The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread - Page 104

Truenorth00 · #**2061** Posted **Apr 14, 2023, 12:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Looks like a worn bar of soap?

I'm with you. The old Porsche-esque lights were better. This is rather plain.

Acajack · #**2062** Posted **Apr 14, 2023, 1:05 PM**

Tesla's design often reminds me of a cheap shiny blouse you buy at Dollarama, Giant Tiger or Biway: it wants to give the impression it's high quality but deep down it really isn't.

OldDartmouthMark · #**2063** Posted **Apr 14, 2023, 1:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

It can be hard to find an ideal charging time since gassing ICE cars can actually be too quick or too infrequent in some cases. It's common for driver fatigue to be a contributing factor in accidents since experts seem to recommend a rest stop every couple of hours. Yet ICE vehicles can drive on the highway for far longer than that and refill really quickly. And even for passengers, it's also not that great to be in the same position for hours on end, and you can't really get up for a moment to stretch your legs without stopping like you can on a train or a plane.

In my experience with ICE cars, I've had passengers get annoyed on long trips when i wanted to stop and rest my eyes because I felt a touch of drowsiness setting in, but in a car with a nearly 1000km highway range, I didn't really have a good excuse. Well, beyond not wanting to die. But with someone who has never driven that's hard for them to understand.

I think to some degree it's just a matter of accepting the new reality. People scrutinize the new and different and complain about the downsides while they just accept things they're accustomed at face value since it's just "the way things are".

It seems weird to describe the long range and quick fueling capabilities of an ICE vehicle as some sort of shortcoming. The situations you are discussing are poor decisions of drivers, not a problem with the vehicle. i.e. The safety of the passengers is the driver's responsibility, nobody else's, so it's up to the driver to decide when to rest.

I don't think EV charging will be an issue moving forward. Charging times will decrease with improved technologies, plus as you say, it will just become the new reality when nobody is driving ICE, so there will be nothing tangible to compare it to.

homebucket · #**2064** Posted **Apr 14, 2023, 1:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I'm with you. The old Porsche-esque lights were better. This is rather plain.

I’ve never been a fan of the bulbous lights actually. The lights on the the Model S look better to me. The Porsche esque lights you’re referring to were actually one of the defining features of the least attractive generation of Porsche headlights. They even received its own name — the fried egg headlight.

The duck bill snout is also gone which is a big improvement.

OldDartmouthMark · #**2065** Posted **Apr 14, 2023, 1:40 PM**

I wasn't a fan of the previous Model 3's front end styling either. IMHO the new headlights are fine, but the front fascia is just so bland and featureless. Like a worn bar of soap...

It seems to me, now that automakers no longer need to have a traditional opening to allow airflow to a radiator, that there are so many cool things that can be done with styling. The stylists have a blank canvas to work with, but Tesla gives us... that?

Nouvellecosse · #**2066** Posted **Apr 14, 2023, 2:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

It seems weird to describe the long range and quick fueling capabilities of an ICE vehicle as some sort of shortcoming. The situations you are discussing are poor decisions of drivers, not a problem with the vehicle. i.e. The safety of the passengers is the driver's responsibility, nobody else's, so it's up to the driver to decide when to rest.

I don't think there's anything weird about saying some technologies enable or even encourage unsafe behaviour. I think you'd have a strong counter argument if someone proposed artificially limiting the range of ICE vehicles for safety reasons in the way that infotainment systems lock people out of certain functions unless the car is in park. But not simply pointing out that we probably shouldn't mourn the absence of a function we normally shouldn't be using anyway.

It's also untrue that safety is solely the driver's responsibility. In our society we place a great deal of emphasis on ensuring that both the vehicles themselves and the road infrastructure is safe. Everything from designing the cars such that they can absorb impact, mandating certain safety features, limiting the legal speed on roadways, distracted driving laws, etc. So there's pretty ubiquitous acceptance that both manufacturers and governments also bear some responsibility.

homebucket · #**2067** Posted **Apr 14, 2023, 2:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I wasn't a fan of the previous Model 3's front end styling either. IMHO the new headlights are fine, but the front fascia is just so bland and featureless. Like a worn bar of soap...

It seems to me, now that automakers no longer need to have a traditional opening to allow airflow to a radiator, that there are so many cool things that can be done with styling. The stylists have a blank canvas to work with, but Tesla gives us... that?

