The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[Wigs]

Consumer Reports ranking for the most reliable cars of 2023 are in. Here are the winners.
Bailey Schulz
USA TODAY
Published 1:12 p.m. ET Nov. 15, 2022

What is the most reliable vehicle?
This year was a win for Asian automakers, with Japanese or Korean companies making up seven of the top 10 most reliable brands.

Once again, Lexus is a top-scoring brand in Consumer Report’s reliability survey. All Lexus models scored above average for reliability.

Mercedes-Benz was named Consumer Reports’ least reliable brand for the first time after owners reported electronics issues such as screens that went blank.

Pickup trucks continue to rank toward the bottom for reliability, with only seven of the 17 models in this year’s survey having average or better reliability scores.

1. Toyota
2. Lexus
3. BMW
4. Mazda
5. Honda
6. Audi
7. Subaru
8. Acura
9. Kia
10. Lincoln
11. Buick
12. Genesis
13. Hyundai
14. Volvo
15. Nissan
16. Ram
17. Cadillac
18. Ford
19. Tesla
20. Chevrolet
21. GMC
22. Volkswagen
23. Jeep
24. Mercedes-Benz
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...g/10703135002/

I bolded Kia and Stellantis brands

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Nashe

I don't REGULARLY drive more than 500km in a stretch, but I admit, like many Canadians I probably worry more about not being able to do that than I probably should...

People obsess about range and kms and all that. After owning my EV for about 6 months I switched from kms remaining to %. It's exactly the same thing that gas gauges show, your phone battery, etc.

Unless you are really in the hinterlands, chargers are everywhere. Familiarize yourself with them and you'll be fine.

And of course if you charge at home and leave the house every day at 90 or 100%, you have almost nothing to worry about.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by Nashe

My current ICE is 7 years old now (though only has 111,000km on it and is in pretty good shape) and while I was thinking about a small SUV within the next two years.... now I'm considering I might try to stretch the Jetta for a couple of more beyond that and look at the then-version of the ID4 or whatever is on the market at the time.

I know ICE isn't going to disappear overnight, but considering buying a new car right NOW is kinda sucky timing. :/

I don't REGULARLY drive more than 500km in a stretch, but I admit, like many Canadians I probably worry more about not being able to do that than I probably should...

I wonder if this is where PHEVs can fill the void for those not ready to make the jump to full BEV, or those that live in areas without great charging infrastructure. The electric range of PHEVs is adequate for 95% of usage, and in special cases where you actually need range, you can use the ICE part of the engine. It obviously won't be as clean as a zero emissions vehicle, but 5% isn't bad, especially if you're coming from a 100% emissions vehicle.

[theman23]

Big fan of the Korean twins. You may not get the rock soli build quality of a Toyota, but you’ll get a better overall product. Reliability seems to be OK as long as long as you avoid their wet dual clutches, but they’ll probably get those right eventually if they keep making them.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by theman23

Big fan of the Korean twins. You may not get the rock soli build quality of a Toyota, but you’ll get a better overall product. Reliability seems to be OK as long as long as you avoid their wet dual clutches, but they’ll probably get those right eventually if they keep making them.

Yep, same here. If I were to buy a car there's a good chance it would be a Hyundai. Well, unless there was a really enticing niche startup option from the likes of Aptera, Electra Meccanica, etc. But those might be iffy in terms of reliability, why Hyundai is pretty solid and offers better than average warranties.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by homebucket

I wonder if this is where PHEVs can fill the void for those not ready to make the jump to full BEV, or those that live in areas without great charging infrastructure. The electric range of PHEVs is adequate for 95% of usage, and in special cases where you actually need range, you can use the ICE part of the engine. It obviously won't be as clean as a zero emissions vehicle, but 5% isn't bad, especially if you're coming from a 100% emissions vehicle.

I have mixed feelings about them. On one hand they eliminate range anxiety, reduce the demand for battery manufacturing, and allow people to use electric when it's most efficient (in town). But on the other hand some studies show a lot of people don't bother charging them that much so the percentage of gas free driving is actually a lot lower than they're capable of. Plus, their electric-only performance tends to be more modest than with dedicated EVs giving a poor impression of electrified driving. Most full EVs have more powerful acceleration than their ICE counterparts while it's often weaker in the electric mode in PHEVs. As a result, many PHEVs are programmed to activate the gas motor during heavy acceleration to provide extra power.

