Metro Vancouver Road Infrastructure Discussion

[LeftCoaster]

This plan makes little to no sense to me.

The trip from Horseshoe Bay to Porteau is about 20 minutes, a few minutes over any crossing and at least 20 minutes back down to Gibsons is over 40 minutes, a longer journey than the sailing time. Sure you save the wait time at the terminal but you also add additional emissions of all those cars driving for another 40 minutes rather than one ferry.

Seems like a lot of financial risk for not much gained. Especially when you factor in the payoff time for the bridge, as it only serves a full time population of roughly 50,000 (granted there are a lot of seasonal visitors). If you ask me the money is better spent elsewhere.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Why not? Make it near the same price as the Ferry. There's no free alternative now.

It will be faster, more reliable, operate 24 hours per day and never book out. Sounds like a pretty big win if the price could be the similar to pay for construction.

Agreed and I would totally want it tolled. But it doesn't matter that there is no free alternate now. According to the policy on tolling

The only good thing is that it would provide access 24/7 versus now. Last ferry to mainland is what 9pm? But yea probably not worth it. Would be friggin sweet though

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

This plan makes little to no sense to me.

The trip from Horseshoe Bay to Porteau is about 20 minutes, a few minutes over any crossing and at least 20 minutes back down to Gibsons is over 40 minutes, a longer journey than the sailing time. Sure you save the wait time at the terminal but you also add additional emissions of all those cars driving for another 40 minutes rather than one ferry.

Seems like a lot of financial risk for not much gained. Especially when you factor in the payoff time for the bridge, as it only serves a full time population of roughly 50,000 (granted there are a lot of seasonal visitors). If you ask me the money is better spent elsewhere.

May I say I agree totally. The project is excessive, and the money it would take to build it could, for example, to a new Highway 99 Massey Tunnel
replacement, among countless other things.
Chosse your priority, but file this one under inactive .... please.

[xd_1771]

^ Maybe a two-lane highway then rather than a four-lane expressway-like road? Combined with something like a passenger-only ferry to connect with Vancouver and tolls with something like night discounts for trucks to manage traffic volumes. I was thinking it could be somewhat like the Confederation Bridge linking PEI.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

^ Maybe a two-lane highway then rather than a four-lane expressway-like road? Combined with something like a passenger-only ferry to connect with Vancouver and tolls with something like night discounts for trucks to manage traffic volumes. I was thinking it could be somewhat like the Confederation Bridge linking PEI.

If they went with a southern alignment, it would replace both Ferries and cut travel times down to about 20 minutes total from Gibsons to Horseshoe Bay.

[Pinion]

Imagine the West Van outcry, too. They wanted their section of Hwy 1 completely encased in a tunnel, there's no way they'd allow a connection anywhere.

[Whalleyboy]

So I know there has been a lot of talk about more cats eyes would be nice around here but the dutch have taken a new step to roads instead. glow in the dark roads.

I am very curious how well this might work around here in some locations like SFPR and many other spots

more can be read here
http://arstechnica.com/business/2014...n-netherlands/

[Genauso]

The federal government or the province will not be the ones to build any major connection to the sunshine coast.

Washington and Oregon states became American territory because profitability in eastern Canada was prioritized. BC only became a province after the Klondike goldfish began, the railway came too late, and then policies dictated industrialization stay in Ontario even though we had better access to supplies of power and steel/aluminum feedstocks (one big reason why Boeing was located in Washington state)

Lion's Gate bridge? Guinness family investment after overcoming objections by CPR and backed by federal government

Al-Can highway? USA built it during WWII for a safe land route to Alaska

BC Hydro? Necessary tool for Columbia River treaty negotiation to get more than Federal government was about to give away

It is rare to aim for growth and the future because we have a few dominant voices that are generally afraid of losing what they have. This region has always had to poor someone else first: Britain, CPR, Ontario. Even today the lumber sector which is big and was bigger had to sacrifice the Softwood lumber dispute win for Ottawa's use while we outright donated billions to the auto sector. Film and Tech provide some hope, but then residential real estate developers thwarted the whole HSR just to protect their subsidy in the PST.

Any other country in the world and the costal regions would have been opened up with a costal highway instead making do with 97 being only 300km and a couple mountain ranges away while we pretend there isn't enough land here.

Big moves here tend to arrive overdue. All we're left with is patience, until it is our turn to exploit a moment in time like the American prairies selling grain to Europe at market rates from the late 1800s until the end of the great war, or California with the last two decades of tech such IPOs. We have fresh air, fresh water, fresh food, energy, minerals, a strategic coast. Opportunity will seek those out. The time will come when a bridge to the sunshine coast is seen as only the beginning of a much larger project.

[SFUVancouver]

^ Well said.

