CHICAGO | General Developments

[Busy Bee]

Some stores invest:
Selfridges, Birmingham, England


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Birmingham.jpg

[J_M_Tungsten]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

This block, you guys. This block.

It is pretty impressive. I don't head up that way much anymore, but it always makes me stop and enjoy the progress over the years.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

Was there ever an expectation for anything better? We all knew from the renderings that it was going to be lipstick on a pig. I commend the owners for at least acknowledging that this kind of architecture is problematic (and bad for business), but they're going to have to invest a whole lot more to get this corner up to snuff.

You're right. The way they plastered their interior with ads was tacky. They could have plastered the exterior with ads but the city wouldn't allow it. So anyway as for acknowledging some semblance of architecture.....

[k1052]

Having been to a lot of Macerich properties my expectations were low for the new signage but this is pretty hideous.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by k1052

Having been to a lot of Macerich properties my expectations were low for the new signage but this is pretty hideous.

Well ugly and functional is one thing, but this isn't even functional which is what puzzles me. Surely Macerich wouldn't want to spend all that money on a renovation with signs that are nearly illegible. As someone pointed out earlier, the colors chosen are such that the font bleeds into the background and you can hardly read the damn thing.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Well ugly and functional is one thing, but this isn't even functional which is what puzzles me. Surely Macerich wouldn't want to spend all that money on a renovation with signs that are nearly illegible. As someone pointed out earlier, the colors chosen are such that the font bleeds into the background and you can hardly read the damn thing.

Having seen all sorts of dumb stuff done that obviously cost a lot of money I'm not going to draw too many conclusions about what choices led up to this particular abortion. When I think "well thought out design" most mall landlords don't generally fall in that category. Incidentally I was just out at Oakbrook Center this weekend and saw that GGP redid some of the common areas with a design that ranges from a "meh" to "WTF?" It's like they tried to imitate some recent Westfield rehabs with 40% of the budget.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by k1052

Having seen all sorts of dumb stuff done that obviously cost a lot of money I'm not going to draw too many conclusions about what choices led up to this particular abortion. When I think "well thought out design" most mall landlords don't generally fall in that category. Incidentally I was just out at Oakbrook Center this weekend and saw that GGP redid some of the common areas with a design that ranges from a "meh" to "WTF?" It's like they tried to imitate some recent Westfield rehabs with 40% of the budget.

It is funny how the act of "going shopping" went from one of the classiest activities of day to day life back in the days of Marshall Field's and Carson Pierre Scott to one of the least classy possible activities today. Seriously, there is absolutely zero class in the humiliating act of going to a suburban shopping mall and even less class in going to a big box store. Just look at Target who is making a killing by simply providing what wal-mart provides but in a slightly less demeaning format so the average middle and upper middle class member doesn't feel the need to shower immediately upon returning from the store.

Seriously, I was out in Rosemont the other day for a work christmas party at that new complex they built out there and just wanted to kill myself. The "MB Financial Park at Rosemont" (Killer name brah) is about the worst thing I have ever seen between the fact that all the restaurants are basically hilarious disneyesque themes designed to cater to the highest multi-cultural tastes of the fine citizens of Des Plaines, IL, the fact that all the restaurants just front an enormous, ultra confusing parking garage, to the details of the design especially the sickly green astroturf that makes up the "Park" itself. Also, the striking views of the the freeway at grade level aren't so wonderful either.

Then there is the Fashion Outlets of Chicago (at Rosemont???), don't even get me started there. The name itself says it all. They aren't even real outlet stores as 90% of the prices are at normal levels, no real deals to be had here folks, moving on...

[k1052]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Seriously, I was out in Rosemont the other day for a work christmas party at that new complex they built out there and just wanted to kill myself. The "MB Financial Park at Rosemont" (Killer name brah) is about the worst thing I have ever seen between the fact that all the restaurants are basically hilarious disneyesque themes designed to cater to the highest multi-cultural tastes of the fine citizens of Des Plaines, IL, the fact that all the restaurants just front an enormous, ultra confusing parking garage, to the details of the design especially the sickly green astroturf that makes up the "Park" itself. Also, the striking views of the the freeway at grade level aren't so wonderful either.


