CHICAGO | General Developments

[wierdaaron]

Originally Posted by marothisu

In other news, it looks as if the land/gas station directly west of The Maxwell project on Canal just south of Roosevelt has been bought by the same developer for $7.5 million. No clue what they'll do here, but considering The Maxwell abandoned plans for 430 apartments? It would be cool if this new site was residential with a few hundred units.

That's north of Roosevelt. I guess the block you're talking about is the one bordered by Clinton, Jefferson, DeKoven, and Grenshaw.

It would be cool if they used that for their aborted apartment tower plans, but if they wanted to go with apartments again why wouldn't they plop them on top of the Maxwell like they always intended? What benefit would putting them across the street have? Other than slowly chipping away at the pedestrian-unfriendliness of that area, a certainly noble cause.

[jc5680]

Originally Posted by marothisu

In other news, it looks as if the land/gas station directly west of The Maxwell project on Canal just south of Roosevelt has been bought by the same developer for $7.5 million. No clue what they'll do here, but considering The Maxwell abandoned plans for 430 apartments? It would be cool if this new site was residential with a few hundred units.

Crains says it is just retail:

Another retail project in the works near Roosevelt Road
By: Alby Gallun December 18, 2013

JRG Capital Partners is starting to court tenants for retail project on this South Loop site.

With one big retail development under construction near the Roosevelt Road shopping strip, Chicago-based investor JRG Capital Partners LLC plans another on a site across the street.

A JRG venture paid $7.5 million earlier this month for the property at 1113 S. Jefferson St., immediately west of the Maxwell, a 230,000-square-foot shopping center being built by a venture including the Bond Cos., a Chicago-based developer, Cook County records show.

Full Article

[kemachs]

Originally Posted by jc5680

Crains says it is just retail:

I know it's expected and status-quo for the area, but this is still so fucking annoying. There's no reason why there shouldn't be an effort to mix residential in with these new projects, and both of these seem like lost opportunities to make the neighborhood a little better. And yeah.. EVENTUALLY this can be torn down and replaced with something else when the market supports it, but first there needs to be trends in that direction. The original Maxwell proposal was a great chance to go there.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Not the same building. He's talking about one on Damen just north of the Blue Line stop, which is the old Skewerz spot and where Stan's Donuts is currently building out its place.

Nonetheless, it's good for the neighborhood on what you posted.

Exactly, the old Marvin Envelope building conversion to the fitness club is a great redevelopment too. The new boom is really starting to work its way out into the neighborhoods.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by jc5680

Crains says it is just retail:

Ah damn you're right. I was hoping for residential. Maybe it can be something mixed use..

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Exactly, the old Marvin Envelope building conversion to the fitness club is a great redevelopment too. The new boom is really starting to work its way out into the neighborhoods.

Wicker Park/Bucktown has some small retail stuff going on like what's been mentioned here already lately like the food stuff (plus rick bayless, Paul Kahan expansion, Cheesie's, etc), the new proposal from last night, the building permit being issued for those 17-3 bedroom condos on North & Hermitage last week, etc.

The area south in UK Village/East Village seems to have a ton of new residential construction going on.


Also, anyone have any info on this? It's a building permit from 10/15 for $1.3 million for 1755 N Damen. This was/is IHSP Hostel's more upscale option in the neighborhood and it's right next to the Bloomingdale Trail. The space in the rear they talk about is a parking lot. I wonder if any work has begun on this.

"INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR ALTERATIONS, NEW 4 STORY ADDITION AT REAR, EXISITNG HOTEL TO BE DECONVERTED TO 10 DWELLING UNITS ON 2ND THRU 4TH FLOOR, RETAIL SPACES ON 1ST FLOOR AND SITE WORK AS PER PLANS."

[k1052]

Originally Posted by kemachs

I know it's expected and status-quo for the area, but this is still so fucking annoying. There's no reason why there shouldn't be an effort to mix residential in with these new projects, and both of these seem like lost opportunities to make the neighborhood a little better. And yeah.. EVENTUALLY this can be torn down and replaced with something else when the market supports it, but first there needs to be trends in that direction. The original Maxwell proposal was a great chance to go there.

The city doesn't want any residential there. I'm pretty much fine with it being just a retail strip since it's sandwiched between the railyard, warehouses (that are being torn down for datacenters), highways and light industrial uses.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by k1052

The city doesn't want any residential there. I'm pretty much fine with it being just a retail strip since it's sandwiched between the railyard, warehouses (that are being torn down for datacenters), highways and light industrial uses.

