AUSTIN | Misc. Discussions - No Politics

[JAM]

Originally Posted by Sigaven

I 100% agree as well. However, I also believe that simply allowing these folks to pitch tents wheverever they damn well please and do whatever the fuck they want (litter, start fires, dart across traffic, harass passers-by etc) is not fair to the rest of the city NOR is it fair to them. These are essentially little villages of anarchy - they HAVE to be held to a system of rules/laws to follow to protect others as well as themselves. A good temporary solution is designated camping areas on city-owned land with 24/7 security, access to restrooms/kitchens and counseling/services. Idk whether or not city council is working on something like that or not, but we simply cannot let the current situation continue.

Well said.

[kingkirbythe....]

Originally Posted by StoOgE

You know what, if this is going to be allowed to go on, I'm just gonna throw down my gauntlet.

Homelessness is the end-result of an increadibly wealthy society that has a winner take all mentality that views poverty as something that is in some way earned or deserved. We tell ourselves this because those of us who are extremely rich like to also believe that our wealth is 100% earned by the individual and luck or fortune of what circumstances you were born into had nothing to do with it.

It means we ignore the actual causes of homelessness, but what we really dont ever want to do is look at the abject failure of our society in the face, so we would rather arrest people, break up camps and shove them into a green belt where things are actually less safe just so we don't have to look at it.

The homeless population in Austin is going up because the cost of living in the city has gotten out of hand and we've done next to nothing to help the problem. Our country at large views illness, mental illness or addiction as a personal failing and not a societal failing despite all science being to the contrary. We have set up an entire society that is based upon rich people having better access to everything, including what is viewed in much of the world as basis rights.

No one should be happy to see homeless encampments under the streets, its a dark mirror on our own society and are complete lack of a social safety net, and making being homeless illegal so that we don't have to look at it is reductio ad absurdum for how utterly selfish we all are. We want to look at the pretty buildings and cool developments that explosive growth bring without dealing seriously with any of the downsides. East Austin looks absolutely nothing like it used to and housing for lower-middle class people let alone poor people is becoming an endangered species in this city. What low-income housing is being built is not actually for low-income people, its for lower-middle class people and even that is often gamed by land-lords renting to graduate students or people who can hide income when they apply.

I fully expect that we will reinstate the camping ban with zero plan as to what to do to tackle poverty in our society because I think most people just don't want to see people that they don't view as human on a daily basis so they can go on with their lives guilt free.

This.

[nixcity]

If we are to put the blame on cities then we have to blame every city council in the country; this is a nationwide problem that will need major federal support to curb. This is how Finland completely ended homelessness and many other countries live with far fewer per population then we do. Here is an example from GOP third world crime and murder hotbed Ft. Worth.
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/l...247288709.html

[nixcity]

If you are not willing to take the types of steps that Finland (and to a lesser extent every other modern nation on the planet) did then you are not a serious contributor to the solution.
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sunday/the-...ness-1.5437402

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by nixcity

If you are not willing to take the types of steps that Finland (and to a lesser extent every other modern nation on the planet) did then you are not a serious contributor to the solution.
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sunday/the-...ness-1.5437402

Some of us would be more than happy to put forth the money (bonds, taxes, what-have-you) it really takes to fund the necessary initiatives to solve the issue. As Stooge was alluding to above though, a big hurdle to this is the overriding narrative that many present about the homeless. (This is also repeated by others without much thought.) They are painted as being lazy, irresponsible, immoral, and generally bad people who deserve what they get. That narrative is partly to blame for others not wanting to fund the programs necessary. Because few want to help others that they see as bad people.

[wwmiv]

Have any of you ever been homeless?

[eskimo33]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Have any of you ever been homeless?

I have been homeless and it was not by choice nor was it a fun experience. I had a full time tech job working for the State of Georgia and still could not afford rent. (Part of that was my past finical choices, the credit card industries predatory practices on university students and my own self pride) Everyone I met during that time was also not homeless by choice.

IMHO Prop B is nothing more a way for people to hide the homeless problem, not address their personal discomfort in acknowledging the problem and underlying societal issues. Is the current situation sustainable, no is outlawing it the answer no. I tend to think having dedicated spots for camping near social services might be a better temporary solution
The State consistently makes it more difficult to address the homeless problem by banning funding mechanisms that might produce low income housing (such as impact fees and now taking aim at economic development agreements).

