CHICAGO | General Developments

[spyguy]

Centrum is proposing a new midrise building next to the Paulina stop. They've presented various versions of building based off of different zoning, but they all more or less look like this +/- a few floors:


This is the biggest version at 7 floors, 54 units, ground floor retail space, and 8 parking spaces.

[UPChicago]

Originally Posted by urbanpln

3.) Crime and it's connection to Blacks. Need I say more. As a black man I find this offensive but, perception is reality. I don't believe education is a bigger problem than this fact.

There are many other issues that would also get in the way but I can't cover them all. Although the mayor knows immigration is important to the healthy of the city he will not aggressively promote the neighborhoods that would benefit from it the most because, it's a fight that he does not need.

As a black man myself, I have to admit the sad truth is that crime is connected to blacks, especially in Chicago. Our people are the biggest offenders, that's just facts, but unfortunately the facts miss the bigger picture of why there is so much crime and violence in our communities.

[urbanpln]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Good points, but as Ardecila has pointed out some of these barriers can still be broken, as evidenced by the increasing Asian presence in Bronzeville which is a historically black area and which still suffers from crime.

Where Asians have really made increases in Bronzeville is in Prairie Courts and Lake Meadows (Douglas). Most of that is being fueled by IIT. You may have the same in and around Hyde Park but, deep in Bronzeville like Kenwood,Oakland, and Grand Boulevard not so much. As a matter of fact many Black professionals have left since 2000.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

I was just reading about Chinese immigration to the US, and read that in 1983, many areas of Brooklyn were in horrible shape with large amounts of storefront vacancies. But around that time a large amount of Chinese immigration began. A major chunk of that immigration headed for New York, and now New York has not only the largest Chinese population in the nation, but has several "Chinatowns" which have revitalized whole areas in the outer boroughs.

Now I realize Chicago can never see New York's numbers, but even if our city got a proportion of such numbers (East Asians are relatively underrepresented among Chicago's migrants) that could do wonders for many of our declining areas on the south and west sides. I especially think Chicago is well positioned for this because our main Chinatown is already on the south side, so that could be the "starting point" if you will for further inroads into south side neighborhoods.

Our most recent 2 mayors have made trips to China encouraging investment in Chicago, but I kind of wonder if a more concerted effort could be made to actually market the region to migrants? The way I see it, immigration is probably the only thing that will really wake up these desperate areas of the south and west sides, and I think we are pretty much maxed out with how much we will benefit from Mexican/South American immigration.

Anybody have any knowledge or insight about this? If this should be launched into its own thread that's okay by me as well.

It's instructive, I think, that several of the recent additions to Bridgeport Chinese restaurants are Northern Chinese cuisine.

Beijing has a climate very comparable to Chicago's, and places like Harbin and the cities in Inner Mongolia would even find Chicago's climate an improvement. It'd be good to target those areas for moves to Chicago, because people from the Southern provinces might avoid Chicago just due to the climate, but the Northern provinces wouldn't have that objection.

Also, I think a few RomCom Chinese-language movies set in Chicago would help get people here, too. Seriously.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

^^^ Jesus, look how badly segregated the cook county jail up in Little Village is on this map. Our society is truly disgusting at times. We all tend to think that Chicago's neighborhoods tend to be pretty segregated, but look how Englewood gently fades into Marquette Park and then compare that to how sharply and purely black the jail is. And we wonder why African Americans are so systematically impoverished... We put them all in jail so how can we expect them to build stable lives for themselves.

There are some really, really segregated parts of town, mainly on the south side, but there's also some great areas of town as well. Pretty messed up if you ask me, but unfortunately a lot of old northern, industrial US cities are kind of like this in a way.

I made a map here based on 2010 census data by Census Tract. I made an index which is the average percentage for each major racial group away from 20%, which would be 5 groups (Black, White, Asian, Hispanic, and Other) split evenly. On the map, the greener something is, the lower the percentage it is, and hence more mixed. The redder, the more homogeneous it is (higher percentage difference). Green usually means more than 2 groups have a good share of things. Red means only 1 group does, and brown-ish is usually about 2 groups but not much else

https://www.google.com/fusiontables/...l-8QQ#map:id=4

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by urbanpln

Where Asians have really made increases in Bronzeville is in Prairie Courts and Lake Meadows (Douglas). Most of that is being fueled by IIT. You may have the same in and around Hyde Park but, deep in Bronzeville like Kenwood,Oakland, and Grand Boulevard not so much. As a matter of fact many Black professionals have left since 2000.