Personally I think the area is OK. It's not a more independent retail section of town like a River North, Lincoln Park, etc but it's in no way a hellish location to live in I'd think.

First of all, the Red/Orange/Green Line (Roosevelt stop) is probably 3/4 mile away. Probably about a 5-7 minute bus ride or 15 minute walk. It's probably even less of a walk to the Blue line, or if you're lazy you can take a bus a few blocks to get close to it.

Not to mention UIC's campus is like 1-2 blocks away and you could market residential to them too. I'm not a fan of most of the following national chain places, but it's still in no way absolute hell. There is some immediate food around there (i.e. Manny's, White Palace Grill which is 24/7, etc) and even more on Halsted around UIC and also just a little north in Greektown. Then there's the Best Buy/Home Depot building on Roosevelt and across from The Maxwell is a World Market and Whole Foods. It's only about 1/3 a mile from the Roosevelt Collection, which is finally getting tenants (and not all national chains) and the movie theater there is actually good.

I can certainly see the argument for things, but in my opinion it wouldn't be the worst area for apartments. Plus, if you did that, it would probably spur other businesses to open up near there especially if there was an influx of a few hundred more permanent residents to the area quickly. The basic needs stuff is already there. Whole Foods, World Market, and there's also a Dominick's which hopefully becomes either a Mariano's or Jewel. Also a Walgreens on Roosevelt. Electronics types of stuff with Best Buy and Gamestop, food as I already mentioned (there could be more though). The 12 bus runs a little after midnight but it's not terribly far from four train lines either and right near a few interstates. Movie theater not far away and some clothing stores (i.e. H&M, Haberdash, and I believe Akira soon. Also a Marshalls in that Whole Foods complex) at Roosevelt Collection. Then whatever might go into the Maxwell..

Probably a good area for people who've lived in a suburban environment all their lives to transition to city life. If a few more large scale residential projects were put in that area, I have no doubts it would attract more independent/local places to do business again and have a mix.

[kemachs]

Originally Posted by k1052

The city doesn't want any residential there. I'm pretty much fine with it being just a retail strip since it's sandwiched between the railyard, warehouses (that are being torn down for datacenters), highways and light industrial uses.

Well so is/was the South Loop. Would you have preferred that to develop as a retail strip?

Since when does what the city "wants" correlate with how things should be developed from a planning perspective? There's a lot of zoning in this city that is obsolete and, IMO, inappropriate.

[Chi-Sky21]

I can't think of any residential building in that immediate area, you have head over the highway to the west or all the way north of 290, or over to the tracks to east or all the way over the tracks to the south to find any. I wouldn't want to really live there myself. Probably best to fill in the residential further west on Roosevelt past St. Ignatious. Or those open lots between Clark and the River.

[kemachs]

I agree the area is pretty desolate at the moment, but why should we consider it a lost cause? Most people on here had written off North/Clybourn as retail hell...but I'm encouraged by what's been happening up there lately.

I'm just upset that a developer wanted to set this area on the path (a slow path, admittedly) to a livable and walkable neighborhood, and they were basically given the one-finger salute. "This shall forever be a retail wasteland, how dare you propose otherwise."

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21

I can't think of any residential building in that immediate area, you have head over the highway to the west or all the way north of 290, or over to the tracks to east or all the way over the tracks to the south to find any. I wouldn't want to really live there myself. Probably best to fill in the residential further west on Roosevelt past St. Ignatious. Or those open lots between Clark and the River.

There are a few condo buildings a few blocks south of the Clinton Blue Line stop. Last time I was at the Maxwell Street Market I noticed them. Not many but there's one very notable one - I'd have to find it again on Google maps. Also, Halsted is less than 1/4 mile from Jefferson, so it's not as far as you make it sound. Yes you have to cross the interstate, but the UIC campus starts essentially right west of the freeway and it's basically the equivalent of about 1.5-2 city blocks away. Basically the same distance as the House of Blues is from the Grand Red Line stop.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Personally I think the area is OK. It's not a more independent retail section of town like a River North, Lincoln Park, etc but it's in no way a hellish location to live in I'd think.

First of all, the Red/Orange/Green Line (Roosevelt stop) is probably 3/4 mile away. Probably about a 5-7 minute bus ride or 15 minute walk. It's probably even less of a walk to the Blue line, or if you're lazy you can take a bus a few blocks to get close to it.

