ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[patrick84]

Originally Posted by Pessimistic Observer

does this put the vision of having a "rodeo drive" in buckhead in jepardy
if so was that just a pipe dream of the times or does buckhead need a center piece like that to compliment its current image.

I'd argue it already has two center-pieces just up the road... Lenox and Phipps morphed out of a product of the time and demand just like other major shopping hubs (i.e. Michigan Ave, Rodeo Drive, Madison Ave). Not many people like to admit that the indoor mall concept still works in Atlanta, even in the most urbane neighborhoods.

[plorenc]

Originally Posted by patrick84

I'd argue it already has two center-pieces just up the road... Lenox and Phipps morphed out of a product of the time and demand just like other major shopping hubs (i.e. Michigan Ave, Rodeo Drive, Madison Ave). Not many people like to admit that the indoor mall concept still works in Atlanta, even in the most urbane neighborhoods.

That's the thing though, the Lenox/Phipps area is not very urban. The pedestrian access there is dismal and there isn't really any interconnectivity. I think I am qualified to make this statement, seeing as I grew up literally across the street from Phipps (Longleaf Drive).

Granted, Buckhead is more urban than say, Sandy Springs (It was a relatively easy walk to Borders and Target from my house), but it still has a long way to go. There are too many superblocks, the roads are too wide, and the pedestrian facilities suck.

I think a good first step would be to line Peachtree with mixed use buildings in front of Lenox, such as what they are planning at Cumberland Mall. The next step would be to widen sidewalks, narrow roads (especially the gargantuan Lenox Road) and eventually add on-street parking. A last step would be to break the super blocks currently there into more sizable chunks.

Sure, this is assuming people would have to drive less, but I believe an urban environment cannot exist when the area is catering solely and completely to automobility. Besides, if more dense residential development is continued in the area with proper urban design, I think the automobility will be less of a requirement.

[micropundit]

Cousins Negotiates 80,500 SF in Large Deals

January 20, 2010
Hall Booth Smith & Slover signed an 11-year lease for 54,000 square feet and The Commerce Club signed a 15-year lease for 26,456 square feet at 191 Peachtree St. in Atlanta, GA.

The 50-story building totals 1.21 million square feet and has been a major part of the Atlanta skyline for 20 years. Cousins Properties owns and leases the property.

The Hall Booth Smith & Slover lease includes 25,498 square feet on the 29th floor, 25,533 square feet on the 30th floor and 2,969 square feet on the 31st floor. The firm plans to occupy the property in May. The Commerce Club's lease includes the entire 49th floor and plans to move in March.

[Curious Atlantan]

Very good analysis

Originally Posted by plorenc

That's the thing though, the Lenox/Phipps area is not very urban. The pedestrian access there is dismal and there isn't really any interconnectivity. I think I am qualified to make this statement, seeing as I grew up literally across the street from Phipps (Longleaf Drive).

Granted, Buckhead is more urban than say, Sandy Springs (It was a relatively easy walk to Borders and Target from my house), but it still has a long way to go. There are too many superblocks, the roads are too wide, and the pedestrian facilities suck.

I think a good first step would be to line Peachtree with mixed use buildings in front of Lenox, such as what they are planning at Cumberland Mall. The next step would be to widen sidewalks, narrow roads (especially the gargantuan Lenox Road) and eventually add on-street parking. A last step would be to break the super blocks currently there into more sizable chunks.

Sure, this is assuming people would have to drive less, but I believe an urban environment cannot exist when the area is catering solely and completely to automobility. Besides, if more dense residential development is continued in the area with proper urban design, I think the automobility will be less of a requirement.

[Pessimistic Observer]

Originally Posted by plorenc

That's the thing though, the Lenox/Phipps area is not very urban. The pedestrian access there is dismal and there isn't really any interconnectivity. I think I am qualified to make this statement, seeing as I grew up literally across the street from Phipps (Longleaf Drive).

Granted, Buckhead is more urban than say, Sandy Springs (It was a relatively easy walk to Borders and Target from my house), but it still has a long way to go. There are too many superblocks, the roads are too wide, and the pedestrian facilities suck.

