PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[mcgrath618]

What sucks is that the Roxborough project comes close to not sucking. It uses traditional materials, even if they're veneers. Imagine if the windows were traditional 6 over 6es, lined up with one another, and the AC vents were either well hidden or not present. The project would be acceptable at worst.

It's this lazy half-assed thoughtfulness that gets me. Like, clearly the client asked for traditional materials and somewhat traditional massing, but the firm is so used to designing the way they design that contemporary design seeps through like a mold taking over a slice of bread.

[PHLtoNYC]

^ Lose the stone on the corner and keep it simple with brick.
The windows also look cheap, like Motel 6 cheap. Higher quality windows with panes and all brick facing the street would make this a solid project.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

What sucks is that the Roxborough project comes close to not sucking. It uses traditional materials [...]

Err. Other than the fact that you like "traditional materials," what about this design is not terrible?

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Justin7

Err. Other than the fact that you like "traditional materials," what about this design is not terrible?

The general idea of the massing. With the exception of the weird stone section on the far left, the general massing of this project doesn't upset me greatly. Change the mansard widows to be consistent and do the other recommendations I gave and it wouldn't be a bad looking building.

Traditional materials get you at least some street cred, no? I think we can all unilaterally agree that we'd rather take the Roxborough project over this:

[PhilliesPhan]

If you all want to get a first-hand glimpse into just how quickly Philadelphia is changing, then I'd recommend visiting the corner of Kensington and Ontario.

My work day is unusually light, so I decided to hop on the El, take it to Tioga, and try out Caphe Roasters. I've heard a lot about this place, but it's hard to get to Kensington/Harrowgate from the Northwest by transit. Caphe is in a former furniture store that was transformed by Shift Capital a few years ago. The cafe looks beautiful, was nicely lit, had comfortable seating, and the food was amazing. The owners are also really nice! As I sat in my comfy chair and looked up at the El, I noticed a street sweeper coming down J Street. There were also a ton of people who look just like me--young professionals--typing away on their laptops just as they would do in the more upscale neighborhoods. Once I finished my delicious J Street Sammo and coffee, I decided to get back on the El at Allegheny. The walk between Ontario Street and Allegheny Avenue seemed to be much cleaner than usual. Some other things I noticed while in Kensington:

• A wood-framed structure rising on or behind Allegheny Avenue. I couldn't tell if it was a new construction building or an addition to an existing building
• Several ongoing renovations to rowhomes along Kensington Avenue, along with a few completed ones
• Shift Capital signage abound. They are really making a strong investment in the neighborhood
• A ground-up new construction building on D Street, just north of Kensington and Somerset

Kensington still has a VERY long way to go, and I would still hesitate to bring someone who isn't comfortable with what they may see there (I saw all of the usual shenanigans while walking back to the El), but the fact that a full-service coffee shop as nice as Caphe Roasters is sitting on the corner of Kensington and Ontario says a lot about where the neighborhood may head in the coming years. IMO, there would be a ton of interest in Kensington if the city cleaned up McPherson Square and Kensington Avenue between the Conrail tracks and Allegeheny (Allegheny to Frankford isn't nearly as bad). For now, I think that Kensington is starting to attract members of the creative class.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

This is unacceptably fugly. Roxborough is my neighborhood and, while I love to see Ridge Avenue densify as the area is increasingly "discovered", I've been disappointed with many of the projects in/that have come out of the development pipeline. Just when I thought the new building to the north of Ridge and Parker would take the crown as the fugliest building in the neighborhood, this comes along. This shit looks like it belongs in Royersford, not Roxborough. The worst thing about this project is that it will rise along the commercial heart of Roxborough (between Lyceum and Leverington). Also, why does every new apartment building along Ridge have to have those ugly ass exterior A/C vents? IMO, those are even uglier than external power meters.

It seems like developers in all other Northwestern neighborhoods are building structures of a much higher quality than those rising in Roxborough. East Falls, Chestnut Hill (of course), Mount Airy, and even Germantown and Manayunk have better planned and under construction projects than Roxborough.

I don't know....I mean, I agree it's ugly. On the other hand, Roxborough isn't high rent and those structures this project is replacing aren't exactly national treasures either. This isn't Center City or even Fairmount or Manayunk. My biggiest gripe is the retail component: 1) What zoning overlay required the developer to reduce the retail space in the heart of the Ridge Ave shopping corridor? and 2) Will local mom n pop businesses afford to lease space in the new building or will the developer be strictly targeting national chains?