Not to mention UIC's campus is like 1-2 blocks away and you could market residential to them too. I'm not a fan of most of the following national chain places, but it's still in no way absolute hell. There is some immediate food around there (i.e. Manny's, White Palace Grill which is 24/7, etc) and even more on Halsted around UIC and also just a little north in Greektown. Then there's the Best Buy/Home Depot building on Roosevelt and across from The Maxwell is a World Market and Whole Foods. It's only about 1/3 a mile from the Roosevelt Collection, which is finally getting tenants (and not all national chains) and the movie theater there is actually good.

I can certainly see the argument for things, but in my opinion it wouldn't be the worst area for apartments. Plus, if you did that, it would probably spur other businesses to open up near there especially if there was an influx of a few hundred more permanent residents to the area quickly. The basic needs stuff is already there. Whole Foods, World Market, and there's also a Dominick's which hopefully becomes either a Mariano's or Jewel. Also a Walgreens on Roosevelt. Electronics types of stuff with Best Buy and Gamestop, food as I already mentioned (there could be more though). The 12 bus runs a little after midnight but it's not terribly far from four train lines either and right near a few interstates. Movie theater not far away and some clothing stores (i.e. H&M, Haberdash, and I believe Akira soon. Also a Marshalls in that Whole Foods complex) at Roosevelt Collection. Then whatever might go into the Maxwell..

Probably a good area for people who've lived in a suburban environment all their lives to transition to city life. If a few more large scale residential projects were put in that area, I have no doubts it would attract more independent/local places to do business again and have a mix.

I never said the area was hellish, it is however significantly less desirable considering other nearby options. Large blocks are already claimed by users that are going nowhere for the foreseeable future (ComEd, NT, USPS, Courts, CFD) and the remaining warehouse blocks are slowly converting to storage or data center use. Most of the area north of Grenshaw will not be developed into anything other than what it already is (or close to it) within our lifetimes. South of Roosevelt is already lost to big box retail and strip center with the balance being the UPS facility, the homeless shelter, and rail yard. I have yet to talk to any developer that has a burning desire to build resi down there and you wouldn't have even heard it with the Maxwell if not for the rental boom which appears to be slowing somewhat.

[Chi-Sky21]

No its not far to go over the highway, but my feeling is when you have those boundaries pretty much set by man made obstacles without having any residential in there already, why change? Industrial buildings and warehouses to the north and south , a cluster of shopping with horrible traffic on Roosevelt. Who would want to live there anyways! I used to live a few blocks west of there off Roosevelt, and i would rather just stay were it is more residential.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by kemachs

Well so is/was the South Loop. Would you have preferred that to develop as a retail strip?

Since when does what the city "wants" correlate with how things should be developed from a planning perspective? There's a lot of zoning in this city that is obsolete and, IMO, inappropriate.

I see no good planning case for residential in this corridor. Far from rail transit, cut off from most of the E-W-S street grid, isolated by natural and man made barriers on all sides, and full of users who have no incentive or interest in moving.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by k1052

I never said the area was hellish, it is however significantly less desirable considering other nearby options. Large blocks are already claimed by users that are going nowhere for the foreseeable future (ComEd, NT, USPS, Courts, CFD) and the remaining warehouse blocks are slowly converting to storage or data center use. Most of the area north of Grenshaw will not be developed into anything other than what it already is (or close to it) within our lifetimes. South of Roosevelt is already lost to big box retail and strip center with the balance being the UPS facility, the homeless shelter, and rail yard. I have yet to talk to any developer that has a burning desire to build resi down there and you wouldn't have even heard it with the Maxwell if not for the rental boom which appears to be slowing somewhat.

Sure, I completely agree it's less desirable than some other areas. However, it doesn't have to be like that. Nothing says that we have to keep putting a bunch of national chain retailers in there when new development happens and nothing else.

My point is that there is already the basic livable needs types of places that are there in the form of groceries, home goods, some clothing, convenience, electronics, and some restaurants. It's not far from a few major public transit points. If you did put some residential in there, and I think it would have to start small, people could still survive comfortably on a needs level just by walking around or taking public transit. If that was successful and more residential came, I have no doubts that it would spur other more locally based businesses to do stuff in that area.

While it's semi desolate, it's still very close to a major interstate, UIC, and the South Loop, which is easy enough to get to areas like the Loop, River North, West Loop, etc. Also close to the Orange and Blue lines for access to the airports. There's more than enough places to get basic amenities in that area and you have a number of choices too. While there's not tons of food places in the immediate area, there are some and some not too far away either especially if you head west, and north and west just a little bit.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by k1052

I see no good planning case for residential in this corridor. Far from rail transit, cut off from most of the E-W-S street grid, isolated by natural and man made barriers on all sides, and full of users who have no incentive or interest in moving.