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Have any of you ever been homeless?

As a child, yes. We spent a lot of time staying with friends and family at times when we didn't have a home. If it weren't for those friends and family, we very well might have had no choice but to sleep in our car or possibly even a tent. This is an example of what I meant by homeless people being more than what you see in the streets.

Most people don't think of this as being homeless, but it definitely is. No matter what the situation, not having a place to call home and not having your own bed to sleep in is a giant mind fuck. (Especially when you're a kid. I often find that when most people think of the homeless, the idea of homeless children never even enters their mind.) So many just want to vilify those that they see in the streets without realizing that there are many homeless who are not currently in the streets, but are on the edge and only a step away from it.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by paul78701

As a child, yes. We spent a lot of time staying with friends and family at times when we didn't have a home. If it weren't for those friends and family, we very well might have had no choice but to sleep in our car or possibly even a tent. This is an example of what I meant by homeless people being more than what you see in the streets.

Most people don't think of this as being homeless, but it definitely is. No matter what the situation, not having a place to call home and not having your own bed to sleep in is a giant mind fuck. (Especially when you're a kid. I often find that when most people think of the homeless, the idea of homeless children never even enters their mind.) So many just want to vilify those that they see in the streets without realizing that there are many homeless who are not currently in the streets, but are on the edge and only a step away from it.

This would be me for the past three years, which you may or may not be aware.

[StoOgE]

Originally Posted by paul78701

As a child, yes. We spent a lot of time staying with friends and family at times when we didn't have a home. If it weren't for those friends and family, we very well might have had no choice but to sleep in our car or possibly even a tent. This is an example of what I meant by homeless people being more than what you see in the streets.

Most people don't think of this as being homeless, but it definitely is. No matter what the situation, not having a place to call home and not having your own bed to sleep in is a giant mind fuck. (Especially when you're a kid. I often find that when most people think of the homeless, the idea of homeless children never even enters their mind.) So many just want to vilify those that they see in the streets without realizing that there are many homeless who are not currently in the streets, but are on the edge and only a step away from it.

I was never homeless, but a lot of my family was in this exact situation. Sleeping in cars or crashing on our couch occasionally. As a kid it seemed fun because my cousins would be over, or they would be at my grandparents house. None of them ever slept on the street because they had a support network.

Thats what a lot of people don't understand. If you are in a city where you don't have a strong support network (family, friends, etc) its really not that hard to lose your job and wind up sleeping in your car.

My current financial situation is a fair bit removed from how I grew up (single-wide trailer with holes in the floor, no hot water). It's easy to paint a narrative of people on hard times being lazy or choosing a lifestyle, but its a lot easier to fall from the poor to destitute than most people with savings in the bank realize.

I attended a session on homelessness at the Trib fest back when you could do stuff in person and one of the speaker said the average homeless person in Houston wound up on the street over less than 500 bucks.

[nixcity]

Voting to jail people is not the only option. https://www.austinmonitor.com/storie...-homelessness/
Covid has cost us a lot of time on this issue and only exacerbated the numbers as a lack of social nets has led to an increase nationwide. Give them another chance, they are trying.
https://www.austinmonitor.com/storie...-homelessness/

[drummer]

I have not, but I've had close family members who were on and off again for years. This is what I was referring to in my previous post. While it was by no means a choice of theirs to be homeless, their addictions and refusal to accept help from family and friends resulted in loss of work and home for seasons. Addictions led to mental issues in their case.

[StoOgE]

Originally Posted by drummer

I have not, but I've had close family members who were on and off again for years. This is what I was referring to in my previous post. While it was by no means a choice of theirs to be homeless, their addictions and refusal to accept help from family and friends resulted in loss of work and home for seasons. Addictions led to mental issues in their case.

Drug addiction and mental illness in society at large, but especially in the homeless population is incredibly difficult issue. I don't think its something that any city can deal with on its own. It's just a giant issue and there may be no real long-term solutions to it.

I will say, threat of arrest to someone who is addicted to drugs is not going to keep them from camping given that their addiction is already something that could lead to much harsher penalties/jail time.