Then there is the Fashion Outlets of Chicago (at Rosemont???), don't even get me started there. The name itself says it all. They aren't even real outlet stores as 90% of the prices are at normal levels, no real deals to be had here folks, moving on...

Rosemont's all thumbs attempt to mimic a more urban feel has been well received by the suburbanites I talk to. Its a couple cuts above (from their perspective) the endless seas of strip malls and outlot mega-chain restaurants that are so common that without GPS you don't know where the hell you are. Tourists staying at airport adjacent hotels also seem to like it.

I haven't had a chance to go look at the Fashion Outlets yet, it is on my to do list even though I have a deep seething hatred of outlet shopping.

[SamInTheLoop]

[QUOTE=LouisVanDerWright;6359965]Just look at Target who is making a killing by simply providing what wal-mart provides but in a slightly less demeaning format so the average middle and upper middle class member doesn't feel the need to shower immediately upon returning from the store. QUOTE]







Nice.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

It is funny how the act of "going shopping" went from one of the classiest activities of day to day life back in the days of Marshall Field's and Carson Pierre Scott to one of the least classy possible activities today. Seriously, there is absolutely zero class in the humiliating act of going to a suburban shopping mall and even less class in going to a big box store. Just look at Target who is making a killing by simply providing what wal-mart provides but in a slightly less demeaning format so the average middle and upper middle class member doesn't feel the need to shower immediately upon returning from the store.

Seriously, I was out in Rosemont the other day for a work christmas party at that new complex they built out there and just wanted to kill myself. The "MB Financial Park at Rosemont" (Killer name brah) is about the worst thing I have ever seen between the fact that all the restaurants are basically hilarious disneyesque themes designed to cater to the highest multi-cultural tastes of the fine citizens of Des Plaines, IL, the fact that all the restaurants just front an enormous, ultra confusing parking garage, to the details of the design especially the sickly green astroturf that makes up the "Park" itself. Also, the striking views of the the freeway at grade level aren't so wonderful either.

Then there is the Fashion Outlets of Chicago (at Rosemont???), don't even get me started there. The name itself says it all. They aren't even real outlet stores as 90% of the prices are at normal levels, no real deals to be had here folks, moving on...

I usually agree with you but you kinda lost me here. I see plenty of people shopping at suburban malls and they don't look humiliated to me. If someone feels humiliated being at a shopping mall or even a Walmart, then they have some issues that need to be sorted out, that's for sure.

Oh, and the Fashion Outlets are not bad.

Reality is, Chicago's burbs have some of the better malls in the country, and I'd rather we have them as an option than not.

[wierdaaron]

A similar thing gets brought up about air travel and going to the movies. People used to get dressed up for those activities, and now people wear sweatpants and crocs. What has happened to society?! etc.

The answer is that things are more affordable. You used to have to be a fully wealthy person to go shopping or buy an air ticket or see a moving picture, and as those things got more affordable there was a period where people still felt like they should dress up because what they're doing used to be restricted to the elites within recent memory.

Now, nobody remembers people wearing suits and fedoras to the airport or department store, so there's no social guilt to wearing casual/comfortable clothes to those places.

Anyway, that Northbridge facade change is terrible and you can't even read the type.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Reality is, Chicago's burbs have some of the better malls in the country, and I'd rather we have them as an option than not.

I've found that Chicago has more middle of the road quality options while a lot of other major metro areas only have stuff on the opposite ends of the spectrum (crappy to good).

If I had a gun to my head however and somebody told me to pick ten malls to lease in heedless of cost only one of them might be here.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by k1052

If I had a gun to my head however and somebody told me to pick ten malls to lease in heedless of cost only one of them might be here.

