Canadian Airport Thread II

[Myst]

I don’t get why anyone would publish a route map to destinations they don’t yet offer. What is the marketing or strategic benefit to saying “we may or may not serve you at an unspecified time”?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Base

Surprised no Kelowna or Fort Mac on the potential future destinations.

Disappointing that neither K-W nor London appear as "potentials".

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Disappointing that neither K-W nor London appear as "potentials".

Never say never though. I’m pretty sure PSP wasn't ever on the futures list. Heck in PD’s early days, Atlantic Canada wasn’t on the original futures map yet they showed up there early in their history.

[fanofYOW]

SAN, PSP, YYJ, YYG, YDF were never listed as potential before they launched them.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Myst

I don’t get why anyone would publish a route map to destinations they don’t yet offer. What is the marketing or strategic benefit to saying “we may or may not serve you at an unspecified time”?

Probably a message mentioned of other carriers. Most of them are US hubs that used to fly to more Canadian destinations so it can be part of a plan to keep the Delta, United et al from adding Canadian destinations from Atlanta, Denver etc.

[zahav]

Flair Airlines Adds Increased Frequencies Between Alberta and B.C.

With up to five daily flights between Vancouver and Calgary, Flair is connecting Alberta and B.C. reliably, affordably, and conveniently.

December 10, 2024, EDMONTON, Alberta – Flair Airlines, Canada’s most reliable airline and home of Canada’s only On-Time Guarantee, is excited to announce enhanced frequencies between Edmonton International Airport (YEG), Calgary International Airport (YYC) and Vancouver International Airport (YVR), Abbotsford International Airport (YXX). Beginning in April 2025, frequencies in these key markets will increase significantly, featuring up to five flights daily between YVR and YYC.

Routes and Peak Frequencies in Summer 2025:
“The interconnectivity between Alberta and British Columbia is only gettng stronger and more economically essential,” said Eric Tanner, VP of Network Planning and Revenue Management at Flair Airlines. “Flair is empowering passengers to do day trips between Alberta and British Columbia with affordable, convenient flight options in the morning and evening.”

Summer 2025 will see up to 340 additonal monthly flights across these routes compared to last year, representng a year-over-year increase of 50% or more for each one. The increased frequencies are possible due in part to the strong cooperation between Flair and the YEG, YYC, YVR and YXX airports. More daily flights between Alberta and B.C. enhances convenience and connectivity for passengers.

Route Peak Frequency Change vs. 2024
Calgary (YYC) to Vancouver (YVR) 33x weekly +57%
Edmonton (YEG) to Abbotsford (YXX) 25x weekly +56%
Edmonton (YEG) to Vancouver (YVR) 24x weekly +50%
Calgary (YYC) to Abbotsford (YXX) 21x weekly +50%


The Lower Mainland <> YEG/YYC market already has so much capacity I am surprised Flair would add this much extra. And on WS's key routes nonetheless! WS will not retreat (at least not on YVR routes, can't say for YXX). WS recently bumped YEG and YYC to YVR up for summer (53 and 119 weekly, respectively), I think pretty close to pre-pandemic. WS isn't going to be intimidated by Flair on these routes, no way.

If anything, it is AC that has backed down a bit on these routes, and isn't all too concerned about it either lol! Don't get me wrong, they still have a solid presence on YVR to YEG and YYC, and by no means abandoned the routes. So while I think frequency is down marginally compared to years past, AC has also ditched the A319 on these routes (120 seats), where it used to feature prominently. And so now a mix of A320 (146 seats) and B737 (169 seats) operate YYC, plus 1 daily A220, which has 137 seats. So I'd say the average aircraft capacity has gone up, but frequencies down or flat. YEG will only be on the 320 and then two Jazz CRA planes (76 seats). The A319 was a good capacity plane on the YVR>YEG and YYC route, and kept them all mainline. But lacking a mainline plane smaller than the A220 means Jazz gets thrown on some of these routes because it can't handle that many 320s or 737s. And I think they only care about being able to shuttle connecting pax to/from YVR's network and attract business pax, rather than capturing market share from WS. They wouldn't fight tooth and nail to take WS down on these routes, they're fine being a smaller player but keeping a respectable presence between such major markets. But F9 is really poking the bear with this latest schedule, definitely going after the same market. It could affect AC still, but it's more aimed at WS. I hope they know what they're doing. Increasing YEG makes more sense as it isn't WS's top priority and the market can probably take more. But YYC-YVR is WS's flagship, and YYC is their fortress, they won't let F9 rattle them

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by zahav

Flair Airlines Adds Increased Frequencies Between Alberta and B.C.