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by McBane

I don't know....I mean, I agree it's ugly. On the other hand, Roxborough isn't high rent and those structures this project is replacing aren't exactly national treasures either. This isn't Center City or even Fairmount or Manayunk. My biggiest gripe is the retail component: 1) What zoning overlay required the developer to reduce the retail space in the heart of the Ridge Ave shopping corridor? and 2) Will local mom n pop businesses afford to lease space in the new building or will the developer be strictly targeting national chains?

I think statistically Roxborough is wealthier than Manayunk. And tbh, I think it has always been that way. The houses are bigger and more accommodating to families. Further, much of what people think of as Manayunk is actually Roxborough (as you go up the hill on Leverington or Green from Manayunk, the dividing line is Silverwood Street. That's just a few blocks from Main Street).

Further, prices of new construction in Roxborough are nearly out of this world. New homes in Upper Roxborough and leafy neighborhoods like Dearnly Park are approaching a million dollars. Even more, many of the biggest and fanciest news home in Manayunk are actually in Roxborough (i.e. NE of Silverwood Street).

Nonetheless, I digress. Roxborough has always been nicer than it gets credit for being. Just as historically, Fishtown was actually the poorest part of Kensington (believe it or not), Manayunk was a poor milltown in the valley below wealthier Roxborough. I'd argue it still is today. Manayunk just has better PR.

[McBane]

I lived in Roxborough for a long, long time. And your post is pretty spot on. But Ridge Ave commercial rents don't compare to Main Street or shopping corridors in Center City or other trendy areas. You can see it in the types of stores and their general condition of the buildings that line the street. While real estate prices have exploded in Roxborough (and pretty much everywhere else), Ridge has maintained its feel as a neighborhood commercial corridor - no destination restaurants (except maybe White Yak, the only Tibetan restaurant in the region), boutique shops, dog bakeries, or hipster bars here. (And FWIW, I always appreciated Ridge Ave's more practical shopping options).

All I am saying is that it's probably not worth the investment to go high end here.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I think statistically Roxborough is wealthier than Manayunk. And tbh, I think it has always been that way. The houses are bigger and more accommodating to families. Further, much of what people think of as Manayunk is actually Roxborough (as you go up the hill on Leverington or Green from Manayunk, the dividing line is Silverwood Street. That's just a few blocks from Main Street).

Further, prices of new construction in Roxborough are nearly out of this world. New homes in Upper Roxborough and leafy neighborhoods like Dearnly Park are approaching a million dollars. Even more, many of the biggest and fanciest news home in Manayunk are actually in Roxborough (i.e. NE of Silverwood Street).

Nonetheless, I digress. Roxborough has always been nicer than it gets credit for being. Just as historically, Fishtown was actually the poorest part of Kensington (believe it or not), Manayunk was a poor milltown in the valley below wealthier Roxborough. I'd argue it still is today. Manayunk just has better PR.

As a cradle Philadelphian, I agree with your assessment. Fishtown was considered the pits in the 70-80s. The dream was to move up to Juniata.

Roxborough was always considered moderately posh by Philadelphia standards but somewhere along the way, it lost the luster of that rep a bit.

[iheartphilly]

^
I lived in Roxborough when I was a student. I also remembered it being very much a blue collar town. Good time when I was a student back then. Maybe the character will change but who knows, it really depends on a lot of things that draw people to want to live there or anywhere for that matter.

[William Van Alen]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

Kensington still has a VERY long way to go, and I would still hesitate to bring someone who isn't comfortable with what they may see there (I saw all of the usual shenanigans while walking back to the El), but the fact that a full-service coffee shop as nice as Caphe Roasters is sitting on the corner of Kensington and Ontario says a lot about where the neighborhood may head in the coming years. IMO, there would be a ton of interest in Kensington if the city cleaned up McPherson Square and Kensington Avenue between the Conrail tracks and Allegeheny (Allegheny to Frankford isn't nearly as bad). For now, I think that Kensington is starting to attract members of the creative class.

