The Ultimate Vancouver Rumour Thread!

[jlousa]

The Telus parkade isn't close to the convention centres it's walkable but not close. I know they haven't sold yet, they are asking on the high side of what it's worth, and again no one is interested in building an officetower at current prices. Especially with the Bentall and GM place towers in the works. I see it as mixed use if it happens, although I beleive in that location it should be an office tower.

[androo3]

Originally Posted by jlousa

The Telus parkade isn't close to the convention centres it's walkable but not close. I know they haven't sold yet, they are asking on the high side of what it's worth, and again no one is interested in building an officetower at current prices. Especially with the Bentall and GM place towers in the works. I see it as mixed use if it happens, although I beleive in that location it should be an office tower.

Sorry jlousa that was a typo and i edited it I meant or by the convention centers.

[officedweller]

So if you have a hotel / office tower, which would be on the top?

I always find it interesting that for a hotel / condo, the condos seem to be on the top (I suppose there is a greater immediate return to finance the project than if the condos were down below). To me, that seems to impact the exclusivity of the hotel - being relegated to lower level views.

In the case of a hotel / office project, both would be amortized out WRT financing so I guess it would depend which attaches a higher premium to the view. Worldwide, towers like Jin Mao in Shanghai have the hotel space above office space (other examples?) - plus the higher office ceiling heights give them a boost.

Despite the 4 tallest (future) buildings in Vancouver having hotel components - the highest hotel room in the City is probably still at the Empire Landmark. Even the Hyatt Regency has higher hotel rooms than the newer ones.

[LeftCoaster]

Regarding the Telus site, I have seen some of the innital plans (no renderings, just magnitudes) and many of you will be dissapointed by the size of this project as of right now. The different schemes range inbetween 150000sq ft and 300000sq ft of Above ground building space... so about 30 or so storeys if it is all office, or 40 if residental/hotel...maximum. These numbers are of course wholy conceptual and will assuredly change as this project comes closer to fruition... just how conceptual they are, well we will have to wait and see.

On much more important news I have been hearing some substantiated rumours about a major redevelopment of Sears Pacific Centre by Cadilac fairview. It looks like CF is planning on whetting their feet in this office space crunch afterall, however once again we will need to wait and see if this project moves past the conceptual stage. As it stands right now however if it moves forward it could mean a new tallest office building in the city.

[thefly]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Regarding the Telus site, I have seen some of the innital plans (no renderings, just magnitudes) and many of you will be dissapointed by the size of this project as of right now. The different schemes range inbetween 150000sq ft and 300000sq ft of Above ground building space... so about 30 or so storeys if it is all office, or 40 if residental/hotel...maximum. These numbers are of course wholy conceptual and will assuredly change as this project comes closer to fruition... just how conceptual they are, well we will have to wait and see.

On much more important news I have been hearing some substantiated rumours about a major redevelopment of Sears Pacific Centre by Cadilac fairview. It looks like CF is planning on whetting their feet in this office space crunch afterall, however once again we will need to wait and see if this project moves past the conceptual stage. As it stands right now however if it moves forward it could mean a new tallest office building in the city.

Any idea on what the redevelopment would entail?

[vanman]

On much more important news I have been hearing some substantiated rumours about a major redevelopment of Sears Pacific Centre by Cadilac fairview. It looks like CF is planning on whetting their feet in this office space crunch afterall, however once again we will need to wait and see if this project moves past the conceptual stage. As it stands right now however if it moves forward it could mean a new tallest office building in the city.

So potentially that upside down urinal that is the Sears building could be reworked? That is something to get excited about. I really wonder how that would look. Maybe they would demolish a corner of the building and build the office tower on multiple levels of retail that would meet up flush with the existing building. Whatever happens it will definitely be a complicated project if it ever flys.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by thefly

Any idea on what the redevelopment would entail?

No, nothing at all except that it is going to be a large project, as the budget allows for a sizable development. It is well within the Condo moritorium zone however, so that is why I am assuming it will be an office project, that and CF doesn't really do residental development. I really dont know any more than this, but I will keep everyone up to date when there are any further developments.

[nathan6969]

Is Sears even using the top couple floors of the building, the whole thing could be replaced by a couple stories of retail with an office tower on top.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

On much more important news I have been hearing some substantiated rumours about a major redevelopment of Sears Pacific Centre by Cadilac fairview. It looks like CF is planning on whetting their feet in this office space crunch afterall, however once again we will need to wait and see if this project moves past the conceptual stage. As it stands right now however if it moves forward it could mean a new tallest office building in the city.

That would mean right in the middle of my view from the office in TD Tower!

If CF does do a project it would have to be along Howe Street or mid block along Robson Street as there are two policies they would have to sidestep -

(1) the viewcone from the peak of the Granville Bridge up Granville Street - so no tall tower can be flush to Granville Street. That's one of the reasons that the Future Shop site was not developed with a tower. Here it is (note the relationship to TD Tower):



(2) there is a height restriction on properties facing the Robson Square complex to prevent overshadowing. Given that Paramount/Electric Ave. was built, I think this one could be overcome.

Side note: From what I recall Sears has a sweet lease rate from Eaton's. Eaton's was originally one of the developers involved in Pacific Centre, so they built in a low lease rate that has probably kicked in by now (something like $1 sq ft). Cadillac Fairview would have to make it worthwhile for Sears to do it. The top 2 or 3 floors of Sears are not used for retail (and Sears must be OK with letting it sit idle). But given the large floorplates and windowless space, the existing space could only be used as a call centre or other low level office space - access to the upper floors could easily be added somewhere around the exterior of the building. Adding a tower would require demolishing and excavating to the underground parking garage on the tower site which would not have been designed to support a tower.