With up to five daily flights between Vancouver and Calgary, Flair is connecting Alberta and B.C. reliably, affordably, and conveniently.

December 10, 2024, EDMONTON, Alberta – Flair Airlines, Canada’s most reliable airline and home of Canada’s only On-Time Guarantee, is excited to announce enhanced frequencies between Edmonton International Airport (YEG), Calgary International Airport (YYC) and Vancouver International Airport (YVR), Abbotsford International Airport (YXX). Beginning in April 2025, frequencies in these key markets will increase significantly, featuring up to five flights daily between YVR and YYC.

Routes and Peak Frequencies in Summer 2025:
“The interconnectivity between Alberta and British Columbia is only gettng stronger and more economically essential,” said Eric Tanner, VP of Network Planning and Revenue Management at Flair Airlines. “Flair is empowering passengers to do day trips between Alberta and British Columbia with affordable, convenient flight options in the morning and evening.”

Summer 2025 will see up to 340 additonal monthly flights across these routes compared to last year, representng a year-over-year increase of 50% or more for each one. The increased frequencies are possible due in part to the strong cooperation between Flair and the YEG, YYC, YVR and YXX airports. More daily flights between Alberta and B.C. enhances convenience and connectivity for passengers.

Route Peak Frequency Change vs. 2024
Calgary (YYC) to Vancouver (YVR) 33x weekly +57%
Edmonton (YEG) to Abbotsford (YXX) 25x weekly +56%
Edmonton (YEG) to Vancouver (YVR) 24x weekly +50%
Calgary (YYC) to Abbotsford (YXX) 21x weekly +50%


The Lower Mainland <> YEG/YYC market already has so much capacity I am surprised Flair would add this much extra. And on WS's key routes nonetheless! WS will not retreat (at least not on YVR routes, can't say for YXX). WS recently bumped YEG and YYC to YVR up for summer (53 and 119 weekly, respectively), I think pretty close to pre-pandemic. WS isn't going to be intimidated by Flair on these routes, no way.

If anything, it is AC that has backed down a bit on these routes, and isn't all too concerned about it either lol! Don't get me wrong, they still have a solid presence on YVR to YEG and YYC, and by no means abandoned the routes. So while I think frequency is down marginally compared to years past, AC has also ditched the A319 on these routes (120 seats), where it used to feature prominently. And so now a mix of A320 (146 seats) and B737 (169 seats) operate YYC, plus 1 daily A220, which has 137 seats. So I'd say the average aircraft capacity has gone up, but frequencies down or flat. YEG will only be on the 320 and then two Jazz CRA planes (76 seats). The A319 was a good capacity plane on the YVR>YEG and YYC route, and kept them all mainline. But lacking a mainline plane smaller than the A220 means Jazz gets thrown on some of these routes because it can't handle that many 320s or 737s. And I think they only care about being able to shuttle connecting pax to/from YVR's network and attract business pax, rather than capturing market share from WS. They wouldn't fight tooth and nail to take WS down on these routes, they're fine being a smaller player but keeping a respectable presence between such major markets. But F9 is really poking the bear with this latest schedule, definitely going after the same market. It could affect AC still, but it's more aimed at WS. I hope they know what they're doing. Increasing YEG makes more sense as it isn't WS's top priority and the market can probably take more. But YYC-YVR is WS's flagship, and YYC is their fortress, they won't let F9 rattle them

Good points.

There’s strong demand every year (especially during Spring/Summer) for Alberta - BC travel both directions : whether is flying✈️, taking the bus , VIA Rail train or driving✅.

Yes - Flair adding more frequencies is aimed at WestJet & also (trying) to prevent Porter’s entry on the Vancouver YVR- Calgary YYC - Edmonton YEG routes.

As for Air Canada their presence in Calgary YYC/ Edmonton YEG ,is focused on connecting its main AC hubs at YVR, Toronto YYZ & Montreal YUL. AC is not too worried about WestJet & Flair battling it out in the West✅.

Of course yes, WestJet will defend its Calgary YYC fortress hub , as they will add flight frequencies & new routes there 1st .

