CHICAGO | General Developments

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

If you're saying B37 as a whole is a giant disaster, then yes. I agree. IMO, not only is it an embarrassment, but it's ugly a shit too.

Out of curiosity, what's the vacancy percentage of B37?

I tried to be optimistic about Block 37 for a long time, but yes all in all I think it was a giant disaster developed by a completely misguided company. The Puma store closing is just the lastest twist, but alas perhaps that has less to do with the project and more to do with Puma itself, as Ardecila pointed out.

I don't know about Block 37, but I do know that it was reported a while back that State St has some of its lowest retail vacancy rates for a long time. Plus, whenever you walk down State St there is plenty of pedestrian activity, sometimes even crowded.

Block 37 should never have been developed as a mall, plain and simple. Storefront retail (with two levels) is what should have been done, with hotels/apts above. In the city that makes no small plans, this was the wrong place to make great plans (and then fail miserably to execute them).

[k1052]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I don't think mismanagement is the reason for Puma's closing, though. The company is scaling back globally with plans to close 90 under-performing stores.

Puma's space is a large two-level space with direct frontage on State, so it shouldn't be too difficult to re-lease.

Meanwhile, CIM is still shopping around their mixed-use tower plan.

Puma's exit was expected for the reason you mention and that's got to be about the easiest space to re-lease.

I don't think CIM should be shopping a tower...they should be building one while the market is hot. Were it me I probably would have just given up entirely on the top two levels of retail and converted those areas into lobby/event space for a hotel user in the tower.

[Chicagoguy]

I agree that they should give up on the top two floors as well. Being located in the Theater District, I would love to see a live theater space as well as a movie theater. Having those attractions on the upper floors would bring customers through the existing two levels of the mall as well as be a bonus for any future hotel development. With many of our theaters demolished over the past 50 years, Block 37 had the perfect opportunity to add to our rejuvenated live theater district.

[ardecila]

A theater is still in the plans as far as I know. A July report indicated CIM was in talks with AMC Cinemas, and XSport Fitness as well for the upper floors. If AMC doesn't work out, I'd love to see an ArcLight there.

It might make sense for CIM to offer spaces to these tenants at basement rates for the first 5 years, since their presence is so vital to the leasing of those upper floors. All that space is just sitting there and burning up money for CIM right now.

[wierdaaron]

Supposedly it's on its way toward having an AMC theater on the top few floors. There were headlines about it in the spring I think.

I think Block37 is screwed due to State Street's shift toward discount retailers rather than upmarket fanciness it wants to cater to. On Michigan it'd probably have no problems filling up, but "let's go shopping on State Street" hasn't been a thing for a long time.

[untitledreality]

Originally Posted by wierdaaron

I think Block37 is screwed due to State Street's shift toward discount retailers rather than upmarket fanciness it wants to cater to. On Michigan it'd probably have no problems filling up, but "let's go shopping on State Street" hasn't been a thing for a long time.

State Street has been improving for quite some time now. It is not the premium shopping district in Chicago, but it caters to a very large consumer base, with products much more accessible to the average Joe. The 0-100 block of South State Street is a perfect example. Target, DSW, American Apparel, Urban Outfitters, Forever 21, Charlotte Russe, and Blick Art Supply all seem to do very well.

Im not sure that B37 would do well on Michigan Ave either. It is an outdated design with a very poorly executed interior. Water Tower Place and North Bridge are both firmly entrenched as the premier urban shopping malls on Michigan Ave, both offer attractive interior spaces, very strong collections of brands, and they occupy opposite ends of the Mag Mile. I can't imagine another such space being able to compete.

The only way to save B37 will be to infuse it with a high traffic use. A movie theatre on the top two floors along with a residential tower and a hotel tower could turn things around very quickly.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

If you're saying B37 as a whole is a giant disaster, then yes. I agree. IMO, not only is it an embarrassment, but it's ugly a shit too.

