NEW YORK | World Trade Center Memorial & Transit Hub - Page 103

NYguy · #**2041** Posted **Jan 8, 2012, 10:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by KVNBKLYN

Metro-north only carries about 270,000 passengers per day TOTAL. Considering not all of them are headed to or from Midtown, how exactly do 700,000 commuters pass through Grand Central? Even the Grand Central subway station only has a ridership of 144,000 according to the MTA. Does the Post even bother with fact checking, or do they now rely solely on truthiness?

Whether you agree with the numbers or not, the basis of the article has a point. The use of Grand Central was just to make that point.

http://www.grandcentralterminal.com/...mographics.cfm

Quote:

When it comes to Grand Central, the facts tell why it is truly central:

-750,000 people pass through Grand Central daily and over 1,000,000 people during the holidays

-An average 7,500 people an hour pass the corner of 42nd Street and Vanderbilt Avenue, making it one of the busiest intersections in the city.

-21.6 million out-of-town tourists, with a mean income of $62,000, visit Grand Central each year.

-Grand Central is served by Metro-North commuter trains, 31 commuter and 15 city bus routes, 7 subway lines, buses to and from the area's three airports, and two million taxis a year.

Meanwhile, numbers for the PATH are down from pre 9/11 numbers, but that will change once construction is complete and the new office towers and retail are open. The PATH station will also connect to the new Fulton Transit Center, itself another Grand Central for Downtown.

http://www.panynj.gov/wtcprogress/pdf/draft_scope.pdf

Quote:

Prior to the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the PATH system consisted of four inter-urban rapid transit lines connecting the north New Jersey cities of Newark, Hoboken, and Jersey City with the business, residential, shopping, and cultural districts of Manhattan. A
daily ridership of 67,000 commuters passed through the WTC PATH Terminal alone.

KVNBKLYN · #**2042** Posted **Jan 8, 2012, 10:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy

Whether you agree with the numbers or not, the basis of the article has a point. The use of Grand Central was just to make that point.

You're comparing apples and oranges. The PATH station numbers are for riders of PATH trains only. The GCT numbers you quote are for people who "pass through" GCT, meaning tourists wandering through to take a photo, people who work nearby getting lunch, plus people who actually ride the trains there. If you want to compare apples to apples, you could include all those who passed through the old WTC mall (or who will pass through the new one) with the PATH station riders to a get a better idea of the relative importance of the two stations.

And Cuozzo's article was based on a flawed apples to oranges comparison. It's bad journalism as usual.

NYguy · #**2043** Posted **Jan 9, 2012, 6:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by KVNBKLYN

You're comparing apples and oranges. The PATH station numbers are for riders of PATH trains only. The GCT numbers you quote are for people who "pass through" GCT, meaning tourists wandering through to take a photo, people who work nearby getting lunch, plus people who actually ride the trains there. If you want to compare apples to apples, you could include all those who passed through the old WTC mall (or who will pass through the new one) with the PATH station riders to a get a better idea of the relative importance of the two stations.

And Cuozzo's article was based on a flawed apples to oranges comparison. It's bad journalism as usual.

You can compare it how you want, it would still be the same. The fact is, Grand Central and Penn Station, even the Port Authority serves more than the PATH station does. Grand Central is fine, marvelous even. But I'll be damned if they can't get a rebuilt Penn Station or Port Authority Bus terminal for New York. (We can't even get the memorial complete).

And your argument changes nothing, even if I were to agree with you. The fact is, the station is an extremely, overpriced luxury that the PA doesn't have. To add insult, they wanted to attribute redevelopment at the WTC site to the recent toll hikes. A little like spending all of your money on unneccessary luxury items, then complaining becaues you can't pay your bills. Further, complaining that someone mentions it is a little like complaing when someone calls an apple "red".

I used to use that station daily, and it was just fine then. The excess of Calatrava's design is just that. We all know that the station is an unneccessarily expensive vanity project. We've accepted it. We still like it. But that doesn't mean we can't call it what it is.