[jlousa]

There have been talks for numerous years about buidling a tower where sears is, the last rendering ( 2 years ago) I ever saw was the store being revamped (new glass curtain walls and huge rooftop garden with a tower sprouting out from the middle. I imagine they would dig out the centre in order to do that, not sure how they could keep the store open during all of this, probably why it never happened. It would be easier to isolate a corner and build a tower there while keeping the store open. The problem is the corners can't be built up as it would be either on granville or robson and the height limits would shut it down.

Edit, ^^^ beat me to it.

[officedweller]

I could see the Howe corner being an option.
I agree that the centre of the store would be tough - both for tower access (Sears would have to give up a big chunk of the ground floor) and for store operations during construction (esp. given the location of the store escalators).

[npinguy]

Or maybe it's time to change the laws? This seems like an unnecessary viewcone restriction.

[nathan6969]

Some shadowing on robson would be a significant improvement over that blank white wall that runs the entire block. But this would be a hugely complex project, given that you've got parking and pacfic centre running under the building, u've got TD at one end of the site, and theres the rav line on the other side, not to mention how sears would look with part of the building cut off.

[jlousa]

The issue isn't even the viewcone in this case, there are height limits for both Granville and Robson St and this is due to sunlighting as they want to keep both streets as open and bright as possible. That is probably why the rendering I saw had the building in the centre of the store.

Come to think of it with Sears having at least a couple of floors empty now I imagine it could be possible ( but expensive) to build the building up thru the centre and just have Sears move around as it come up. The lobby for the building will pose challenges but maybe a seperate entrance via Howe St would work along with dedicated elevators that don't stop on the retail floors. Reducing the floorplate on every floor slighty due to the tower might even require Sears to reoccupy the existing empty space once complete.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by jlousa

There have been talks for numerous years about buidling a tower where sears is, the last rendering ( 2 years ago) I ever saw was the store being revamped (new glass curtain walls and huge rooftop garden with a tower sprouting out from the middle. I imagine they would dig out the centre in order to do that, not sure how they could keep the store open during all of this, probably why it never happened. It would be easier to isolate a corner and build a tower there while keeping the store open. The problem is the corners can't be built up as it would be either on granville or robson and the height limits would shut it down.

Edit, ^^^ beat me to it.

Well given the order of magnitude I saw this is much more than a store renovation or revamp, it would certainly include a tower... The tower may be smaller than the figures would represent by a significant portion of the budget going to store renovations, but I do not know if that is the case.

There are of course the issues set our by yourself and OD, as well as a few others including its proximity to the TD tower, and as nathan has been saying the foundational issues. However there is still some fire behind this smoke, we'll just have to wait and see what becomes of it.

[LeftCoaster]

Jlousa do you by any chance know any of the details on the sunlighting limitations for Robson St, becuase I know as you go furter east down the street the buildings seem to get larger and closer to the street itself, it may be that this plot is far enough east that shadowing regulations do not apply.

[officedweller]

There are policies/bylaws regarding heights overlooking/shadowing Robson Square, so even if their isn't a restriction on Robson, there would be on Howe. But as mentioned, shadowing could be overcome - i.e. a squat tower could avoid both view cone and shadowing impacts.

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

There are of course the issues set our by yourself and OD, as well as a few others including its proximity to the TD tower, and as nathan has been saying the foundational issues.

Also the Howe Street service road tunnel (serving Pacific Centre, Robson Square and the Law Courts) if the tower is at the Howe Robson corner.

[Jacques]

Wow, all the information cited above truly captures my attention and looked very interesting,
I agree in my opinion that Sears ought a be demolish and have CF arrange with VAG to use the space for its expansion.
Pardon me but the Sears or defunct Eaton building has to be one of the ugliest design one ever set eyes upon next to vaseline tower on Cardero and Pacific, so anything to re-vamp the area is a blessing,
as for Telus,
well I can hardly wait to see what they come up with the urinal tower truly is not becoming of Vancouverites,
I always wonder why the architects seemed so afraid to venture into original design look at Dubai, the most alluring for me is the
Ritz Carlton, that is design much more eye candy than Shangri-La .
it is a wait an see, it freezes boredom when you see all the latest development going up as being basically tall box slap with glass, Coal Harbour has managed well in being very unique
and also in part the last of north false Creek at the foot of Richard is very impressive.
this City has all the right opportunity to show itself, hope the architects can creates with better vision than in a set principle of BOXES, such as now the south false creek, is just low rise elongated box type, where has imagination, innovation, and dare gone? curves angles triangles so forth so on
I am not an architects, however like many I am a voyeur of good design.

[Jacques]

latest news about Gastown, is that the Heather pub and Salty are relocating into the newly renovated building next to the Irish pub, sometime in the spring or summer, also a bit peeved at the little market located at Carrall and Powell, the business owner Charles and faye who owned the business for over 35 years
sold, left and told no one. what piss me off is that I was truly liking the area for having is little village and friendly atmosphere, we all knew of each others and treated everyone very casually, today I go in the marked and all the priced items have been inflated by 10 to 15%, it would have been nice for the owner to have had the decency of letting his regular clients who supported him locally to say thank you we have sold and now here is the new owner hope all will be well.
Gastown is now turning into a self pompous spoiled child trying to suck every penny out of itself until its has a dry well emptied with little regards to the people that started the community over a decade or so, when no one dare live here, sad

[jlousa]

Okay my photoshop skills were again put to the test. If you laugh at me I'll stop posting my masterpieces.

Anyways I just did some cut and pasting and I stole Scotiatower but you'll get the idea of the old renderings, I threw in a couple of large screens as well. I've even included a top view. I know it's not to scale or even the same building.