[Dominion301]

Here's the detailed breakdown of YOW's November traffic:

Sector / Nov-23 / Nov-24 / % Change
Dom: 231,101 / 284,938 / +23.3% - no F8 year-over-year to contend with. Just under 2015's total
TB: 54,523 / 69,710 / +27.9% - the last time Nov. was > 60K was in 2000 when the old terminal handled 60,689 TB pax!
Int'l: 29,368 / 27,705 / -5.7% - no F8 & WS this year. Int'l will probably be down in Q1 2025, then way up during April-October with LHR returning
TTL: 314,992 / 382,353 / +21.4%

Sector / YTD 2023 / YTD 2024 / % Change
Dom: 2,967,333 / 3,102,793 / +4.6%
TB: 503,265 / 699,980 / +39.1%
Int'l: 260,297 / 375,855 / +44.4%
TTL: 3,730,895 / 4,178,628 / +12.0%

% of traffic recovered
Sector / % recovered Nov 24 vs 19 / YTD 24 vs 19
Dom: 91.7% / 84.3%
TB: 146.7% / 111.5%
Int'l: 122.7% / 99.1%
TTL: 100.4% / 89.2% - 1st time above 2019 in a single month since the pandemic - still below Nov 2018's total of 391,751

12 Months Rolling / % Change vs Year End 2022
Dom: 3,338,359 / +23.2%
TB: 772,848 / +306.0% - this is now the 2nd highest 12 month TB total. Dec needs to be 75,061 to break the 2012 all-time record of 775,040
Int'l: 432,440 / +329.6%
TTL: 4,543,647 / +51.5%

[Dominion301]

YHZ's October traffic:

Sector / 2019 / 2023 / 2024 / % Change vs 23 / vs 19
Dom: 323,726 / 282,303 / 289,946 / +2.7% / -10.4%
TB: 31,610 / 16,675 / 29,532 / +77.1% / -6.6%
Int'l: 15,673 / 13,357 / 26,513 / +98.5% / +69.2%
TTL: 371,009 / 312,335 / 345,991 / +10.8% / -6.7%

Year-to-Date
Sector / 2019 / 2023 / 2024 / % Change vs 23 / vs 19
Dom: 3,026,683 / 2,661,813 / 2,762,943 / +3.8% / -8.7%
TB: 320,502 / 167,378 / 271,200 / +62.0% / -15.4%
Int'l: 297,722 / 288,904 / 410,200 / +42.0% / +37.8%
Total 3,644,907 / 3,118,095 / 3,444,343 / +10.5% / -5.5%

[Calfan12]

From June 15 - August 31 2025, the Condor Airlines ✈️ Frankfurt FRA-Calgary YYC - FRA route, will operate 5x weekly. This is increase from (Summer 2024) which it operated 2x weekly.

For S25, YYC-FRA is 12x weekly: Discover Airlines 7x & Condor 5x.
& add in the new 4x weekly YYC—Munich MUC on Discover Airlines .
16x weekly departures for YYC - Germany.

[Myst]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Probably a message mentioned of other carriers. Most of them are US hubs that used to fly to more Canadian destinations so it can be part of a plan to keep the Delta, United et al from adding Canadian destinations from Atlanta, Denver etc.

Aviation enthusiasts - myself included - might like them. But I only see negatives to having imaginary route maps. If you look at the YEG-ORD tiff between WS and UA, I’d say it’s more likely to draw competition rather than ward it off. And if you look at couple of posts above you’ll see another negative - people unhappy with not even being on the prospective list. And for whichever city gets started next, I don’t think it does anything to build anticipation or excitement - it just becomes “about time” or “what took so long” or “old news.” And even to me as an enthusiast it looks more like a vurtual than a real carrier. Where is the plus?

[Airboy]

YEGs numbers

Monthly passenger stats November 2024​
Terminal​
Terminal Traffic: 581,240 passengers (Year-to-date 6,610,770 passengers) 17.1% (Year-to-date 3.4%)
Domestic 442,703 passengers (Year-to-date 5,294,378 passengers) 18.6% (Year-to-date -0.2%)
Transborder 80,817 passengers (Year-to-date 863,845 passengers) 23.5% (Year-to-date 28.8%)
International 57,720 passengers (Year-to-date 452,547 passengers) -0.1% (Year-to-date 8.4%)
Fixed Base Operators (FBO)​
63,614 passengers (Year-to-date 638,174 passengers) 34.7% (Year-to-date 18.9%)
Total passengers (Terminal and FBO)​
644,854 passengers (Year-to-date 7,248,944 passengers)18.6% (Year-to-date 4.6%)

[MountainView]

Thanks for posting the YEG numbers.

I feel like this is what YOW could be if it wasn't sandwiched between YYZ and YUL - with the latter YUL only being a 90 minute drive away for exponentially more direct flights (and by association often cheaper).

[Airboy]

YEGS numbers may be higher if we had more direct flights.

Recent announcements though. Porter from YEG to West Palm Beach is a shocker. Would have thought Phoenix at least.

