Broadway Corridor Updates

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

why would the limit 1 per block? that seems weird to do. whats so special about that part? the 80ft seems like a fine rule.

[logan5]

I may have misinterpreted the rules. I thought it was only 2 towers per entire city block, with 1 tower per each block face.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

why would the limit 1 per block? that seems weird to do. whats so special about that part? the 80ft seems like a fine rule.

It's a bad rule, added without much deliberation to overcome external objections based on misplaced assumptions that allowing something means it not only can happen but will happen in short order. The assumption is the underpinning of how planning and zoning has worked in Vancouver for a long time and is slowly being dismantled.

IIRC, the province will be requiring official community plans to be reflected in zoning in the near future. This means there will be no mechanism to provide the one site per block control the Broadway Plan envisions.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

It's a bad rule, added without much deliberation to overcome external objections based on misplaced assumptions that allowing something means it not only can happen but will happen in short order. The assumption is the underpinning of how planning and zoning has worked in Vancouver for a long time and is slowly being dismantled.

IIRC, the province will be requiring official community plans to be reflected in zoning in the near future. This means there will be no mechanism to provide the one site per block control the Broadway Plan envisions.

Not necessarily. Tower separation requirements will limit the number of towers per block. That won't change. Cities can still regulate urban design.

Also a lot of these 2 towers per block face regulations apply to areas outside of the 200m radius. The Broadway Plan is in most areas a higher density plan than what the Province is implementing. The Broadway Plan is allowing 20 storey towers in many areas that the province will mandate at least 8 storeys. The City can absolutely limit the number of 20 storey towers in these areas.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by csbvan

Not necessarily. Tower separation requirements will limit the number of towers per block. That won't change. Cities can still regulate urban design.

Also a lot of these 2 towers per block face regulations apply to areas outside of the 200m radius. The Broadway Plan is in most areas a higher density plan than what the Province is implementing. The Broadway Plan is allowing 20 storey towers in many areas that the province will mandate at least 8 storeys. The City can absolutely limit the number of 20 storey towers in these areas.

Different than the simultaneous development restriction. The market will decide whether 2 towers at 20 or 4 (or a near continuous block face) at 8 will pencil better.

It will take awhile for the city, developers, and observers to get used to this free market flexibility.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Different than the simultaneous development restriction. The market will decide whether 2 towers at 20 or 4 (or a near continuous block face) at 8 will pencil better.

It will take awhile for the city, developers, and observers to get used to this free market flexibility.

8-12 storey concrete buildings generally do not pencil well. If these are being sold as condo, parking is almost required for marketability. The numbers won't be great.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Different than the simultaneous development restriction. The market will decide whether 2 towers at 20 or 4 (or a near continuous block face) at 8 will pencil better.

It will take awhile for the city, developers, and observers to get used to this free market flexibility.

For rental, Broadway sites barely pencil at 17-20 storeys. For sites bought recently I can't imagine how that'll work.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

For rental, Broadway sites barely pencil at 17-20 storeys. For sites bought recently I can't imagine how that'll work.

Sites that were bought recently, will get stuck in land economics development hell where they have to either write down the land to enable a project, or hopefully the better land use timelines, lack of a need of so much consultation and a public hearing, and under control and predictable CACs, will enable them to go forward.

The mixed-use low rise and residential low rise designated areas of the broadway plan seem where the largest change will happen. Parcels where land assembly hasn't allowed sites of the size or with attributes (like alleys) the city has required in the broadway plan will benefit the most.

I think it will also be particularly useful to relax view cones, setbacks, stepbacks, and floor plate restrictions, or really any policy mix where multiple policies interact and bring developable FAR below the provincial level.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Sites that were bought recently, will get stuck in land economics development hell where they have to either write down the land to enable a project, or hopefully the better land use timelines, lack of a need of so much consultation and a public hearing, and under control and predictable CACs, will enable them to go forward.

The mixed-use low rise and residential low rise designated areas of the broadway plan seem where the largest change will happen. Parcels where land assembly hasn't allowed sites of the size or with attributes (like alleys) the city has required in the broadway plan will benefit the most.

