Winnipeg | Osborne Village & Corydon area

[borkborkbork]

So, as for the 'viability of the neighbourhood' question, here's the list of empty storefronts (as far as i'm aware):

Above Shoppers - vacant since construction
Top floor of Little Sister building - vacant since the summer
Former Meiji sushi - vacant since... summer? spring?
Former Music Trader - sign says leased
Former Desart - leased to Pho Hoang
The Toad - well, soon at least. For Lease sign up
Kaiso - says something about "closed for upgrading" - looks dead
Former Soul Spa - not sure what happened here. they kicked out the tenant but never managed to replace them?
Former Basils - empty as always
Former Jekyls - now part is Tokyo Smoke; at least one storefront seems to be under construction; the other seems to be for lease
Former Buccs - soon to be the Toad
Former Zoo - planned retail ground floor with condos above
Former Village Pet - for lease
Former hydroponics store - looks to have been leased

I think that's all the closed or vacant spaces from Mayfair to Confusion Corner. Did I miss any?

Stuff that's opened in the last year in OV includes Za Pizza, Gong Cha, Tablespace coworking, Tweed, Tokyo Smoke, Kaiso (see above), Small Mercies. Am I missing any?

Overall it feels like there's a lot of very tenuous businesses right now, and not a lot of foot traffic, and some very big holes to fill. So, a bit of a pivotal moment. If the old Zoo gets redeveloped, the Toad space gets leased, Pho Hoang opens, etc., it could be good, especially with more residential nearby. But if a few of those more marginal retailers close, if the Toad stays empty, if the Zoo redevelopment doesn't get going... well, Osborne could be really bad

[buzzg]

The problem with the village, and many of places you listed, is that the rents likely fair market value - but if they were for new or upgraded builds. Almost all those buildings are in terrible shape. Notice that the most recently renovated buildings are all full – the two PPP ones on the west side, and the L-shaped one at Stradbrook. Former Black Rabbit is just a monster of a space so likely could only be successful of a chain like Joey went in, or it was subdivided

Shoppers is probably the one exception – that unit is so high up there’s zero street presence, so it’s likely best suited for an office, but charging prominent retail prices... and the village is not a popular office area. Anytime Fitness was supposed to go in there but it fell through last minute due to some stipulation Shoppers put on it, not sure exactly what.

For all the "institutions" that have closed, new ones have opened. Turnover is natural. The type of hip business that used to go to the village is now in the exchange, and that's ok. Village is changing.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by buzzg

For all the "institutions" that have closed, new ones have opened. Turnover is natural. The type of hip business that used to go to the village is now in the exchange, and that's ok. Village is changing.

Or places like Wall Street, according to this new Free Press article:

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...565343502.html

The business owners they spoke with mentioned reasonable rents as a big draw, and they've got something special happening there now.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by esquire

Or places like Wall Street, according to this new Free Press article:

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/lo...565343502.html

The business owners they spoke with mentioned reasonable rents as a big draw, and they've got something special happening there now.

It's Winnipeg's Ossington Street.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Andy6

It's Winnipeg's Ossington Street.

Lol no. When's the last time you were there? Ossington is an extremely urban street with tons of retail and Restaurants and bars for blocks and blocks. Not an industrial neighborhood with 5 cool businesses on two blocks

[morty]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Lol no. When's the last time you were there? Ossington is an extremely urban street with tons of retail and Restaurants and bars for blocks and blocks. Not an industrial neighborhood with 5 cool businesses on two blocks

The biggest problem that would further hold back Wall Street's retail potential is the streetscape is abysmal. I live pretty close by but hate walking there. There's not really any way to solve it cheaply, and I can't see the city taking the initiative to make any improvements next time they reconstruct the street.

It's pretty much the exact same issue that Main, Provencher, and Marion/Goulet all face. Same with Osborne, it's a noticeably more pleasant walk after parking is allowed at 7 pm. Traffic is loud and the sidewalks don't make one feel welcome.