^ Wow, you're harsh. Old Orchard, Northbrook Ct, Oakbrook center, Woodfield, Gurnee Mills and (now) Fashion Outlets immediately come to mind as successful and variably large malls with good stores (assuming you aren't an urbanist who abhors malls, which I fully appreciate that 75% of the forumers here do).

But whatever, this can't be a Chicago thread without at least one person regurgitating the "Chicago isn't as good as the coasts" stupidity

[k1052]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Wow, you're harsh. Old Orchard, Northbrook Ct, Oakbrook center, Woodfield, Gurnee Mills and (now) Fashion Outlets immediately come to mind as successful and variably large malls with good stores (assuming you aren't an urbanist who abhors malls, which I fully appreciate that 75% of the forumers here do).

But whatever, this can't be a Chicago thread without at least one person regurgitating the "Chicago isn't as good as the coasts" stupidity

Hm..maybe what I was trying to say didn't come across clearly. I tend to think about malls on a spectrum of quality (based on how they are retailed, upkeep, finishes, etc). The Chicagoland had more middle to upper middle of the spectrum malls than most places from my experience. The coasts seem to have much less in the middle and a lot on the crappy and great ends of the spectrum.

For the record I do not hate malls.

[marothisu]

I have to admit. I am really liking the rendering of 858 N Franklin (Franklin and Chestnut). What else has this group designed around town?

http://chicago.curbed.com/archives/2...-look-like.php

[the urban politician]

^ I think it's a beautiful design, but jeez can you say "fuck you" more loudly at the ground level?

[LouisVanDerWright]

^^^ That's a very nice design, I love it.


Back to malls, I disagree strongly that we have "some of the better malls" in the country. None of our malls really approach the top tier malls like the Galleria in Dallas.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Seriously, I was out in Rosemont the other day for a work christmas party at that new complex they built out there and just wanted to kill myself

Then there is the Fashion Outlets of Chicago (at Rosemont???), don't even get me started there.

Actually I believe a portion of the complex is within Chicago city limits, as the city controls a one-block strip north of Foster to connect Chicago proper with O'Hare. You won't find me hanging out at MB Financial Park, but it's not because of poor urban design. They have the same crappy bro establishments I can find in Wrigleyville, but that doesn't make Wrigleyville suburban either.

For what it's worth, Rosemont is seeking to improve pedestrian connections to the River Road CTA station.

Originally Posted by k1052

Having seen all sorts of dumb stuff done that obviously cost a lot of money I'm not going to draw too many conclusions about what choices led up to this particular abortion. When I think "well thought out design" most mall landlords don't generally fall in that category. Incidentally I was just out at Oakbrook Center this weekend and saw that GGP redid some of the common areas with a design that ranges from a "meh" to "WTF?" It's like they tried to imitate some recent Westfield rehabs with 40% of the budget.

I like the Oakbrook renovation, honestly. It works well with the remaining elements of the mid-century modern design, and it seems to do a good job of encouraging people to spend time outdoors. Lots of well-designed seating areas, even one including a fireplace for cold weather.

It doesn't have the same understated feel that the original 1950s design had, but American consumers don't want understated.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ I think it's a beautiful design, but jeez can you say "fuck you" more loudly at the ground level?

Agreed, though I think it's obviously glass on the ground level or some sort of reflective surface. I think it looks like concrete and crap until you look more closely and you can clearly (but faintly) see the reflection of the trees and street on it. I hope in real life it ends up lighter than that or the light hits it differently

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

Back to malls, I disagree strongly that we have "some of the better malls" in the country. None of our malls really approach the top tier malls like the Galleria in Dallas.

^ I don't understand your logic here. You are discounting all of the malls in the Chicago area by comparing it to one, outstanding mall elsewhere?

That's the logical equivalent of saying that Chicago doesn't have "some of the better architecture in the country" by posting up a picture of an outstanding highrise in downtown Atlanta.

And besides, I'm kind of glad that Chicago has good but not amazing malls. That's kind of the point of having a kick ass downtown that is envy of most cities in America