas station? Been through the checkout at a grocery store lately? Had your car serviced somewhere? The people doing these jobs are not all summer students, nor are they federal government workers looking to re-connect with the common man on their off hours.

Saying there's no poor or working poor in Ottawa is painting a rosy glow over the city that is false, and can be construed as elitist. Did you know the city's social housing registry has a 10,000 person waitlist on top of the tens of thousands of units already occupied? That's on top of the two/three people pooling their money to afford the rent on a $1,200 apartment groups, and driving a '95 Sunfire to work that second job.

Median income is high, but by its very nature there has to be people at the low end of the scale to get it there.

Of course Ottawa has low-income people. I never denied that. What I'm saying is that their overall share of the total population is smaller than in other cities.

[CongoJack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Ottawa is a middle class city. Very few people in Ottawa are rich-rich (like 250k+), or poor. Almost everybody is middle to upper middle class. These are the kind of the people who are wealthy enough to be financially comfortable but not wealthy enough to be classy or hedonistic. They're also the kind of people who are more focused on raising the kids, buying more nice stuff for your house, etc. rather than going out to party, and also the kind of people who like to play it safe.

These kind of people are also the type who are generally satisfied with their lives, which is why a lot of the people who live here don't have much issue with the city's boringness. Those who aren't in this demographic will obviously get restless & uncomfortable living in this city. But if you are one of those upper-middle class people I described above, Ottawa is heaven.

Anyone have any statistics on income distribution in Ottawa vs. other Canadian cities?

I generally agree with you, though I think career choice has a lot to do with it as well. Ottawa is largely a government town, and many people are drawn to work for government because of the security and benefits. These people may be more comfortable being "boring".

That being said, I'm a transplanted Montrealer and I like Ottawa. One thing I do find different is the vibe on the street. I could walk around Montreal at most times in many different neighbourhoods and return refreshed and energized. In Ottawa, taking a walk can actually be depressing: the empty streets, the uninspired street-scape and architecture, the people (this may just be me, but I find Ottawans have very poor etiquette in public spaces. I don't think it is purposeful, but most people just seem oblivious to those around them and how to maneuver in crowds or on the bus).

[ue]

^ You just bitched about Ottawa being compared to cities 3-5x the size and then compare Edm/Cgy to NYC? WTF? Double standard much. Compared to Ottawa, Edmonton and Calgary are much more energetic cities. Compared to NY? Of course not, get real.

Yeah, it isn't like Canberra or Brasilia in that it wasn't a wholly master-planned city built from scratch, but Ottawa served little purpose before being crowned the capital. It would not have naturally became a large city (by Canadian standards) had it not been crowned as such. There wasn't anything naturally lucrative about the area Ottawa sits on. It was the hinterlands and that's partly why Ottawa was crowned capital.