[buzzg]

There's not much point in investing much in streetscaping Wall when well over half the fontage is industrial buildings. Let's start with maintaining the decrepit streetscaping we have downtown (seriously will the city ever fix the light bases on Portage), or stopping the replacement of nice, painted fixtures in prominent areas with awful unpainted steel crap.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Lol no. When's the last time you were there? Ossington is an extremely urban street with tons of retail and Restaurants and bars for blocks and blocks. Not an industrial neighborhood with 5 cool businesses on two blocks

Ossington wasn't anything at all not that long ago. Zero cool businesses, let alone "extremely urban". There are a few parallels, allowing for the differing scale of the two cities, in two north-south streets way out to the west where no one ever went suddenly becoming fashionable because small creative retail and restaurants are priced out of previously cool areas.

[esquire]

Wall will never be a Corydon, Academy or McDermot like strip of charming storefronts. It will always have that light industrial charm. But that's fine, a space like that is a good incubator for businesses.

As I've mentioned before, it's a bit like Winnipeg's mini-Williamsburg... the old industrial parts before they went loft crazy over the last decade.

[wardlow]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Ossington wasn't anything at all not that long ago. Zero cool businesses, let alone "extremely urban". There are a few parallels, allowing for the differing scale of the two cities, in two north-south streets way out to the west where no one ever went suddenly becoming fashionable because small creative retail and restaurants are priced out of previously cool areas.

Yep, I think this could prove to be a fair comparison. Torontonian friends of mine, who have their fingers on the pulse of what and where is hip, say that 10-15 years ago Ossington (or anywhere that far west) basically didn't exist. I remember walking down the street in 2014 and it was funny to see old shabby Portuguese family-run tire shops next door to very posh-looking cocktail bars.

[LilZebra]

Mark my words, if Osborne Village continues on its path, and most of the retail space is empty, its only a matter of time before OV becomes more crime infested, more drug infested, and possibly a decrepit "no go" zone.

However, if care is taken, the retail portion of Osborne Village could see a renaissance of sorts, and could become the envy of Canada as it once did decades ago.

If this is so, then OV is at a crossroads.

Which way is it gonna turn?

[GreyGarden]

How would it become a "decrepid no-go zone"? Residential density continues to increase in the Village and its not like the rents are low in OV, especially in newer builds. An increase in people and money in the village should lead to good things. To me it feels like its in some sort of transition phase, from grungy/edgy to something more mainstream and palatable to the demographic currently moving into the village.

However, I do feel like the Osborne strip is really behind where it should be based on the population and disposable income in OV.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

Mark my words, if Osborne Village continues on its path, and most of the retail space is empty, its only a matter of time before OV becomes more crime infested, more drug infested, and possibly a decrepit "no go" zone.

However, if care is taken, the retail portion of Osborne Village could see a renaissance of sorts, and could become the envy of Canada as it once did decades ago.

If this is so, then OV is at a crossroads.

Which way is it gonna turn?

I don't necessarily agree that Osborne Village is right on the precipice, but I will say that these things can take a turn pretty quickly. Selkirk Avenue, for example, went from being a solid, pretty complete blue collar commercial street (and probably the best urban strip in the city outside of downtown) to dilapidated no go zone in barely 20 years over the 80s and 90s.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

How would it become a "decrepid no-go zone"? Residential density continues to increase in the Village and its not like the rents are low in OV, especially in newer builds. An increase in people and money in the village should lead to good things. To me it feels like its in some sort of transition phase, from grungy/edgy to something more mainstream and palatable to the demographic currently moving into the village.

OV continues to have serious social problems. Until what's left of the OV BIZ gets a handle on that church to force them to close down its "help". Until OV gets replacement retailers, I don't know who or what kind, then it will just continue to slide into the abyss retail, social, safety wise.

The 6-storey replacement for the Osborne Village Inn is a good start. But the rest of the retail space further north, as others have mentioned need some quick hard though out fixes.

However, I do feel like the Osborne strip is really behind where it should be based on the population and disposable income in OV.

Are you saying that Dollarama should move closer to River and Osborne?