I agree. Everything about it sucks. The stupid wavy metal siding. NBC or whoever's abandonment of the southwest corner. That one stupid small screen. The way they handled this area. That there's nothing special about the mall design. The mere fact that it's a mall. Ugh. I wouldn't care as much if the location weren't so central and it weren't fronting the plaza. I would love to see the whole thing razed and given over to more typical Loop developments.

[Chi-Sky21]

I actually have always pictured B37 developed more along the lines of a scaled down Cardinal Place in London with hotel, and with a completed mega L station underneath with express service to Ohare. Now THAT would have really made the most sense to me. For some reason when I 1st saw that place i immediately thought of Block 37.

[the urban politician]

I hate that NBC or whatever screen thing facing Daley Plaza with so much intensity that I can't even describe it here. What gets me is that if they couldn't afford a larger screen they could at least cover up the sides with some sort of panels. Seriously, how much would that even cost them? The city should ding them with a violation for exposed wiring

[k1052]

Originally Posted by ardecila

A theater is still in the plans as far as I know. A July report indicated CIM was in talks with AMC Cinemas, and XSport Fitness as well for the upper floors. If AMC doesn't work out, I'd love to see an ArcLight there.

It might make sense for CIM to offer spaces to these tenants at basement rates for the first 5 years, since their presence is so vital to the leasing of those upper floors. All that space is just sitting there and burning up money for CIM right now.

My understanding is that the cinema space is really small and not well suited to operation. It won't be much of a traffic driver when/if it gets built out because of very limited capacity. The AMC rumors have been going on for quite a while but nothing has materialized. I don't think Arclight would ever consider going in there.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by untitledreality

The only way to save B37 will be to infuse it with a high traffic use. A movie theatre on the top two floors along with a residential tower and a hotel tower could turn things around very quickly.

I am kind of skeptical about this approach anymore. Retailers just don't really want to be hidden up inside a multi-story mall out of view of the street. Even Water Tower has some pretty crappy tenants hidden in it's upper levels to eat up space that would otherwise be vacant.

The Landmark theater on top of Century Centre hasn't done anything to slow that mall's decline either.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by k1052

I am kind of skeptical about this approach anymore. Retailers just don't really want to be hidden up inside a multi-story mall out of view of the street. Even Water Tower has some pretty crappy tenants hidden in it's upper levels to eat up space that would otherwise be vacant.

The Landmark theater on top of Century Centre hasn't done anything to slow that mall's decline either.

Not sure I agree. There are plenty of tenants in Water Tower's mall that are far from crappy. Same with North Bridge.

The question we (and CIM, the company that owns B37) need to ask ourselves is, what are we going to do with the built out space?

Do we a) keep going with the mall idea and be aggressive in courting tenants, or b) redevelop the space toward a different format, which would be a costly investment but might ultimately position it into a higher revenue yielding product.

I'm not a publicly traded commercial REIT, so what do I know? But I am beginning to think that any company is going to have to bite the bullet and do b instead of a.

[untitledreality]

Originally Posted by k1052

I am kind of skeptical about this approach anymore. Retailers just don't really want to be hidden up inside a multi-story mall out of view of the street. Even Water Tower has some pretty crappy tenants hidden in it's upper levels to eat up space that would otherwise be vacant.

The Landmark theater on top of Century Centre hasn't done anything to slow that mall's decline either.

I think you misunderstood by proposition.

Reprogram the B37 mall as we know it entirely. Abandon the interior "public" space (build out the space and have it serve as a service core for all of B37), have all retail orient themselves solely to the street, with all entrances directly off the street, with retailers occupying the first two floors only. Land AMC/Loews/Whoever for a theater on the upper two floors. Construct a hotel with adequate conference/banquet spaces, then construct an additional tower, preferably residential to round out the user base.

