Federal Government & Politics II

[thurmas]

I don't think its fair comparing Alberta to Norway with how stubborn and American in many ways the Alberta culture is when it comes to Oil and Gas. They obviously want to go the U.S. or Australia route and extract as much as they can as soon as they can. They obviously do not care about having a PST to insulate their economy or plan for proper well cleanups. If thats their end game have at er I guess and bring in the revenue now as they won't listen anyway. America atleast is enjoying good economic times right now producing more than they have ever before regardless of consequences and our economy could certainly use some resources boom monies right now with how weak our economy is to the u.s. right now.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I'm very grateful that the global environmental movement is rapidly getting over their anti-nuclear vendetta and their wind & solar fetish. Nuclear deployment is rapidly becoming the consensus option for green energy. And that's very good. Only a nuclear based grid can actually provide all of the primary energy use for an entire economy. All the bright minds get it.

Well, the unfortunate reality is that North American nuclear is almost a non-starter due to the cost and time frame involved. It has been a financial disaster in a few places recently.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I'm very grateful that the global environmental movement is rapidly getting over their anti-nuclear vendetta and their wind & solar fetish. Nuclear deployment is rapidly becoming the consensus option for green energy. And that's very good. Only a nuclear based grid can actually provide all of the primary energy use for an entire economy. All the bright minds get it.

This both seems overly optimistic about the acceptance of the global environmental movement and a bit dismissive of the many bright minds who think nuclear just isn't worth the risk. Of course many of these people and really against almost any development and would be happy if we used a lot less energy and were a lot poorer (and maybe in Canada we'd be a happier with that lifestyle change though most of those people suck at the government teat and delusional about the source of their wealth which is often substantial)

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I'm very grateful that the global environmental movement is rapidly getting over their anti-nuclear vendetta and their wind & solar fetish. Nuclear deployment is rapidly becoming the consensus option for green energy. And that's very good. Only a nuclear based grid can actually provide all of the primary energy use for an entire economy. All the bright minds get it.

I wish people would stop seeing things as binary. Honestly, the binary discussions really reveal how ignorant people are about the topic. It's not build nuclear OR renewables. It's build nuclear AND renewables. These energy sources all serve different functions and have different prices. It's a multi-variable optimization problem. Renewables are cheaper and faster to build. Nuclear can provide baseload and margin for seasonality, but is more expensive. But that higher cost also negates the need for energy storage. The exact mix will vary for each region. But for a country like Canada to simply go all in on nuclear and not exploit the insane renewables potential would not just be stupid. It would also be insanely expensive.

And just to head off the usual arguments about McGuinty's disastrous energy policy, just look up the price declines in renewables since then. Solar for example:



https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/20...v-systems.html

[Build.It]

No one is saying that there isn't a place for solar. But you can't rely on it without massive energy storage.

And we would need to use literally thousands of square kms to power the country with solar.

This solar plant in Sarnia is roughly 4 square kms, for 80 MW
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UaT8hrVyw3i16XRa7

Compare it to Darlington which is also about 4 sqkm, for 3512 MW
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8708...er=0&entry=ttu

Solar is fine for localized applications - eg on someones roof, or to power sign. But you can't power a massive grid with solar.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Norway is such a gold standard on managing resource wealth that Guyana has asked them to run independent oversight and help develop management strategies for their newfound oil wealth. I don't think anybody will ask Alberta for advice on managing resource wealth in our lifetimes.

Peter Lougheed would be rolling in his grave with the succession of idiots in power of his beloved Province
Squandering resources and not diversifying enough for the future

Old article but still true
Lougheed’s legacy wasted
https://www.reddeeradvocate.com/opin...wasted-7009259

[Truenorth00]

I will add that the regular focus on nuclear is bizarre for Canada. A lot of that outsized push for nuclear in Canada, seems contrived or mostly informed by right wing deflection points about cleantech coming from the US. Why is it bizarre for Canada? Because we have an insane amount of hydro, which usually addresses a lot of the baseload and seasonality that nuclear does in other markets. There's really only a few provinces where nuclear makes sense. And that's the ones lacking substantial hydro resources. And in some of those provinces (Atlantic for example), there's a strong argument that better connections to hydro elsewhere is the better (and cheaper) solution.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Build.It

No one is saying that there isn't a place for solar. But you can't rely on it without massive energy storage.

And we would need to use literally thousands of square kms to power the country with solar.

This solar plant in Sarnia is roughly 4 square kms, for 80 MW
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UaT8hrVyw3i16XRa7

Compare it to Darlington which is also about 4 sqkm, for 3512 MW
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8708...er=0&entry=ttu

Solar is fine for localized applications - eg on someones roof, or to power sign. But you can't power a massive grid with solar.

Do you struggle with literacy? Or are you just so used to repeating talking points on forums after reading keywords that you don't pay attention to what you're responding to? I literally just said it's not about binary options and that a full grid mix is needed. Yes, you can't run a full grid on solar. Nobody ever suggested that. But if you try to run a full grid on nuclear, you will not like the power bills you get either.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Peter Lougheed would be rolling in his grave with the succession of idiots in power of his beloved Province
Squandering resources and not diversifying enough for the future

Old article but still true
Lougheed’s legacy wasted
https://www.reddeeradvocate.com/opin...wasted-7009259

The thing that blew my mind was learning about Alberta's orphan well liabilities and how little has been collected to address that. I can now understand why the energy transition scares Albertans so much. Forget the end of oil. Any permanent repositioning of the oil price band to a much lower level and Alberta will have a fiscal, economic and environmental disaster on its hands.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