In some videos I've watched, people have found PHEVs have made some people want to go fully electric. But I wonder if there are other people who have the opposite reaction. That having an actually small electric range and having to rely on gas would reinforce the feeling that ICE tech is necessary to avoid being stranded. Especially since most PHEVs aren't capable of level 3 charging. Dunno...

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by Nashe

My current ICE is 7 years old now (though only has 111,000km on it and is in pretty good shape) and while I was thinking about a small SUV within the next two years.... now I'm considering I might try to stretch the Jetta for a couple of more beyond that and look at the then-version of the ID4 or whatever is on the market at the time.

I know ICE isn't going to disappear overnight, but considering buying a new car right NOW is kinda sucky timing....

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

It's a baby! you have lots of time still. I have a 6-year old Civic with basically the same mileage and I barely even consider it mid-life.. You have a lot of time left, especially since you aren't putting a lot of mileage on it.

Well, if that's the case, given it only has 40 000 km on it so far (second car, COVID, we use the CX-5 for longer trips), I'll still be driving my 2017 Mazda 3 for a long time to come. Which is quite fine, since it has a manual transmission and that option is rapidly dying out.

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that it will be a solid, dependable ride right until the electric Miata is eventually released, at which point it will become clear that driving ICE vehicles is morally wrong and the only solution is an immediate upgrade.

[urbandreamer]

I saw my first 2024 Toyota Prius on the road today: wow what a gorgeous, sleek, sexy sedan. Reminded me of that time I first saw a 1998 Dodge Intrepid on the road: I saw one last weekend in Stratford and after 25 years, it still looks damn good.

TSLA gapped down hard today, but there's still more gaps to fill @ $146; if the sell in May and go away song sings we could be seeing some incredible buying ops below $100.

What will a 2023 Model 3 screen look like in 2031? 2038? (I was looking at my 2015 Asus Zenfone and realized these electric cars will become useless bricks in about the same time. Not very environmentally sustainable.)

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by theman23

Big fan of the Korean twins. You may not get the rock soli build quality of a Toyota, but you’ll get a better overall product. Reliability seems to be OK as long as long as you avoid their wet dual clutches, but they’ll probably get those right eventually if they keep making them.

Biggest problem with the Koreans, it seems, is the extremely aggressive maintenance schedule they make you do for the warranty.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

I want an electric car with no touch screens or digital displays. Something like a c.1993 Honda Civic/Accord or BMW 3 series was perfect. Rotary HVAC volume controls, round speedometer/temp dials, maybe I'd tolerate a digital heads-up display for a driver assistant (that can be turned off.) Just include 2-3 USB-C outlets, preferably on the left/centre/right near the vents. And possibly room to install my own LTE-enabled tablet in the center console. There's no reason for car manufacturers to be in the software UX biz, since most get them wrong.

600km cold weather range, 4 seater hatchback for $15,000.

I'm with you. I won't go electric until there's an option that,

A. doesn't look like some sort of 80s sci-fi movie abortion.
B. offers a pure, analog driving experience. Tactile controls, manual transmission or automatic/manual shift, minimal or no screen, no self-driving or nanny features, no sensors or software, and decent performance specs/fun to drive. The late 90s/early 2000s is my favourite automotive era, and would love to drive something along the lines of a Nissan Skyline, Subaru Impreza WRX, or BMW M3 - just electric. I want to drive a car, not a computer.