If you look at the map I made above in Google, you'll see some other stuff too like in Woodlawn just south of Hyde Park/U of C is like 10% Asian. Even New City, like Canaryville, is almost 10% Asian according to the data. Streeterville, River North, Loop, Gold Coast south of Division, West Loop is almost at least 10% asian in every tract and some like Streeterville is over 20% now.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by spyguy

This is the biggest version at 7 floors, 54 units, ground floor retail space, and 8 parking spaces.

Cool. TOD is good and that's a vacant lot currently, right? Design isn't bad

[emathias]

Originally Posted by urbanpln

Where Asians have really made increases in Bronzeville is in Prairie Courts and Lake Meadows (Douglas). Most of that is being fueled by IIT. You may have the same in and around Hyde Park but, deep in Bronzeville like Kenwood,Oakland, and Grand Boulevard not so much. As a matter of fact many Black professionals have left since 2000.

Originally Posted by marothisu

If you look at the map I made above in Google, you'll see some other stuff too like in Woodlawn just south of Hyde Park/U of C is like 10% Asian. Even New City, like Canaryville, is almost 10% Asian according to the data. Streeterville, River North, Loop, Gold Coast south of Division, West Loop is almost at least 10% asian in every tract and some like Streeterville is over 20% now.

My ex, who is Chinese, just bought a renovated rowhouse in Bronzeville (at my recommendation, actually). It's really nicely renovated and only a 10 minute walk from the Green Line and he lives across the street from a police commander, so I'm guessing it's plenty safe. He looked at three houses on the same street, and the other two were owned by white sellers - the one he ended up with was owned by a developer who I think had bought it out of foreclosure. While Bronzeville is still sketchy in parts, the feel on 35th Street is safer than it was ten years ago, in my opinion.

[Jibba]

Originally Posted by spyguy

Centrum is proposing a new midrise building next to the Paulina stop. They've presented various versions of building based off of different zoning, but they all more or less look like this +/- a few floors:


This is the biggest version at 7 floors, 54 units, ground floor retail space, and 8 parking spaces.

The stats on this are great, and the design isn't half-bad, either. It appears as though the architects are trying to diminish the vertical feeling of it to make it more palatable to the neighborhood, but the result still looks decent. There's presence of the virtual-building-within-a-building trick with the dark brick portions, but those sections are proportioned well and simply detailed (and a nod, if inadvertent, to Chicago School)--it worked well enough on 1225 Old Town. My only big gripe is the presence, yet again for a new Chicago multi-unit, of the heavy-feeling imitation stone base. It's a half-assed attempt at "context", and it always makes for unappealing retail space; though, at least in this iteration, the storefronts aren't recessed into some dumb arcade like in other versions of the type which make for really unappealing, low-visibility retail space.

Those are just picky things, though; on the whole, this is a great possibility for the site. Much better than the Clark/Belmont proposal, IMO.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by UPChicago

Maybe I'm off base but what matters in revitalization is the income and education level of the area's new residents. If Asians move in and build up the South and West sides but their income isn't much more than Latinos or African Americans or they aren't creating high paying jobs, whats the real point or benefit? Would courting Asian migrants expand the tax based enough to be beneficial to the City or would it only boost population? I would rather see the City try to court the educated youth of the Midwest than a particular minority group. Plus the South Side east of the Dan Ryan and near the lake will naturally gentrify and develop on its own.

I guess that is where we differ. I would rather see Chicago continue to be, and expand on its role in being, a city of immigrants than merely a city of relocated midwesterners.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

I guess that is where we differ. I would rather see Chicago continue to be, and expand on its role in being, a city of immigrants than merely a city of relocated midwesterners.

Amen, and luckily at least in my world, I've met a lot of people who've moved here from the coasts in the last few years. International is something different - more white collar type of companies need to expand their shit to international students who just got their undergrad degrees. Some do, many don't. NYC and LA kills us on this.