Century Centre is a lost cause. Terrible retail spaces, terrible street presence, terrible design, and a movie theater that doesn't feature the prominent box office titles (which is not a knock against indie films, just that a typical box office title theater will draw much larger crowds). The complex needs a good structure fire to save it.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Not sure I agree. There are plenty of tenants in Water Tower's mall that are far from crappy. Same with North Bridge.

The question we (and CIM, the company that owns B37) need to ask ourselves is, what are we going to do with the built out space?

Do we a) keep going with the mall idea and be aggressive in courting tenants, or b) redevelop the space toward a different format, which would be a costly investment but might ultimately position it into a higher revenue yielding product.

I'm not a publicly traded commercial REIT, so what do I know? But I am beginning to think that any company is going to have to bite the bullet and do b instead of a.

Yes, but WT and NB are both on North Michigan not on State in the loop. Retailers have a pretty finite appetite for this kind of space even in the very best retail corridor.

If I was CIM I would have swallowed the pill and gone with option B. The street level stuff will always do fine and lease out the remaining 2nd level area not occupied by double height stores at reasonable rates. People looking to lease space are also well aware of this project's black sheep status and that definitely figures into decision making.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by untitledreality

I think you misunderstood by proposition.

Reprogram the B37 mall as we know it entirely. Abandon the interior "public" space (build out the space and have it serve as a service core for all of B37), have all retail orient themselves solely to the street, with all entrances directly off the street, with retailers occupying the first two floors only. Land AMC/Loews/Whoever for a theater on the upper two floors. Construct a hotel with adequate conference/banquet spaces, then construct an additional tower, preferably residential to round out the user base.

Century Centre is a lost cause. Terrible retail spaces, terrible street presence, terrible design, and a movie theater that doesn't feature the prominent box office titles (which is not a knock against indie films, just that a typical box office title theater will draw much larger crowds). The complex needs a good structure fire to save it.

Ceiling height and column spacing would be major issues for expanding the cinema space, as with any conversion of non-purpose built retail. It would be very costly and yield a sub-optimal product. Few (if any) companies would be willing to make such an investment nor would CIM since movie theater rents aren't exactly top of the charts.

The Landmark actually does pretty well. Century Centre is just a more visible victim of the change in retailer's thinking about where they want to be since it was directly adjacent to a bunch of better street level options.

[harryc]

Dec 26


Dec 30

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

I agree. Everything about it sucks. The stupid wavy metal siding. NBC or whoever's abandonment of the southwest corner. That one stupid small screen. The way they handled this area. That there's nothing special about the mall design. The mere fact that it's a mall. Ugh. I wouldn't care as much if the location weren't so central and it weren't fronting the plaza. I would love to see the whole thing razed and given over to more typical Loop developments.

Exactly. I wouldn't give a shit if it werent at State and Washington. But siting between Marshell Fields and Daley Center, IMO, demands a high echelon of design. And it makes it so much worse that it's sitting there, seemingly empty. (I don't know what the occupancy is, but I passed through there after traffic court the other day and it was embarrassingly empty.)

And yes. I've never understood the metal panels. If they were billboards, I could accept that. But they're just pointless and look as if they were an after thought of some kind... or possibly B37 was designed by architecture enthusiasts at Harold Washington around the corner, and it's just one big joke or something.

Incidentally, I really like the Morningstar building. The CBS screen is a bit strange, but I like the building. It's not too big, a good height, and simple. I have no ploblem with it alone.

[Busy Bee]

For participation sake, I posted the last commit in the B37 thread a few weeks ago:

Especially since it's a massive disappointment, lack of vision in steel and glass, who's towers are likely to never materialize, a boring struggling mall, oh and it has a 200 million dollar unused unneeded unfinished subway station in its basement. I'd like to forget block 37 ever happened. Fast forward 20 years and I can actually imagine chatter of replacing it as somewhat realistic.

[Pilton]

Agree. OT. Delete.

[wierdaaron]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

I posted the last commit

Is this a git forum now?