I just recently moved to Port Richmond and am optimistic about the areas north of the freight tracks in general. Port Richmond has a seemingly better chance of improving (not that it was ever as bad as Kensington), not least due to the nice and well-maintained housing stock. Anybody seeking more value out of their living space but wanting to be close to everything will be looking in Port Richmond/Kensington in the coming years IMO. I know that's why I chose to set up shop there - big place for a good price in a safe hood. Can't find that in many parts of the "core" anymore.

There's so much untapped potential in Kensington. Always felt like it could be one of the best neighborhoods in the city if things were to ever clean up there.

[Gatorade_Jim]

Originally Posted by PHL10

As a cradle Philadelphian, I agree with your assessment. Fishtown was considered the pits in the 70-80s. The dream was to move up to Juniata.

Roxborough was always considered moderately posh by Philadelphia standards but somewhere along the way, it lost the luster of that rep a bit.

Oh boy how those tables have turned. I always love hearing first hand perspectives from the past to compare to current events. Helps to put things into context.

[Scottydont]

I guess I'm in the minority... I think the Roxborough project is fine and is better than what's there. The 3rd floor apartments with their roof/windows is classier than most apartments.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Scottydont

I guess I'm in the minority... I think the Roxborough project is fine and is better than what's there. The 3rd floor apartments with their roof/windows is classier than most apartments.

I'm with you. Judging by the aerial photo and what appear to be another apartment complex in the foreground, it's fine for the area and it's not really bad at all. Also, there's limitations to how much to invest in a project and what rent can be fetch in the area to recoup the investment.

[Busy Bee]

Those corny peaks remind me of the worst Fedders two-family cheese they build in Queens and Long Island. All it needs out front is one of those half wagon wheel front doors and a bunch of ghastly wrought iron painted white.

[PurpleWhiteOut]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Also, there's limitations to how much to invest in a project and what rent can be fetch in the area to recoup the investment.

It doesn't have to be expensive to look site appropriate, and they're already using brick. The way this is designed and massed looks like a suburban faux-town center like something you'd find out in KoP. It's just cheesy and dated looking.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut

It doesn't have to be expensive to look site appropriate, and they're already using brick. The way this is designed and massed looks like a suburban faux-town center like something you'd find out in KoP. It's just cheesy and dated looking.

Well, the area looks cheesy and dated so it fits right in. Brick facing the main street is good and that's consistent with other brick buildings on the street but it's not brick the entire building being cost prohibitive. And the top of the building has the pitch roof where the windows are and that seems in line with other bldgs with their pitch roof in the neighborhood.

[Aaamazarite]

Originally Posted by McBane

Re the Roxborough project, can someone explain this to me?



Seems bizarre that zoning regs would limit commercial space in the heart of Roxborough's Ridge Ave commercial district.

Overall, it's not that bad of a project, minus the displacement of local businesses. I hope local businesses can still afford spaces in the new building. Oftentimes, the retail spaces in these types of projects end up getting filled by national chains.

The intentionally restrictive zoning overlay on Ridge Ave has been tightened even further to limit commercial spaces to 8,000sf and also added to the list of uses that need a special exception or variance-- including things like medical offices... it's just another attempt to prevent development in the area by the two main RCO's there, who are trying to stop all development. I live there now and one of them emailed out a fundraiser to pay for lawyers so they can fight by-right projects in court.

That said, the developer building the ugliest stuff in Roxborough (MGMT Residential) isn't doing pro-development people any favors by continuing to put up awful buildings with exterior HVAC units.

[PHLtoNYC]

Do city workers regularly tend to weeds along the Schuylkill trail, major roadways, sidewalks in Center City, etc.? Or is a different entity responsible? Like how Independence Mall maintenance is not under the city?

This seems like such a stupid mistake, and the lot clearly didn't look overgrown, yet so many other lots and sidewalks are actually are overgrown.

City Workers Cut Down Philly Brewery's Hop Crop After Mistaking it for Weeds

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...royed/3363235/

[Justin7]

Every time I have an urge to discuss architecture on this site I need to just punch myself in the face instead. Yes, if they fixed the mess of a roof line and changed all of the windows' types and sizes and ditched the absurd stone on the corner and removed the incoherent arch and added any kind of border between the lower stone and brick and better hid or removed or aligned the vents the design of this four story box would be fine.

*punch*