I think it will also be particularly useful to relax view cones, setbacks, stepbacks, and floor plate restrictions, or really any policy mix where multiple policies interact and bring developable FAR below the provincial level.

I don't think any of the Broadway Plan projects so far have involved the payment of a CAC. And all of them have more density - some of them significantly more - than the Provincial Guidelines would permit without a rezoning, so they'll probably still go through a rezoning (or be significantly smaller than the Broadway Plan allows, which would be an unfortunate and unintended outcome of the Provincial legislation).

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I don't think any of the Broadway Plan projects so far have involved the payment of a CAC.

Goes to show how far they went to undermine projects when only those with exemptions went forward.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Goes to show how far they went to undermine projects when only those with exemptions went forward.

I have no idea what you mean, but all the projects so far are rental, most with a proportion of moderate income units. There's a strong market for rental, and not for condos.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Sites that were bought recently, will get stuck in land economics development hell where they have to either write down the land to enable a project, or hopefully the better land use timelines, lack of a need of so much consultation and a public hearing, and under control and predictable CACs, will enable them to go forward.

The mixed-use low rise and residential low rise designated areas of the broadway plan seem where the largest change will happen. Parcels where land assembly hasn't allowed sites of the size or with attributes (like alleys) the city has required in the broadway plan will benefit the most.

I think it will also be particularly useful to relax view cones, setbacks, stepbacks, and floor plate restrictions, or really any policy mix where multiple policies interact and bring developable FAR below the provincial level.

Ya the Mount Pleasant RT areas (MRTA) are a joke.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Goes to show how far they went to undermine projects when only those with exemptions went forward.

Condo market is in the pooper and with tenant replacement this caused a bit of a stir when the City was making the plan. i think thee City considered transferring the rental to other sites, but I don't do condos in this Plan area I have no idea where that ended up.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I don't think any of the Broadway Plan projects so far have involved the payment of a CAC. And all of them have more density - some of them significantly more - than the Provincial Guidelines would permit without a rezoning, so they'll probably still go through a rezoning (or be significantly smaller than the Broadway Plan allows, which would be an unfortunate and unintended outcome of the Provincial legislation).

Now clarified in the Guidelines yesterday, but the provincial legislation doesn't pre-zone or require the pre-zoning of TOA areas at this time. All it does is neuters height and density limits in a zone that are below provincial mandates. For the time being, you will likely still have to rezone the property, even if you are only going up to the provincial requirements.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Goes to show how far they went to undermine projects when only those with exemptions went forward.

There are a ton of applications submitted under the Plan already, and I know of many many many more in the design stage. If the City tried to undermine the effectiveness of the Plan, they failed.

[Changing City]

Two more Broadway Plan tower rezonings on the City's website in the past couple of days.

2156-2172 W 14th Ave, 18 storeys, 5.8 FSR, 171 secured rental units with 20% of the floor area secured for below market rental units, 84 parking spaces.

And 2175 W 7th Ave, 20 storeys, 6.5 FSR, 182 secured rental units with 20% of the floor area secured for below market rental units, 52 parking spaces.

With 1477 W Broadway and 2538 Birch, that's 11 rezonings so far on the City's website, 2,095 market rental units and 365 below market.

[officedweller]

For a mid-block tower, I think this has too many windows facing next door.

Originally Posted by Changing City

And 2175 W 7th Ave, 20 storeys, 6.5 FSR, 182 secured rental units with 20% of the floor area secured for below market rental units, 52 parking spaces.

[madog222]

1551-1581 W 7th Ave

-125 strata units
-44k sqft replacement space for the French Cultural Centre
-8.0 fsr
-8000sqft tower floorplate


Image from Acton Ostry Architects

[Doodler]

Looks good!
Au revoir Salad des Fruits!

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by madog222

1551-1581 W 7th Ave

-125 strata units
-44k sqft replacement space for the French Cultural Centre
-8.0 fsr
-8000sqft tower floorplate

The first Broadway Plan strata proposal. The plan allows 25 storeys - they're only proposing 21. They're also providing more parking than required, on 5 underground floors.