I think decriminalizing addiction is an important issue, but drugs fucking suck and wreck a lot of lives, and not only is help for it extremely expensive, it very often takes multiple attempts at getting clean before it can stick.

My coach who is a wonderful human was in and out of jail with a pretty serious addiction and wound up homeless for a lot of his adult life, and luckily has found a support network at a local church and an owner of a gym who is willing to let him do some work for him and do private lessons, but he's told me more than once he feels 90% of people where he was won't get that help or won't take that help if offered. Its absolutely heart breaking.

[ahealy]

I think we can all agree Austin needs much much MUCH more affordable housing for every human being, along with proper mental health/drug addiction resources....which are usually a state funded can-o-worms.

This city has been out of control for some time now on housing....I think that's mainly why my enthusiasm has fallen low in the past few years.

[Riverranchdrone]

To answer some peoples questions about homelessness. YES some do choose to be homeless. They want to live off the grid and to break social norms. Tent cities are not that big of an issue. I drive past them all the time and lived next to them. Some upper class people do think it is an eye sore as they gaze from their private communities out of touch with society. Tent cities are here to state until we fix the many issues as a society in general. You will never get rid of them and it will cost way to much to even try. It is better to help those that we can with mental illness, affordability, and drug addiction. Let the few that remain that want to be homeless live in peace. Stop trying to hide it because it is an embarrassment to your rich out of town friends.

[Sigaven]

I do wonder whether those who oppose Prop B are less exposed to the tent cities every day and the problems they cause. For those of us who DO have deal with them daily, we know there is no no NO way we can just let those tent cities continue to exist as-is and get worse.

As I said earlier, it's unfair to everyone (homeless or not) to let the current situation continue. I think the best we can do is pass prop 8 and force the city to come up with an alternate solution to help these people instead of wasting police resources arresting the homeless and cleaning up camps whenever they pop up.

[StoOgE]

Originally Posted by Sigaven

For those of us who DO have deal with them daily, we know there is no no NO way we can just let those tent cities continue to exist as-is and get worse.

Bro, I live like 2 blocks from one of them. There are two other homeless people that live somewhere in our neighborhood because I see them often. I haven't had any property damage, no one has bothered me and its mostly been fine. Trash pick-up could be better, and I suspect will be as covid starts getting under control and its easier for volunteer groups to come back out in force.

This narrative that people who don't want to jail people for being in poverty are stupid or don't know what we are talking about it getting real trying.

Like earlier I had a guy who was like "talk to people who talk to homeless people" and when I said I volunteered with the homeless population, crickets.

No one should be happy with the current situation, it does not mean arresting people and stripping them of their handful of earthly possessions is the answer.

[KevinFromTexas]

It's not just an Austin problem, a big city problem or a left or right problem. I've seen it all over Texas. And then there's this:

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...him-to-austin/

AUSTIN (KXAN) — On Tuesday, the head of Austin’s police union posted a video to social media showing a Giddings Police Dept. officer dropping someone off at the Austin Resource Center for the Homeless.

Casaday, the Austin police union president, said agencies in surrounding counties routinely bring homeless individuals to Austin. KXAN has reached out to law enforcement agencies to verify his claim.

[atxsnail]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

It's not just an Austin problem, a big city problem or a left or right problem. I've seen it all over Texas. And then there's this:

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...him-to-austin/

AUSTIN (KXAN) — On Tuesday, the head of Austin’s police union posted a video to social media showing a Giddings Police Dept. officer dropping someone off at the Austin Resource Center for the Homeless.

Casaday, the Austin police union president, said agencies in surrounding counties routinely bring homeless individuals to Austin. KXAN has reached out to law enforcement agencies to verify his claim.

I'll keep my Prop B thoughts to myself but can we please agree to never take anything Ken Casaday says at face value?

I'm a big union supporter but police unions are different animals and their spokespeople should often be treated with the same healthy skepticism that is usually reserved for major trade associations and other powerful interest groups. Casaday has long burned through any goodwill he's ever deserved IMO.

[papertowelroll]

For me the last straw was CoA / APD allowing camping throughout parks and along town lake. Underpasses are one thing, but letting it expand into parks (and the most prized ones at that) is a significant QoL detraction for regular citizens. It's bizarre that people in the city government think that this is acceptable policy.