An urban Midtown/Downtown

[reet]

Originally Posted by smArTaLlone

I'm sure that many have seen this building in Denver also called Spire, that is virtually the same basic building as Spire Atlanta. Yet the one if Denver seems so much more polished and well.... attractive. My question is why? Do we just care more about the bottom line and less about aesthetics or is it just specific to the developer?

The Denver building is attractive, but overall I disagree with you that it's more attractive. I prefer the look of the Atlanta building mainly because I think the parking deck entrance is more hidden than the Denver one and that gives the ground level a more pedestrian-friendly look.

[echinatl]

Originally Posted by reet

The Denver building is attractive, but overall I disagree with you that it's more attractive. I prefer the look of the Atlanta building mainly because I think the parking deck entrance is more hidden than the Denver one and that gives the ground level a more pedestrian-friendly look.

To me the the Atlanta version looks better.
Atlanta Spire - 2
Denver Spire - 1

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by echinatl

To me the the Atlanta version looks better.
Atlanta Spire - 2
Denver Spire - 1

I agree...the Denver building is okay, but I like the Atlanta one a little better. They are obviously both from the same mold.

We could also throw Tampa's Skypoint into the mix:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/84161724@N00/433921303/

[CONative]

Of the 3, I like Tampa's the best, then Denver, then Atlanta. Denver's Spire is just better looking as a building, but Atlanta's ACTUAL Spire is better than Denver's.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by CONative

Of the 3, I like Tampa's the best, then Denver, then Atlanta. Denver's Spire is just better looking as a building, but Atlanta's ACTUAL Spire is better than Denver's.

Of course you know that everything looks a little better with palm trees.

[shivtim]

360 in Austin and the Viridian in Nashville are the same idea. Novare blue/white/concrete condo towers with a glass spire in front.

[smArTaLlone]

Originally Posted by reet

The Denver building is attractive, but overall I disagree with you that it's more attractive. I prefer the look of the Atlanta building mainly because I think the parking deck entrance is more hidden than the Denver one and that gives the ground level a more pedestrian-friendly look.

You're right. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but the Denver building is in no way less pedestrian friendly than the Midtown version. Maybe I should have just created a poll.

[cybele]

Well they look pretty dang similar. I would personally give a slight edge to Denver because of the way they handled the parking deck and the lack of exposed concrete columns on the ends of the building but it's a close call.

[jurban8]

Stumbled across this Raleigh blog article about downtown. It's an interesting if not depressing essay in how not to design buildings. I'm glad the ppl at the Congress for the New Urbanism are taking so many field trips so they don't have a John Portman taste in their mouths when they leave.

http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2008/02/2...wntown-part-i/
and
http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2008/02/2...ntown-part-ii/ (this one's about Raleigh)

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by jurban8

Stumbled across this Raleigh blog article about downtown. It's an interesting if not depressing essay in how not to design buildings. I'm glad the ppl at the Congress for the New Urbanism are taking so many field trips so they don't have a John Portman taste in their mouths when they leave.

http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2008/02/2...wntown-part-i/
and
http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2008/02/2...ntown-part-ii/ (this one's about Raleigh)

The tricky thing about the article is that it concentrates on a section of downtown buildings that are not/will not be open to the general public. The marts are not designed to invite pedestrians inside, and they seem to follow the mold of mart buildings in other cities. Of course, they never had a chance with Portman.

It seems to me that the article concentrated on showing downtown's worst shortcomings. It isn't indicative of the majority of downtown Atlanta...and some of the information just wasn't factual. I would give it a D+ for effort.

[cybele]

"Downtown Raleigh is experiencing an enormous amount of change. New projects are being proposed by the month, and the amount of investment proposed is staggering."

Well how did they avoid the Big recession or it is just hitting us?

[reet]

Originally Posted by jurban8

Stumbled across this Raleigh blog article about downtown. It's an interesting if not depressing essay in how not to design buildings. I'm glad the ppl at the Congress for the New Urbanism are taking so many field trips so they don't have a John Portman taste in their mouths when they leave.

http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2008/02/2...wntown-part-i/
and
http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2008/02/2...ntown-part-ii/ (this one's about Raleigh)

I enjoyed reading these, though they are certainly picking on the worst elements of the downtown streetscape and ignoring the best. I hope Raleigh does indeed learn lessons from Atlanta's mistakes.

There are several blocks on the east side of Centennial Park that have zero value when it comes to creating a sense of inviting urban space because of the presence of the parking lots, blank walls, services entrances and little else on the street level. It's been like this for years and will continue to be so, I'm sure, for many years to come. The situation serves as a sad reminder of how important it is to plan for the future and to build for people (not cars) when developing large areas of the urban core.

[jurban8]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

The tricky thing about the article is that it concentrates on a section of downtown buildings that are not/will not be open to the general public. The marts are not designed to invite pedestrians inside, and they seem to follow the mold of mart buildings in other cities. Of course, they never had a chance with Portman.

It seems to me that the article concentrated on showing downtown's worst shortcomings. It isn't indicative of the majority of downtown Atlanta...and some of the information just wasn't factual. I would give it a D+ for effort.