[ardecila]

Paulina TOD is great. I'm glad WLVN's push for TOD paid off. This is another instance, like the East Village Association at Division/Ashland, where enlightened community groups have actually pushed for substantial development as a community gateway element.

Now we are looking at substantial TOD proposals at Belmont, Logan Square, Paulina, Clark/Division, etc. This trend is starting to catch on!

Originally Posted by marothisu

If you look at the map I made above in Google, you'll see some other stuff too like in Woodlawn just south of Hyde Park/U of C is like 10% Asian. Even New City, like Canaryville, is almost 10% Asian according to the data. Streeterville, River North, Loop, Gold Coast south of Division, West Loop is almost at least 10% asian in every tract and some like Streeterville is over 20% now.

Well, the wealthier areas around the core do have sizable Asian populations, but I'm guessing these are mostly second or third-generation, college-educated Asians who grew up in the US, and not the recent immigrants who are willing to take a chance on a struggling neighborhood in exchange for cheap housing.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Well, the wealthier areas around the core do have sizable Asian populations, but I'm guessing these are mostly second or third-generation Asians who grew up in the US, and not the recent immigrants who are willing to take a chance on a struggling neighborhood in exchange for cheap housing.

From "language at home" data, I know there's a few thousand people in this area that speak east asian languages at home instead of English. Not a huge percentage but it's still not really, really small in numbers.

I've met a number of people in my area who are the only in their family in America. I love it. If 2010 was at these percentages, I have no doubts that some areas may be closer to 30% now which is cool. Speaking from experience in my own building, I hear Chinese and Japanese in the elevators a lot.

Also from experience with my ex's friends - any of them foreign and from Asia were first generation and their families wealthy which is why they were in America. Their english was really good and my ex really had no accent. Just every once in awhile she'd use this slang common amongst English speaking people in her country that doesn't exist in the US. People at her workplace legitimately thought she grew up in America and most of her friends were in the same boat because they grew up paying for english classes.

[J_M_Tungsten]

Progress at Wells and Scott today (sorry for fly-by shots. Was the best I could get).

[UPChicago]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

I guess that is where we differ. I would rather see Chicago continue to be, and expand on its role in being, a city of immigrants than merely a city of relocated midwesterners.

I'm certainly not saying I am against that, I'm only saying the city should place its efforts into luring educated professionals, Midwestern or otherwise, not one particular minority group.

[Mr Downtown]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

I see no reason why Asians cannot make their way to Chicago in very large numbers.

Schools. The South Asians who would immigrate are from a class that values education highly. They will make large sacrifices to put their kids into the best school districts, not be pioneers in tired Chicago neighborhoods.

[the urban politician]

^. The people who migrated to dying Brooklyn communities did so because of the schools? I think you are stereotyping Asians. They aren't all geniuses with 4.0 GPA's

[untitledreality]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Paulina TOD is great. I'm glad WLVN's push for TOD paid off. This is another instance, like the East Village Association at Division/Ashland, where enlightened community groups have actually pushed for substantial development as a community gateway element.

I hope that these locations continue to push for additional dense, transit adjacent development instead of going one-and-done. Looking around Paulina, there seem to be 5-6 other sites that could work for similar developments, but I imagine the neighborhood would start to push back pretty strong if additional, similar buildings, were proposed.

Either way, this could be a promising start

[Rizzo]

What a welcome sight to see Wells in Oldtown reach full enclosure of that business district. I can walk from Division to north without looking at parking lots. Just imagine how that immediate area around this construction site will look when Atrium Village gets upgraded and possibly a new brown line station.

I know Cabrini Green area still has a lot to be desired but it's these scarred fringes in Gold Coast and Oldtown that have had me more concerned with a handful of surface lots and some unfortunate 1970's highrises.

[kemachs]

I'm wondering how far Old Town is from Lincoln/Wicker Park-like status.. given that the market in River North is on fire now, and the Gold Coast won't be building up much more because of strong NIMBYism. All of these new apartments on Wells could be a sign of more street/night life to come.

I really like the feel of the neighborhood now, but it's a 24 hr. neighborhood in some ways and sleepy in others. For better or worse, I can see it becoming much more of a destination nabe in the near future, which seems to have a domino effect.