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

Overall it feels like there's a lot of very tenuous businesses right now, and not a lot of foot traffic, and some very big holes to fill. So, a bit of a pivotal moment. If the old Zoo gets redeveloped, the Toad space gets leased, Pho Hoang opens, etc., it could be good, especially with more residential nearby. But if a few of those more marginal retailers close, if the Toad stays empty, if the Zoo redevelopment doesn't get going... well, Osborne could be really bad

Isn't it a little ironic that we're talking about how Osborne village is apparently in its death throes while in the same breath talking about the "explosion" on Wall Street where they have literally like 4 businesses? The village still has almost 20 restaurants, several clothing & retail shops, 2 grocery stores, MLCC, dispensaries, salons, gyms & tattoo shops..... Businesses in the village are "tenuous" but one of the 4 shops on Wall st is a kombucha taproom for pete's sake....

[GreyGarden]

Any central urban neighbourhood in Winnipeg is going to have homeless people out asking for money, thats just part of the territory.

The Osborne strip doesn't make me happy, but seeing whats being built in OV and the rents they are fetching make me think that the strip will eventually match that. Even rents in older buildings are decently high for Winnipeg standards - definitely higher than West Broadway. The Osborne strip has been a source of frustration for me more than a source of concern or worry. I can't imagine a run down "no-go zone" in the middle of a decently well-off, albeit young, growing neighbourhood. It's not like theres a nearby competing strip thats sucking everything away from Osborne. I have seen that scenario in other cities.

[buzzg]

Overall, there isn't really that much commercial vacancy in OV. As I mentioned, the buildings that have been upgraded are full, the ones that are in bad shape are not. It's fairly simple. We're likely seeing the beginning of a shift to Osborne becoming more like Whyte Ave (aka more national chains), and while that may not be as sexy and hip as many would like it (or it once was), it will bring stability and is a sign of health.

Because it's Winnipeg, it will always have local spots mixed in – it will never get to the point where only national chains can afford it. The side streets like Stradbrook and River are – and will continue to be – important to offering a little bit cheaper rents than being on the strip.

At some point soon you gotta think the owner of Circle K/A&W will realize they could be making way more from that land (and that building doesn't look long for this world), the city will sell its 10-car surface lot, etc.

For all that's closed, there have been quite a few new openings recently. And while things like gyms may not be as "cool" or "big-city" as having a Lululemon on the street, they're signs of a real neighbourhood.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by buzzg

For all that's closed, there have been quite a few new openings recently. And while things like gyms may not be as "cool" or "big-city" as having a Lululemon on the street, they're signs of a real neighbourhood.

When does Winnipeg get its Shinjuku, Tokyo's pedestrian-oriented shopping district?


I'm jealous of them.

Shinjuku (Japanese: 新宿区 Hepburn: Shinjuku-ku) is a special ward in Tokyo, Japan. It is a major commercial and administrative centre, housing the northern half of the busiest railway station in the world (Shinjuku Station) and the Tokyo Metropolitan Government Building, the administration centre for the government of Tokyo. As of 2015, the ward has an estimated population of 337,556, and a population density of 18,517 people per km². The total area is 18.23 km².[3] Since the end of the Second World War, Shinjuku has been a major secondary center of Tokyo (fukutoshin), rivaling to the original city center in Marunouchi and Ginza

OV's residential density is not that far off at 14,000 km^2.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by LilZebra

When does Winnipeg get its Shinjuku, Tokyo's pedestrian-oriented shopping district?

I'm jealous of them.

Once we get another 30,000,000 people to match Tokyo's metro population

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by esquire

I don't necessarily agree that Osborne Village is right on the precipice, but I will say that these things can take a turn pretty quickly. Selkirk Avenue, for example, went from being a solid, pretty complete blue collar commercial street (and probably the best urban strip in the city outside of downtown) to dilapidated no go zone in barely 20 years over the 80s and 90s.

You're comparing a place that has very impoverished residents to a place that has mostly middle-class residents and attracts panhandlers seeking cash from those residents. The demographics have nothing in common. Do we seriously think a few retail vacancies are going to turn the village into a ghetto? Why? It seems like maybe you guys are somehow under the impression the village relies on scores of people from the rest of Wpg flocking to the village to shop there. It doesn't. The village is mostly self-sufficient, it's driven by the residential density that is established (and continues to grow) there. I'd love to know how a few empty storefronts is going to lead to thousands and thousands of middle- to high-end residential units to suddenly empty out.... The residents will still be there, with or without American Apparel.