I totally agree that they were trying to highlight the worst of downtown. And you're certainly right that not all of the center city is blank wall. But a sizable chunk not taken up by parking lots is very inhospitable to pedestrians. Pretty much all of Courtland Street, a lot of the Georgia State area, much of Piedmont, most of the streets off Peachtree near the Westin, all are crappy places to walk. Of course all sizable cities that had any development post-WWII are going to have pedestrian nightmare zones. But the question is how do you place non-public places like a convention center within an urban zone and still make the place not seem like a dead spot? Or are we content to have these kinds of places just for the economic benefit they bring? The age old question: was Portman's effect on downtown good or bad?

[smArTaLlone]

Central Atlanta Progress (CAP) and the Atlanta Downtown Improvement District (ADID) seek qualified firms or teams with appropriate expertise to conduct a detailed cost-benefit analysis of the fiscal and economic impact resulting from implementation of recommendations outlined in CAP/ADID’s Green Line vision plan, including phased implementation of the Downtown Multimodal Passenger Terminal (MMPT). Proposals are due by 2:00 p.m. on Friday, June 25, 2010.

[shades valley]

Originally Posted by reet

The Denver building is attractive, but overall I disagree with you that it's more attractive. I prefer the look of the Atlanta building mainly because I think the parking deck entrance is more hidden than the Denver one and that gives the ground level a more pedestrian-friendly look.

yes i agree with you...the denver building looks a little unfinished...the atlanta version is more polished to me; for sure!

[Chris Creech]

Originally Posted by atl2phx

prada & a bentley

chanel & a jag

Actually, this seems so old school and even a little borderline offensive, is the only way to "sell" a development still to try to paint it as the next rodeo drive, does everything have to always be for upscale young jet-set white people? This almost feels like a paraody illustrustration it's so over the top. Why can't they just present it with regular people maknig for a lively street and community mix, a couple on bikes, a scooter, maybe just a neighborhood deli or dry cleaners.

[BlindFatSnake]

Originally Posted by Chris Creech

Actually, this seems so old school and even a little borderline offensive, is the only way to "sell" a development still to try to paint it as the next rodeo drive, does everything have to always be for upscale young jet-set white people? This almost feels like a paraody illustrustration it's so over the top. Why can't they just present it with regular people maknig for a lively street and community mix, a couple on bikes, a scooter, maybe just a neighborhood deli or dry cleaners.

Chris, it is about the preception that has to be mass marketed to the people. It's like watching a tv commercial where there are 3 white guys and 1 black guy (never more) downing beer or pizza while watching some sports game via the "idiot box". The perception: there's a cool black guy hanging with some cool white guys... Harmless and acceptable marketing practices (but questionable nonetheless).

Now flip the script: 3 black guys and 1 white guy downing beer or pizza in a commercial advocating some sporting activity- not going to happen. But if it was to happen the perception would be: why is that white guy hanging out with a bunch of black guys? He must be one of them (and not in a positive way)...

True story: While entertaining an employee while having lunch at mid-level restaurant in Buckhead, the employee noticed a group of 4 women entering the restaurant. He wondered (aloud) why there was 1 black woman and 3 white women. I told him about the (unwritten, unspoken) 80/20 rule (think percentages). If a bar, club, restaurant, etc. is 80% white the perception is: It's a white establishment. Anything less becomes suspect (and not in a positive way). We soon realized the "combo of people" was present at 9 different tables, and not once was the reverse (3 black people and 1 white person) visible in this restaurant during the lunch hour.

It is what it is...

Americans are slaves to the mass marketing of stereotypes, and there's not much we can do about it since brainwashing through subliminal stimuli is so rampant and pervasive.

[cybele]

Originally Posted by Chris Creech

Actually, this seems so old school and even a little borderline offensive, is the only way to "sell" a development still to try to paint it as the next rodeo drive, does everything have to always be for upscale young jet-set white people? This almost feels like a paraody illustrustration it's so over the top. Why can't they just present it with regular people maknig for a lively street and community mix, a couple on bikes, a scooter, maybe just a neighborhood deli or dry cleaners.

Well, I would like see them show more older, working class people in clothes that come from walmart or wherever and who have trouble getting around. And they never show a Buick, it's always some Mercedes or sports car.

[AphroHippi]

Originally Posted by Chris Creech
Actually, this seems so old school and even a little borderline offensive, is the only way to "sell" a development still to try to paint it as the next rodeo drive, does everything have to always be for upscale young jet-set white people? This almost feels like a paraody illustrustration it's so over the top. Why can't they just present it with regular people maknig for a lively street and community mix, a couple on bikes, a scooter, maybe just a neighborhood deli or dry cleaners.

I haven't been on here in a while, but couldn't resist this one....
I agree Chris, upscale is cool, and I think development should be more balanced. Just imagine if a Target was on Peachtree, more dry cleaners, barber shops, bodegas or regular mom and pop restaurants. The street scene would be more livelier and diverse.....which might be a little scary for the marketers. I love Evos in Viewpoint, but want me a McDonald's fish filet every once in a while. <br><br>

BFS: you're on the money with your societal analysis. I've felt for years that the whole upscale in the city push, was mostly about keeping property values/ taxes/ dining/ entertainment costs high enough to keep out undesirables. This is not as much racial as it is about class. There are many folks, blacks, whites, Latinos, Asians, that don't have issues with being around civilized and law abiding citizens of other ethnic groups.

[cybele]

Well, here is a article that show the old Davison's is looking good again.

all done