Some of that may be intentional as a cost savings initiative. Design bumpers to be more simple with less parts to improve manufacturing efficiency.

Tvisforme · #**2068** Posted **Apr 14, 2023, 3:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

....Nice colour. It's good to see some non grey/silver, white, black vehicles on the road.

Absolutely, the sea of bland colours most vehicles default to is uninspiring, especially when you see examples of what can be done. Both of our contemporary Mazdas are Soul Red Metallic, and the newer Soul Red Crystal is even more gorgeous in my opinion. There are lovely deep greens and blues that also look great on the road.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

....But not simply pointing out that we probably shouldn't mourn the absence of a function we normally shouldn't be using anyway....

This "function", however, is one that manufacturers and owners alike are aiming to emulate with EVs. Every ad talks about how far you can go, optional batteries aim to provide ranges closer to or even longer than ICE vehicles, and owners often base their purchase on this factor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

It's also untrue that safety is solely the driver's responsibility....

In broad terms, yes, but if I'm not mistaken ODM was referring to the driver's choice as to whether to rest or not. If you feel that there are conditions making the trip unsafe, it's your responsibility to your passengers to address those issues.

Jaws · #**2069** Posted **Apr 14, 2023, 5:45 PM**

Taking delivery of a GV70 EV tomorrow. I had an easily accessible 20 A outlet available to plug in the EVSE so I'll see if 3.8 kW charge rate is enough for our purposes. It should be, and if it's not, Electrify Canada is building a station 2 minutes from my house in case I ever need a 240 kW top up. It's the stealth EV as it looks like the ICE version minus the exhaust tips.

WarrenC12 · #**2070** Posted **Apr 14, 2023, 6:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaws

Taking delivery of a GV70 EV tomorrow. I had an easily accessible 20 A outlet available to plug in the EVSE so I'll see if 3.8 kW charge rate is enough for our purposes. It should be, and if it's not, Electrify Canada is building a station 2 minutes from my house in case I ever need a 240 kW top up. It's the stealth EV as it looks like the ICE version minus the exhaust tips.

Nice, congrats. 20A should be perfect.

Nouvellecosse · #**2071** Posted **Apr 14, 2023, 6:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

This "function", however, is one that manufacturers and owners alike are aiming to emulate with EVs. Every ad talks about how far you can go, optional batteries aim to provide ranges closer to or even longer than ICE vehicles, and owners often base their purchase on this factor.

My comment was a "should" statement rather than an "is" statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

In broad terms, yes, but if I'm not mistaken ODM was referring to the driver's choice as to whether to rest or not. If you feel that there are conditions making the trip unsafe, it's your responsibility to your passengers to address those issues.

Well sure, but it was in response to me pointing out that technology influences people's behaviour including whether or not they make safe choices.

OldDartmouthMark · #**2072** Posted **Apr 15, 2023, 6:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I don't think there's anything weird about saying some technologies enable or even encourage unsafe behaviour. I think you'd have a strong counter argument if someone proposed artificially limiting the range of ICE vehicles for safety reasons in the way that infotainment systems lock people out of certain functions unless the car is in park. But not simply pointing out that we probably shouldn't mourn the absence of a function we normally shouldn't be using anyway.

Okay, that's not how I read it, but sure, if long wait times to charge a vehicle force people to take a break that they should be taking anyhow, then great.

FWIW, once battery/charging technology improves to the point that an EV can have 500 km of charge completed in less than 5 minutes, do you think that the government should step in and require software to be created to limit driving time to force drivers to take breaks? This could have essentially already been done on ICE vehicles, given how they are basically controlled by software currently. I'm wondering what kind of unintended consequences could result (like shutting down a vehicle in a dangerous/undesirable location, etc.).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

It's also untrue that safety is solely the driver's responsibility. In our society we place a great deal of emphasis on ensuring that both the vehicles themselves and the road infrastructure is safe. Everything from designing the cars such that they can absorb impact, mandating certain safety features, limiting the legal speed on roadways, distracted driving laws, etc. So there's pretty ubiquitous acceptance that both manufacturers and governments also bear some responsibility.

Sorry, I thought it was obvious that I was referring to control of the vehicle, i.e. all aspects of vehicle operation that are controlled by the driver. For literally decades government safety requirements (and automakers themselves) have caused safety features to be installed in cars, like seatbelts, airbags, the screen lockouts you refer to, etc.