As ICE vehicles decline, I wonder if a cottage industry will spring up to convert the engines in classic cars to electric. Or even if more stuff like this will pop up from actual automakers - the unreleased Jaguar E-type electric prototype from a few years back: (still not a fan of the interior configuration though)






https://www.dezeen.com/2017/09/08/ja...ign-transport/

[Djeffery]

Official announcement on Friday for the VW EV battery plant in St Thomas. Of note is that this plant will supply 3 VW assembly plants, one of which (Audi) hasn't been announced as of yet. Given the size of the piece of land St Thomas put together, and also given that the existing 2 VW plants are in the southern US, I wonder if St Thomas (or Ontario) has a shot at landing this Audi plant? There are currently 3 other battery plants announced or being built in Ontario and they are at or near assembly plants in Windsor, Ingersoll and Oakville. Makes sense for VW to consider having one of their 3 EV assembly plants near the battery plant.

https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/...lant-unveiling

[urbandreamer]

After watching https://youtu.be/jX-jPOCCH5o
I've changed my mind about the VW iD 7: not bad. Bring back a rotary HVAC and volume knob and with competitive pricing it could be a Tesla Model 3 competitor.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by theman23

You may not get the rock soli build quality of a Toyota, but you’ll get a better overall product.

I'm a little confused about this statement. Yes, Toyota has much better build quality, but I'm not seeing where Hyundai/Kia are a better product in other aspects. I don't recall Toyotas randomly catching fire like the H/Ks, etc. Plus they tend to be rock solid reliable (if not overly exciting), run forever, etc.

The CR data shows Toyota/Lexus 1 and 2, but Kia/Genesis/Hyundai are 9, 12, and 13. Not that CR is the be all end all, but it's something.

Also noted that Tesla is 19th, FWIW...

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by homebucket

I wonder if this is where PHEVs can fill the void....

Well, there's always this PHEV...

Lamborghini Revuelto launch video

CNN article

[theman23]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I'm a little confused about this statement. Yes, Toyota has much better build quality, but I'm not seeing where Hyundai/Kia are a better product in other aspects. I don't recall Toyotas randomly catching fire like the H/Ks, etc. Plus they tend to be rock solid reliable (if not overly exciting), run forever, etc.

The CR data shows Toyota/Lexus 1 and 2, but Kia/Genesis/Hyundai are 9, 12, and 13. Not that CR is the be all end all, but it's something.

Also noted that Tesla is 19th, FWIW...

It’s subjective, but like I said there’s a bit more to cars than just their durability. I think the Koreans do styling, driving dynamics, interiors, adaptive safety and infotainment systems better. Their best products (Telluride, Ioniq 5, Palisade) are simply far nicer than the Japanese competition.
As far as engines catching fire, that’s probably only because the last story you read about engines catching fire seemed to mention Kia/Hyundai. Just google any manufacturer and “engine fire recall” and you’ll find plenty of examples from other brands.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by theman23

It’s subjective, but like I said there’s a bit more to cars than just their durability. I think the Koreans do styling, driving dynamics, interiors, adaptive safety and infotainment systems better. Their best products (Telluride, Ioniq 5, Palisade) are simply far nicer than the Japanese competition.
As far as engines catching fire, that’s probably only because the last story you read about engines catching fire seemed to mention Kia/Hyundai. Just google any manufacturer and “engine fire recall” and you’ll find plenty of examples from other brands.

I get the subjective aspect. I usually don't equate a "better overall product" to just liking a product better, but that's cool... it's different for all of us.

I just mentioned the H/K engine fire thing because they've had so many recalls for engine fires.

Example:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...k-a1169940635/

There have been more than 60 individual recalls involving Hyundai and Kia vehicle fires. Many of them are either related to problems with specific engines, which the automakers call Theta II, Nu GDI, and Gamma GDI.

Hyundai and Kia say that many of the engine problems have to do with a faulty connecting rod bearing. The connecting rod is a vital component between the engine’s piston and crankshaft, and the bearing is located between the connecting rod and the crankshaft. If one of these bearings fails, the driver might first notice a knocking sound, excessive vibration, or even an engine stall. Severe engine damage could result. In some cases, a connecting rod could puncture the engine block and cause an oil leak that could start a fire.

To fix the problem, Hyundai and Kia installed software on certain vehicles and model years—called a “knock sensor detection system (KSDS) update”—that can sense a failing connecting rod bearing and prevent potential engine damage. If the KSDS picks up on specific engine vibrations that indicate connecting rod bearing problems, the check engine light will illuminate on the instrument panel behind the steering wheel, and the vehicle will be able to be driven only a short distance and at reduced power, enough for the driver to pull off the road and call a tow truck.