[Justanothermember]

Originally Posted by Airboy

YEGS numbers may be higher if we had more direct flights.

Recent announcements though. Porter from YEG to West Palm Beach is a shocker. Would have thought Phoenix at least.

Where are you seeing this?

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

Where are you seeing this?

https://www.flyporter.com/en_ca/flig...est-palm-beach

Jan 10 $255.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Myst

Aviation enthusiasts - myself included - might like them. But I only see negatives to having imaginary route maps. If you look at the YEG-ORD tiff between WS and UA, I’d say it’s more likely to draw competition rather than ward it off. And if you look at couple of posts above you’ll see another negative - people unhappy with not even being on the prospective list. And for whichever city gets started next, I don’t think it does anything to build anticipation or excitement - it just becomes “about time” or “what took so long” or “old news.” And even to me as an enthusiast it looks more like a vurtual than a real carrier. Where is the plus?

Assuming they have a strategy (PD's lurch in every directions suggests they might not) they have a reason for releasing the map. Signaling other carriers or to the airports that they are on the radar in an effort to maintain momentum. I tend to agree though actual announcements even if very early are what scares off others. (If anyone is scared of Porter at this point)

[Justanothermember]

Originally Posted by Airboy

https://www.flyporter.com/en_ca/flig...est-palm-beach

Jan 10 $255.

Right, but it's not a direct/non-stop flight, which is what I thought you meant (connecting flight is in YYZ). If it were direct/non-stop that could have been a first for Porter, having point-to-point flights from non-hub airports.

[hollywoodcory]

YEG/YOW already releasing their November numbers well YYC still hasn't even published September numbers. I don't think they've ever been this slow in releasing the monthly stats.

[Dominion301]

YWG have finally posted August to October Stats.

August

Sector / Aug-23 / Aug-24 / % Change
Dom: 408,602 / 405,975 / -0.6%
TB: 25,144 / 38,793 / +54.3%
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 433,746 / 444,768 / +2.5%

Sector / YTD 2023 / YTD 2024 / % Change
Dom: 2,451,830 / 2,408,230 / -1.8%
TB: 202,886 / 300,366 / +48.0%
Int'l: 119,626 / 152,130 / +27.2%
TTL: 2,774,342 / 2,860,726 / +3.1%

August % of traffic recovered vs 2019 / YTD vs 2019
Sector / % recovered Aug 24 vs 19 / % recovered YTD 24 vs 19
Dom: 103.5% / 92.7%
TB: 100.3% / 90.9%
Int'l: 0.0% / 97.4%
TTL: 102.7% / 92.8%

September

Sector / Sep-23 / Sep-24 / % Change
Dom: 338,395 / 326,481 / -3.5%
TB: 24,975 / 34,412 / +37.8%
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 363,370 / 360,893 / -0.7%

Sector / YTD 2023 / YTD 2024 / % Change
Dom: 2,790,225 / 2,734,711 / -2.0%
TB: 227,861 / 334,778 / +46.9%
Int'l: 119,626 / 152,130 / +27.2%
TTL: 3,137,712 / 3,221,619 / +2.7%

September % of traffic recovered vs 2019 / YTD vs 2019
Sector / % recovered Sep 24 vs 19 / % recovered YTD 24 vs 19
Dom: 99.3% / 93.5%
TB: 95.3% / 91.3%
Int'l: #DIV/0! / 97.4%
TTL: 98.9% / 93.4%

October

Sector / Oct-23 / Oct-24 / % Chg.
Dom: 333,345 / 335,033 / +0.5%
TB: 27,570 / 39,660 / +43.9%
Int'l: 390 / 1,292 / +231.3%
TTL: 361,305 / 375,985 / +4.1%

Sector / YTD 2023 / YTD 2024 / % Change
Dom: 3,123,570 / 3,069,744 / -1.7%
TB: 255,431 / 374,438 / +46.6%
Int'l: 120,016 / 153,422 / +27.8%
TTL: 3,499,017 / 3,597,604 / +2.8%

October % of traffic recovered vs 2019 / YTD vs 2019
Sector / % recovered Oct 24 vs 19 / % recovered YTD 24 vs 19
Dom: 103.3% / 94.5%
TB: 106.2% / 92.7%
Int'l: 545.1% / 98.1%
TTL: 103.9% / 94.4%

12 Months Rolling (thru Oct) / % Change vs Year End 2022
Dom: 3,554,096 / +27.1%
TB: 407,109 / +146.9%
Int'l: 199,393 / +182.9%
TTL: 4,160,598 / +37.3%