This both seems overly optimistic about the acceptance of the global environmental movement and a bit dismissive of the many bright minds who think nuclear just isn't worth the risk. Of course many of these people and really against almost any development and would be happy if we used a lot less energy and were a lot poorer (and maybe in Canada we'd be a happier with that lifestyle change though most of those people suck at the government teat and delusional about the source of their wealth which is often substantial)

The flip side of this are all the internet geniuses who have never taken Thermo 101 and don't understand that electrified systems need a lot less energy and produce less waste heat output. In a hypothetical scenario where 100% of cars on the road were electric, total electricity consumption would be higher, but total all source energy consumption would be substantially lower, especially after accounting for all energy losses of the refining and distribution processes. It is thermodynamically more efficient to actually have a 100% EV fleet run on electricity generated by burning oil than it is to refine that oil, distribute it and burn it in their engines instead.

But ya know. Culture warriors aren't big on actual science....

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I will add that the regular focus on nuclear is bizarre for Canada. A lot of that outsized push for nuclear in Canada, seems contrived or mostly informed by right wing deflection points about cleantech coming from the US. Why is it bizarre for Canada? Because we have an insane amount of hydro, which usually addresses a lot of the baseload and seasonality that nuclear does in other markets. There's really only a few provinces where nuclear makes sense. And that's the ones lacking substantial hydro resources. And in some of those provinces (Atlantic for example), there's a strong argument that better connections to hydro elsewhere is the better (and cheaper) solution.

Hydro is easily the best baseline power for the future. It can even act as a battery during times when solar and wind are at high production.

The issue is HV interconnects between power suppliers and users. That's where we need a national strategy IMO.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by thurmas

I don't think its fair comparing Alberta to Norway with how stubborn and American in many ways the Alberta culture is when it comes to Oil and Gas. They obviously want to go the U.S. or Australia route and extract as much as they can as soon as they can. They obviously do not care about having a PST to insulate their economy or plan for proper well cleanups. If thats their end game have at er I guess and bring in the revenue now as they won't listen anyway. America atleast is enjoying good economic times right now producing more than they have ever before regardless of consequences and our economy could certainly use some resources boom monies right now with how weak our economy is to the u.s. right now.

Alaska is part of America. They don't have a national oil company either. They have to rely on the private sector just like Alberta. They also have the same lax attitude to the environment and low taxes. In fact, Alaska has no state income or sales tax. And yet:

Alberta. 4.8M population. $21B SWF
Alaska. 0.8M population. $64B SWF

It's good thing equalization exists. Obfuscating around redistribution of federal income tax revenue is a really nice distraction from the objectively poor management of wealth in that province.

Imagine looking at all these comparisons and thinking that these might be the guys to trust with your pension savings....

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Peter Lougheed would be rolling in his grave with the succession of idiots in power of his beloved Province
Squandering resources and not diversifying enough for the future

Old article but still true
Lougheed’s legacy wasted
https://www.reddeeradvocate.com/opin...wasted-7009259

First generation builds it.

Second generation runs it.

Third generation loses it.

Alberta is just a third generation trust fund kid and the lower the balance gets, the more they'll blame their cousins.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

First generation builds it.

Second generation runs it.

Third generation loses it.

Alberta is just a third generation trust fund kid and the lower the balance gets, the more they'll blame their cousins.

Now do Quebec.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Alaska is part of America. They don't have a national oil company either. They have to rely on the private sector just like Alberta. They also have the same lax attitude to the environment and low taxes. In fact, Alaska has no state income or sales tax. And yet:

Alberta. 4.8M population. $21B SWF
Alaska. 0.8M population. $64B SWF

It's good thing equalization exists. Obfuscating around redistribution of federal income tax revenue is a really nice distraction from the objectively poor management of wealth in that province.

Imagine looking at all these comparisons and thinking that these might be the guys to trust with your pension savings....

Oy I did not realize Alberta is that dumb. I cannot explain why they do things the way they do seems after the Stelmach and Prentice years is when they really fell off the rails.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

Now do Quebec.

Quebec has never claimed to be uniquely industrious or suggested they'd be way richer if it wasn't for Canada.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

Now do Quebec.

The go to whataboutism for all angry Alberta conservatives.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Oy I did not realize Alberta is that dumb. I cannot explain why they do things the way they do seems after the Stelmach and Prentice years is when they really fell off the rails.

Sadly Stelmach was a fantastic Premier in comparison. He upped royalties to try and right the ship, started the conversation about reducing emissions and created AHS. They ousted him over the Royalty review and not a single conservative Premier has lasted a full term since. The angry pitchfork pickup crowd finds nothing but grievance in every leader who doesn’t go full Alabama Republican. Acknowledging human caused climate change is a sin. Only Migsian delusion will do. Now they have that with Smith. But at some point she will have to acknowledge reality of some kind, such as now with the drop in oil prices, and she’ll piss off the Take Back Alberta gang who will turn on her too. Now she’s backtracked income tax cuts that she promised on day 1 and is instead saying they’ll need to look at the budget over the next 4 years. Even Rick Bell from the Calgary Sun is calling her out for it.

[Docere]

Interestingly Rachel Notley will not be leading the Alberta NDP in the next election.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Quebec has never claimed to be uniquely industrious or suggested they'd be way richer if it wasn't for Canada.

Exactly. Alberta separatism would be more bearable if it mirrored Quebec’s (Albertans: “Sure, we’d be poorer and we’d be landlocked, but at least we’d be independent!” would actually have my respect … if that’s what they really wanted)