I've got a nostalgic affinity for the BC Ferry system, but that's a product of my having used it with some frequency to visit Vancouver Island, and particularly the Sunshine Coast, while I was a child and young teenager in the 1990s. My more recent trips have been on mainline routes between Nanaimo and Tsawwassen and Vancouver Island, and it's been a pleasant but expensive experience. In my mind I think I classify taking the ferry as almost something like an expensive flight on which I can bring a car. I genuinely don't think of the ferry system as part of the highway system. I have no issue with there being a fair degree of subsidy, but I also think that it's unrealistic to expect a level of service and a cost of use that is, respectively, very good and very low. It's a vexing problem in many respects. A big part of what distinguishes our province is its coast and thousands of islands, but there's really no economical way to ever provide low-cost, high quality service to more than a handful of them. I'd love it if we as a province had a sovereign wealth fund from which we could distribute its largess to cherished BC endeavours (BC Parks Service, BC Ferries, back-country recreation, museums and galleries, public events, etc.). Such a fund could never hope to do anything more than knock a few points off of the cost of such services, but it could be the difference between maintaining the status quo and cuts. Norway got it right with its sovereign wealth fund. While that now how Norway is using its money, I think such a spending priority would help convince BC to commit to saving all of our energy revenues, particularly prior to LNG getting up and running. (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/iraqi-...orld-1.2604105)

[Klazu]

Low Level Road (North Vancouver) transformation update from today.





The upper road terracing is very tall and steep. Hopefully it will hold.


Last minute shot of the new railway overpass.


As a bonus a photo of the Powell Street upgrade in East Vancouver.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by connect2source

There's an especially bad one halfway between the 'hump' and the 4th / Fir exit on the south slope, it's quite severe and seems to have been installed in a very sloppy fashion. I drive over it every day and can only imagine it getting more severe over time.

Pic by me today (dropped the car off at the shop and walked back over the bridge):

[SFUVancouver]

Drove over the Granville St. Bridge for the first time in a while and you can sure feel the expansion-joint bumps. I was surprised it was as noticeable as it was. Could they not just send a crew out to grind it down?

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by Genauso

but then residential real estate developers thwarted the whole HSR just to protect their subsidy in the PST.

This is BS. The HST was good for the development industry. It was bad for the real estate marketing industry. It seemed like things were getting more expensive because the taxes were more visible to the buyer, but the worst thing was the uncertainty around the tax. Whether it would stay, transitional credit, etc. Not to mention it wasn't exactly introduced at the best time in the market. I'm sure developers would love to have it back though. I know the film industry would (and many many others).

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Pic by me today (dropped the car off at the shop and walked back over the bridge):

That's the one! Wow, it look terrible close up, totally uneven, don't understand the reasoning, I wonder if it will be resolved?

[Klazu]

At least southbound many of the joints used to be much sharper, but I remember someone mentioning there having been some work crew and they obviously did fix some of them. Few still remain fairly sharp and they should really fix them as well to save our tires.

In comparison the new joints on Burrard Bridge are smooth as silk.

[theKB]

Originally Posted by wrenegade

This is BS. The HST was good for the development industry. It was bad for the real estate marketing industry. It seemed like things were getting more expensive because the taxes were more visible to the buyer, but the worst thing was the uncertainty around the tax. Whether it would stay, transitional credit, etc. Not to mention it wasn't exactly introduced at the best time in the market. I'm sure developers would love to have it back though. I know the film industry would (and many many others).

ugh is this bad dream of the PST over yet? It would be nice if the libs made the PST a VAT style tax and got rid of this variable rate on certain things.

I have to say last night coming to the new cornwall/burrard intersection, the city obviously loved the way hornby is working with their double light setup at streets with turns that they thought they should scale it up here. The old setup was far more fluid than this new monstrosity.

/rant

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Klazu

At least southbound many of the joints used to be much sharper, but I remember someone mentioning there having been some work crew and they obviously did fix some of them. Few still remain fairly sharp and they should really fix them as well to save our tires.

In comparison the new joints on Burrard Bridge are smooth as silk.

I think the joints with teh teeth are the old joints.
The new ones have the rubber gaskets and a sizable gap.
When walking across Granville Bridge, the new joints with the gasket a gap made the most noise - with a klunk each time a car went over.

Of the ones with the teeth - the one I photographed (and mentioned by connect2source) was the worst. All the others I saw (walking on the west sidewalk) were level.

[spm2013]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I think the joints with teh teeth are the old joints.
The new ones have the rubber gaskets and a sizable gap.
When walking across Granville Bridge, the new joints with the gasket a gap made the most noise - with a klunk each time a car went over.

Of the ones with the teeth - the one I photographed (and mentioned by connect2source) was the worst. All the others I saw (walking on the west sidewalk) were level.

That thing existing in an Aug 2012 Google Maps image so it does look to be an old joint.

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by spm2013

That thing existing in an Aug 2012 Google Maps image so it does look to be an old joint.

Then it must have somehow shifted, I've driven over that spot daily since 1998 and it was never like that until the expansion joint work was done on the bridge. It's does, however, appear old in the pick by officedweller.

[officedweller]

I've driven over the bridge for years and only noticed that joint (while driving) within the past year too.