I'll try to be more clear next time.

Truenorth00 · #**2073** Posted **Apr 15, 2023, 7:56 PM**

Not EV news exclusively. But consider the trends and implications of all these stats in 5-8 years.

• Video Link

logan5 · #**2074** Posted **Apr 15, 2023, 9:21 PM**

Micro vehicles like the Nimbus 1 make so much sense for city dwellers. It has swappable batteries that can be charged in your home using a regular wall outlet. I think if something like these get down to around 5 or 6 thousand dollars, it would be an affordable option for people who normally take transit.

• Video Link

OldDartmouthMark · #**2075** Posted **Apr 16, 2023, 2:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket

Some of that may be intentional as a cost savings initiative. Design bumpers to be more simple with less parts to improve manufacturing efficiency.

I get that, plus there's also a certain appeal to simplicity of design. It's actually not bad looking to my eye, just kind of boring (subjective opinion). To some, that's probably the optimal look.

Also, given that we are still in the relatively early days of EVs, people who want to make a statement will like it as well. Nothing says anti-ICE better than a front fascia that is completely sealed off with no radiator present. IMHO.

OldDartmouthMark · #**2076** Posted **Apr 16, 2023, 2:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

Absolutely, the sea of bland colours most vehicles default to is uninspiring, especially when you see examples of what can be done. Both of our contemporary Mazdas are Soul Red Metallic, and the newer Soul Red Crystal is even more gorgeous in my opinion. There are lovely deep greens and blues that also look great on the road.

IMHO, those Mazda reds are the nicest reds ever offered by an automaker. Great choice!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

This "function", however, is one that manufacturers and owners alike are aiming to emulate with EVs. Every ad talks about how far you can go, optional batteries aim to provide ranges closer to or even longer than ICE vehicles, and owners often base their purchase on this factor.

That's all I was getting at. Long charge times are not a 'feature' intended to induce rest stops, it's just a limitation of the technology as it exists today. As you mention, the momentum now is to create technology that allows the makers to reduce this charging time, as ICE refueling time is the target being strived for, that will make the vehicles more attractive to potential buyers who are not all-in on EVs yet.

People will want the convenience of quick charging times so that they can use their time for other things rather than waiting for a charge to occur. Like speeding and running red lights, the driver has to be responsible for his/her actions, which includes stopping for a rest/refresh/caffeine induction, or whatever, even when it may not be popular among the passengers who are asking "are we there yet?".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

In broad terms, yes, but if I'm not mistaken ODM was referring to the driver's choice as to whether to rest or not. If you feel that there are conditions making the trip unsafe, it's your responsibility to your passengers to address those issues.

That's all I was saying.

whatnext · #**2077** Posted **Apr 16, 2023, 7:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaws

Taking delivery of a GV70 EV tomorrow. I had an easily accessible 20 A outlet available to plug in the EVSE so I'll see if 3.8 kW charge rate is enough for our purposes. It should be, and if it's not, Electrify Canada is building a station 2 minutes from my house in case I ever need a 240 kW top up. It's the stealth EV as it looks like the ICE version minus the exhaust tips.

How long did you have to wait for it?

travis3000 · #**2078** Posted **Apr 16, 2023, 8:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket

How do y'all like the new Model 3 front end?

https://insideevs.com/news/662163/te...egedly-leaked/

This isn't the best picture to be fair. I will wait and see more high quality pics from different angles.

travis3000 · #**2079** Posted **Apr 16, 2023, 8:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Tesla's design often reminds me of a cheap shiny blouse you buy at Dollarama, Giant Tiger or Biway: it wants to give the impression it's high quality but deep down it really isn't.

Tesla is no Rolls Royce, but they are fast, reliable, have great tech, and above average range. I am very happy with mine. Given whats available right now in the EV department, hands down Id buy another one today.

vanatox · #**2080** Posted **Apr 16, 2023, 9:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by travis3000

Tesla is no Rolls Royce, but they are fast, reliable, have great tech, and above average range. I am very happy with mine. Given whats available right now in the EV department, hands down Id buy another one today.

Same for me. The product is not perfect but i am super satisfied. And no other brand doing EVs is perfect.