I dunno... fixing the problem with sensor software to pick up on faulty connecting rod bearings before they have a catastrophic failure does not scream quality to me. Why not just fix the connecting rod bearing issue so they don't fail in the first place?

But yeah, I get it. All vehicles have problems... there aren't any that are perfect, for sure.

[OldDartmouthMark]

On the body build quality topic, I stumbled upon this report of a 2019 Tesla Model 3 showing this level of rust in 2022:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...canada.269384/

Seems a little severe for a 3 year old car. It appears that they have a paint issue, plus the way that the rust is undercutting the paint it doesn't look like they use galvanized steel in their outer body panels. To me that's a little concerning if you are expecting the vehicle to have a long life in Canada.

[TorontoDrew]

Could just be a lemon. It happens.

[vanatox]

I had my tesla treated since this kind of thing is more frequent than we think (and often not visible) due to our rude winters. There is a guy near Québec city who has developed a specific antirust treatment for teslas. He works only with model 3 and Y. I think this is money very well spent if you want to keep the car long term. He remove car panels and apply the product and "winterize" the car by sealing all potential areas where mud, rocks or water could enter and create rust.

PPF on the front and side of the car, as well as mudflaps are also required to protect the car. Once you have that you car should remain in good conditions. Those are pricey cars so this is a good "investment".

I would never buy a used tesla here which as not been adequately protected.

(And btw this apply to many other brands.. so much rust is not visible to the eyes)

[homebucket]

Following Ford's footsteps and going all in on trucks and SUVs.

GM to end production of electric Chevy Bolt, its first mass-market EV, later this year
PUBLISHED TUE, APR 25 2023 8:57 AM EDT

DETROIT – General Motors plans to end production of its electric Chevrolet Bolt models by the end of this year, CEO Mary Barra told investors Tuesday when discussing the company’s first-quarter earnings.

The Chevy Bolt EV and EUV, a larger version of the car, make up the vast majority of the company’s electric vehicle sales to date. However, the battery cells in the cars are an older design and chemistry than the automaker’s newer electric vehicles such as the GMC Hummer and Cadillac Lyriq, which utilize GM’s Ultium architecture.

Barra said a suburban Detroit plant that has produced Chevy Bolts since 2016 will be retooled in preparation for production of electric Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra trucks scheduled for next year.

There’s irony in the timing of the Bolt getting axed. It comes amid record production and sales of the vehicle for mass-market consumers, which was GM’s initial goal.

The company plans to produce more than 70,000 Bolt models this year, as it targets to sell more than 400,000 EVs from early 2022 through mid-next year in North America.

GM pushed the Bolt out ahead of the Tesla Model 3 in 2016. The two were considered to be the first long-range EVs designed for mainstream drivers, starting at around $35,000.

But Bolt sales never caught on as well as many executives hoped, as EV sales overall remained miniscule outside of Tesla. The Bolt also suffered a major setback more recently, as GM recalled all of the Bolts ever produced due to a supplier-related battery issue that caused several fires.

“When the Chevrolet Bolt EV launched, it was a huge technical achievement and the first affordable EV, which set in motion GM’s all-electric future,” Chevy spokesman Cody Williams said in a statement. “Chevrolet will launch several new EVs later this year based on the Ultium platform in key segments, including the Silverado EV, Blazer EV and Equinox EV. ”

GM expects to launch its upcoming EVs far faster than it has its high-end Hummer models and Cadillac Lyriq, which have been rolling out at a snail’s pace compared to its traditional vehicles.

Barra said when the Orion, Michigan, plant, which currently produces the Bolts, reopens and reaches full production, employment will nearly triple, and the company will have capacity to build 600,000 electric trucks annually.

GM has set a target to reach production capacity of 1 million EVs annually in the U.S. and in China, each, as it attempts to catch up to industry leader Tesla.

The Bolt models, starting under $30,000, are the least expensive new electric vehicles on sale in the U.S. GM’s upcoming Equinox EV is expected to have a similar starting price when it arrives this fall.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/25/gm-b...this-year.html