I think a good first step would be to line Peachtree with mixed use buildings in front of Lenox, such as what they are planning at Cumberland Mall. The next step would be to widen sidewalks, narrow roads (especially the gargantuan Lenox Road) and eventually add on-street parking. A last step would be to break the super blocks currently there into more sizable chunks.

Sure, this is assuming people would have to drive less, but I believe an urban environment cannot exist when the area is catering solely and completely to automobility. Besides, if more dense residential development is continued in the area with proper urban design, I think the automobility will be less of a requirement.

point taken but when i think rodeo drive i dont think transit/pedestrian friendly i think luxury clothing and accessories so my question was does buckhead need the streets of buckhead for its current upscale image or does it allready have enough upscale at phipps & lenox

[plorenc]

Originally Posted by Pessimistic Observer

point taken but when i think rodeo drive i dont think transit/pedestrian friendly i think luxury clothing and accessories so my question was does buckhead need the streets of buckhead for its current upscale image or does it allready have enough upscale at phipps & lenox

Very true. Personally, I'd like to see Lenox return to its roots as an open-air mall, with urban elements built in. Sure, that's a long, long ways off, and considering Atlanta's heat, it may never happen. Regardless, I feel like an outdoor shopping area might very well work in Atlanta, given the heat. Imagine strolling down Peachtree in 80+ degree weather, lured into shops due to the enticing air conditioning. Pretty good advertising, if you ask me.

Still, look up the Peachtree Arcade, an urban indoor mall that existed in downtown for a while. Something like that may one day be feasible.

[delarosa]

It seems to me that one of the things that makes Rodeo Drive is the pedestrian aspect. I can't imagine many people take public transit to that retail district, but there is definitely plenty of pedestrian traffic, which brings various benefits to the retailers and shoppers. I suspect a big part of that benefit is that LA'ers spend plenty of time in their cars and they enjoy strolling in a ped friendly area, patronizing boutiques (and the other aspects that give them a differentiation experience vs say a generic big box experience), seeing and being seen all while enjoying the beautiful wether.

I think that the point can be reinforced by the images one typically sees of Rodeo Drive in the media, promotional pieces, etc.

Originally Posted by Pessimistic Observer

point taken but when i think rodeo drive i dont think transit/pedestrian friendly i think luxury clothing and accessories so my question was does buckhead need the streets of buckhead for its current upscale image or does it allready have enough upscale at phipps & lenox

[patrick84]

^^^ Climate also plays a huge part in why these areas flourish as outdoor spaces. Consider that some of MI Ave's greatest shopping spots are nothing more than 6/7 story malls housed within 40 story structures.

The idea of buildings fronting Peachtree instead of vast parking lots would be phenomenal for street life; maybe one day! But I still think the idea of SoB was flawed... you still need a car to get you from your McMansion off West Paces to get to your "walkable," outdoor, upscale shopping mall.

Also..

ur⋅bane:
1. having the polish and suavity regarded as characteristic of sophisticated social life in major cities: an urbane manner.
2. reflecting elegance, sophistication, etc., esp. in expression: He maintained an urbane tone in his letters.

[echinatl]

Originally Posted by micropundit

Cousins Negotiates 80,500 SF in Large Deals

January 20, 2010
Hall Booth Smith & Slover signed an 11-year lease for 54,000 square feet and The Commerce Club signed a 15-year lease for 26,456 square feet at 191 Peachtree St. in Atlanta, GA.

The 50-story building totals 1.21 million square feet and has been a major part of the Atlanta skyline for 20 years. Cousins Properties owns and leases the property.

The Hall Booth Smith & Slover lease includes 25,498 square feet on the 29th floor, 25,533 square feet on the 30th floor and 2,969 square feet on the 31st floor. The firm plans to occupy the property in May. The Commerce Club's lease includes the entire 49th floor and plans to move in March.

One of the nicest buildings in Atlanta IMO.

[gttx]

Originally Posted by micropundit

Cousins Negotiates 80,500 SF in Large Deals

January 20, 2010
Hall Booth Smith & Slover signed an 11-year lease for 54,000 square feet and The Commerce Club signed a 15-year lease for 26,456 square feet at 191 Peachtree St. in Atlanta, GA.

The 50-story building totals 1.21 million square feet and has been a major part of the Atlanta skyline for 20 years. Cousins Properties owns and leases the property.