I semi disagree about this point. Now, closer to Roosevelt is not RIGHT on the rail, but it's not much further than many other places. Let's do some math here.

Here are some distances for you, according to Google Maps:

* Roosevelt and Clinton to Clinton-Blue Line = 0.6 miles
* Roosevelt and Clinton to Roosevelt Red/Orange/Green = 0.7 miles

Now let's look at a few other areas:
* Grand & McClurg to Grand Red Line = 0.5 miles
* Addison & Lakeshore Drive to Addison Red = 0.5 miles


Of course, this isn't taking into account other streets that aren't a direct shot away. You could live on Lake Shore Dr & Cornelia and the distance to the red line would be the same as it is from Roosevelt/Clinton to the Red/Orange/Green Line stop (0.7 miles). If you lived in Erie or Ontario instead of Grand, it would basically be the same story with increasing distance being the same as this area we're talking about.

It's not like we're talking about Dunning, Montclare, Belmont Cragin, Beverly, Ashburn, etc here.

Also cut off from most of the EWS street grid? Last time I checked, it's on Roosevelt which easily leads to all the "downtown" main streets like State, Michigan, LaSalle, etc, it's right near Halsted, Ashland is not far away, all the N-S streets in that area (Jefferson, Desplaines, Clinton, and Canal) continue into the West Loop, and Canal goes south to streets like 16th, 18th, and Cermak/Archer. Not to mention that it's right near 90/94 and not terribly far from I-55.


Not saying it's uber desirable but the location is not terrible and contrary to popular belief, it's closer to trains than you give it credit for.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by marothisu

I semi disagree about this point. Now, closer to Roosevelt is not RIGHT on the rail, but it's not much further than many other places. Let's do some math here.

Here are some distances for you, according to Google Maps:

* Roosevelt and Clinton to Clinton-Blue Line = 0.6 miles
* Roosevelt and Clinton to Roosevelt Red/Orange/Green = 0.7 miles

Now let's look at a few other areas:
* Grand & McClurg to Grand Red Line = 0.5 miles
* Addison & Lakeshore Drive to Addison Red = 0.5 miles


Of course, this isn't taking into account other streets that aren't a direct shot away. You could live on Lake Shore Dr & Cornelia and the distance to the red line would be the same as it is from Roosevelt/Clinton to the Red/Orange/Green Line stop (0.7 miles). If you lived in Erie or Ontario instead of Grand, it would basically be the same story with increasing distance being the same as this area we're talking about.

It's not like we're talking about Dunning, Montclare, Belmont Cragin, Beverly, Ashburn, etc here.

If there was an established neighborhood to work from distance would matter less...but there isn't so it matters more. Also I invite anyone interested to make all those walks (preferably at night) then report back about where they would prefer to rent. Even the people renting in the lofts at RC complain a lot about just walking over the long (and very exposed) viaduct/bridge to the retail on the other side of the river.

Of all the planning battles to pick this one is super marginal.

[Chi-Sky21]

1 interesting idea for the northern part of this area would be eventually (long time out) building of some taller office buildings here. Out of all the locations in the immediate vicinity of the loop, this area would be relatively easy to build on. No NYMBYS to worry about, and large open lots. Of course there are still a ton of lots open for this in the loop still but just a thought. Especially when/if (BIG IF) the old post office gets developed.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by k1052

If there was an established neighborhood to work from distance would matter less...but there isn't so it matters more. Also I invite anyone interested to make all those walks (preferably at night) then report back about where they would prefer to rent. Even the people renting in the lofts at RC complain a lot about just walking over the long (and very exposed) viaduct/bridge to the retail on the other side of the river.

Of all the planning battles to pick this one is super marginal.

You're completely missing my point. Let's try it again: there's enough there to support residential living even without the use of a car in the immediate area. This is not an area that has no groceries, no home goods types of stores, convenience, etc. It has all of that shit there already. If you added a residential component to it, it would work. Now, it might not be the most exciting area, but the more people that live around there, the more business you would attract as long as you weren't an idiot with how much you charge businesses for rent.

Also you were talking about straight up distances. I know what your point is but in the end, you said "far" and it's no further to a train stop than parts of Streeterville are to their stops. I don't really care whether there's a neighborhood or not to walk through because that can be developed. We're just talking about distance here and straight up distance wise, if you call that far then you better call the distance from Navy Pier to Grand Red Line far too.