THE BIG APPLE · #**2044** Posted **Jan 9, 2012, 10:14 PM**

Bottom Line

GCT has trains coming in and out of it (excluding MTA trains) that go accross the U.S.

PATH trains only go to NJ and back to Manhattan.

Don098 · #**2045** Posted **Jan 9, 2012, 10:28 PM**

Can someone provide the funding breakdown of the transportation hub? I mean, is it a real possibility that a change in political leadership or pressure could permanently halt construction and force a redesign? How is the Port Authority funded?

theWatusi · #**2046** Posted **Jan 10, 2012, 2:46 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE BIG APPLE

Bottom Line

GCT has trains coming in and out of it (excluding MTA trains) that go accross the U.S.

No it doesn't

STR · #**2047** Posted **Jan 10, 2012, 2:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don098

How is the Port Authority funded?

In no particular order (though the last item is smaller than the other two).
Landing fees at the area airports.
Bridge and tunnel tolls.
Misc. real estate transactions (retail at PA Bus Terminal, WTC land rent from Silverstein).

THE BIG APPLE · #**2048** Posted **Jan 10, 2012, 3:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by theWatusi

No it doesn't

I think I misinterpreted what I said. I meant to say USED to. GCT USED to have Amtrak which went ALL around the U.S. Now it serves Metro-North which serves most of New York State, NJ, Connecticut, etc. My bad. So the traffic at GCT isn't what it used to be, but it's still busy as hell.

Don098 · #**2049** Posted **Jan 12, 2012, 6:13 PM**

Has the temporary railroad bridge been removed yet? I can't tell from any of the cams. If not, is that the last remaining temporary support for the No. 1 subway?

J. Will · #**2050** Posted **Jan 12, 2012, 11:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE BIG APPLE

I think I misinterpreted what I said. I meant to say USED to. GCT USED to have Amtrak which went ALL around the U.S. Now it serves Metro-North which serves most of New York State, NJ, Connecticut, etc. My bad. So the traffic at GCT isn't what it used to be, but it's still busy as hell.

Metro North does not serve "most" of New York State. It serves a tiny fraction of New York State.

THE BIG APPLE · #**2051** Posted **Jan 12, 2012, 11:21 PM**

Well it does go all the way to Poughkeepsie, NY. It's not alot, but it's not that little either. Also covers Port Jervis, and Wassaic. It covers MOST of the lower region and even beyond of NYS. From there you could switch to Amtrak (or take it from Penn Station) or Greyhound or what every the hell you want to switch to.

Otie · #**2052** Posted **Jan 13, 2012, 5:32 AM**

asharmaearth411 · #**2053** Posted **Jan 13, 2012, 7:26 PM**

Embark this Special '3' Part Series and Follow the Recent Development and Progress at the New World Trade Center Site!

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0QYuOm4_Is" target="_blank">Video Link

Significant Progress is being made at the WTC site everyday! Exclusive (Late December, 2011 - Early January, 2012 Update) Special.

Happy New Year Everybody! - Cheers!
- ASharmaEarth411HD

2-TOWERS · #**2054** Posted **Jan 15, 2012, 3:11 PM**

the 4 steel bars bracing the the corners , will they be there as the station is going up.....

Highriseologist · #**2055** Posted **Jan 15, 2012, 8:49 PM**

The braces are removed when the next floor, which is structural steel, is installed.

Otie · #**2056** Posted **Jan 17, 2012, 3:54 PM**

Joe Woolhead's blog.

KVNBKLYN · #**2057** Posted **Jan 18, 2012, 3:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy

And your argument changes nothing, even if I were to agree with you. The fact is, the station is an extremely, overpriced luxury that the PA doesn't have.

You completely miss the point of my argument. What is called the WTC Path Station is in fact a revenue generating MALL with several subway stations attached. Grand Central is a train station with a small mall attached. If you do not recognize this, then you cannot make a meaningful judgement on whether the amount of money being spent on the Calatrava design is worth it or not.