The Hall Booth Smith & Slover lease includes 25,498 square feet on the 29th floor, 25,533 square feet on the 30th floor and 2,969 square feet on the 31st floor. The firm plans to occupy the property in May. The Commerce Club's lease includes the entire 49th floor and plans to move in March.

This is remarkable given the current economic climate and the amount of space on the market outside of downtown. Consider it a win for Cousins and downtown in general!

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by patrick84

^^^ Climate also plays a huge part in why these areas flourish as outdoor spaces. Consider that some of MI Ave's greatest shopping spots are nothing more than 6/7 story malls housed within 40 story structures.

The idea of buildings fronting Peachtree instead of vast parking lots would be phenomenal for street life; maybe one day! But I still think the idea of SoB was flawed... you still need a car to get you from your McMansion off West Paces to get to your "walkable," outdoor, upscale shopping mall.

Also..

ur⋅bane:
1. having the polish and suavity regarded as characteristic of sophisticated social life in major cities: an urbane manner.
2. reflecting elegance, sophistication, etc., esp. in expression: He maintained an urbane tone in his letters.

McMansion off W. Paces? Have you actually been to Buckhead? It doesn't sound like it...those things are REAL mansions, not fake ones.

Anyway, "McMansion" is so yesterday. It was a cute term for a while, but now it's just played out.

[plorenc]

Originally Posted by patrick84

ur⋅bane:
1. having the polish and suavity regarded as characteristic of sophisticated social life in major cities: an urbane manner.
2. reflecting elegance, sophistication, etc., esp. in expression: He maintained an urbane tone in his letters.

My mistake, I didn't register the 'e.'

It's great to see business returning to Downtown with new tenants in 191. I would prefer Downtown to be foremost a residential/university area (at least around GSU, Fairlie-Poplar and Five Points), but this is great news.

[briantech]

Originally Posted by plorenc

Very true. Personally, I'd like to see Lenox return to its roots as an open-air mall, with urban elements built in. Sure, that's a long, long ways off, and considering Atlanta's heat, it may never happen. Regardless, I feel like an outdoor shopping area might very well work in Atlanta, given the heat. Imagine strolling down Peachtree in 80+ degree weather, lured into shops due to the enticing air conditioning. Pretty good advertising, if you ask me.

Still, look up the Peachtree Arcade, an urban indoor mall that existed in downtown for a while. Something like that may one day be feasible.

What you're describing sounds just like Atlantic Station. I don't recall it being unbearably hot during the summer -- the buildings generally provide shade.

[futuresooner]

Originally Posted by briantech

What you're describing sounds just like Atlantic Station. I don't recall it being unbearably hot during the summer -- the buildings generally provide shade.

Uh, summer of 2007 ring a bell? Ungodly hot no matter where you were.

[briantech]

Originally Posted by futuresooner

Uh, summer of 2007 ring a bell? Ungodly hot no matter where you were.

Why, because it got into the 90's? I don't call that ungodly hot.

110+ degrees in the shade, thats hot. Go to Arizona or something if you want real heat.

[Zanarkand A East]

This would make complete sense, given the other two GSU properties at that intersection (is Toyoko Hotel still planned?). GSU's campus will extend a block further to the north... Look out Peachtree Center, and GO PANTHERS!

GSU may buy Equitable Building

[cybele]

Well I was thinking that GSU master plan they came out with a few years ago did go up to Peachtree Center.

[echinatl]

Solar module maker plans Georgia plant
http://atlanta.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2010/01/25/story1.html?b=1264395600^2763711&page=1

And as Zanarkand noted above GSU may buy Equitable Building
http://atlanta.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2010/01/25/story2.html?b=1264395600^2763951&page=1

[echinatl]

Things are looking really good for GSU. They should just give underground to them.....
http://www.gsu.edu/39754.html

[futuresooner]

Originally Posted by briantech

Why, because it got into the 90's? I don't call that ungodly hot.

110+ degrees in the shade, thats hot. Go to Arizona or something if you want real heat.

It got into the 100s on several days, especially in mid-August.

Also, I've been in Phoenix when it was 115, and over 100 is hot no matter what, dry or humid.

Anyways, back to Buckhead.