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  #2021  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2018, 10:47 PM
Stevenson Stevenson is offline
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Belleville is dead last in the entire AHL. That is not normally a sign of a deep prospect pool. Could you see any of the guys you mentioned on the top line of a good team?
Their top prospects are in junior and Sweden and they will be getting an elite player at this years draft
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  #2022  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2018, 11:46 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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No they don’t, they have Matt Duchene who has been excellent in a terrible year for the team. The team has a really solid core of stone karlsson duchene Hoffman Chabot , Logan brown,Colin white etc
Matt Duchene is doing well now, but his transition from Colorado was not smooth and to some degree, that led to a long losing streak back in November and December that lost the season. Another reason to hope for a better year next year but will EK be here?

I hope they focus on replacing the older players who clearly have lost a step. I was scared when I heard Hoffman (with his speed and special scoring touch), Pageau (a heart and soul player) and EK (a world class talent) up for trade.

In that respect, the Sens made a big mistake by bringing in older players who were assumed to be good checkers and would support the 1-3-1 strategy. But some were nearing the end of their careers or did not have the skill to enable the Sens to score. Checking skills are not enough in the NHL of 2018.
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  #2023  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2018, 3:35 AM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Stone and Duchene are clearly first line players, and Chabot and Karlsson top 2 defencemen.
On a good team?

Could you imagine Duchene taking the top line centre job on any of the top teams in the league? He has 17 goals.
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  #2024  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2018, 3:44 AM
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Although I agree that the Sens can't do a full rebuild while Karlsson is on the team(nor that Karlsson would be on board with that), if you look at the teams that have done a full rebuild in the last dozen years, none of them have had a player that was the same caliber as Karlsson.

To me, getting rid of Karlsson is pretty much the same thing as if the Oilers got rid of McDavid after this season to do a full rebuild. You just don't do it, it's a bad idea on every level.

When the Blues traded Pronger, they were a garbage team for 6 seasons before becoming a decent team again(and I would say that they still haven't recovered from that move). That is what I see for the Sens(or worse) if they trade Karlsson.

Teams have retooled, surrounding their stars with good talent, and have come out with good to great results(usually it involved drafting in the top-3 and getting a can't miss prospect), there's no reason why the Sens can't do it as well.
Edmonton seems to get high draft picks no matter how many good players they have

But the big difference is McJesus will be 29 at the end of his 8 year contract. Karlsson will be 37. He has probably already peaked and will decline throughout his contract.
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  #2025  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2018, 3:45 AM
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On a good team?

Could you imagine Duchene taking the top line centre job on any of the top teams in the league? He has 17 goals.
I would say that ideally he is a 1A, but he is generally regarded as a 30-goal scorer, and should be close to a point a game player. They do need another centre to contend, but I see Brown and White as legitimate options within a year or two.
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  #2026  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2018, 4:37 AM
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On a good team?

Could you imagine Duchene taking the top line centre job on any of the top teams in the league? He has 17 goals.
He’s a playmaker. Your ability as a number one centre isn’t determined by how many goals you get. You could be a big goal scorer or a big passer as a #1. Duchene has been excellent.
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  #2027  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2018, 4:40 AM
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But the big difference is McJesus will be 29 at the end of his 8 year contract. Karlsson will be 37. He has probably already peaked and will decline throughout his contract.
But unlike forwards, good defencemen are like good wine and cheese, they get better with age (until they get mouldy. 😉).
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  #2028  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2018, 12:06 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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He’s a playmaker. Your ability as a number one centre isn’t determined by how many goals you get. You could be a big goal scorer or a big passer as a #1. Duchene has been excellent.
And how many good teams have a playmaker who scores 20-30 goals as their #1 centre? Playmaking specialists are certainly useful, but on good teams they are lower down the list or on a wing.
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  #2029  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2018, 12:12 PM
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But unlike forwards, good defencemen are like good wine and cheese, they get better with age (until they get mouldy. 😉).
It is certainly true that D-men take longer to develop, but few D-men are dominant into their 30s anymore. He is not a Weber/Chara kind of player who takes booming slapshots from the point. He is very dependent on agility which is among the first traits to go.
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  #2030  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2018, 1:16 PM
Stevenson Stevenson is offline
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And how many good teams have a playmaker who scores 20-30 goals as their #1 centre? Playmaking specialists are certainly useful, but on good teams they are lower down the list or on a wing.
Yeah I don’t think you understand the role of a centre so I’m not gonna bother debating. Especially on this kind of forum...
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  #2031  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2018, 1:17 PM
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It is certainly true that D-men take longer to develop, but few D-men are dominant into their 30s anymore. He is not a Weber/Chara kind of player who takes booming slapshots from the point. He is very dependent on agility which is among the first traits to go.
Weber types break down at an earlier age because of their physical style of play.
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  #2032  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2018, 1:39 PM
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Yeah I don’t think you understand the role of a centre so I’m not gonna bother debating. Especially on this kind of forum...
Yeah, you'll get more agreement calling into 1200.
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  #2033  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2018, 2:02 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
And how many good teams have a playmaker who scores 20-30 goals as their #1 centre? Playmaking specialists are certainly useful, but on good teams they are lower down the list or on a wing.
Sorry, can't help myself on this one. Last year's stats for the top number one centres in the league:

Crosby 44G 45A (the 44G was his highest in 8 years)
McDavid - 30G 70A
Backstrom - 23G 63A
Scheiffle - 32G 50A
Seguin - 26G 46A
Pavelski - 29G 39A
Johansen - 14G 47A
Toews - 21G 37A
Bergeron - 21G 32A
Tavares - 28G 38A

It's pretty clear that number one centres usually get between 20 and 30 goals.
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  #2034  
Old Posted Mar 2, 2018, 3:13 PM
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The primary purpose of a center is to distribute the puck to scoring wingers.

In today's NHL, a 20-30 goal achievement is the new 30-40 from years back. Goal production a la Crosby/Ovechkin is not typical.

Everyone who follows hockey knows these things.
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  #2035  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2018, 2:40 PM
AndyMEng AndyMEng is offline
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Sorry to be a wet blanket, but can we discuss hockey stylings over on the Senator's forum? What's the news regarding Lebreton lately?
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  #2036  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2018, 4:56 PM
Dr.Z Dr.Z is offline
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Sorry to be a wet blanket, but can we discuss hockey stylings over on the Senator's forum? What's the news regarding Lebreton lately?
Welcome to Canada. All 4-year threads eventually find their way to a discussion on hockey.
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  #2037  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2018, 4:19 PM
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Garrioch: Work to be done before Senators move to LeBreton

Bruce Garrioch
Post Media
April 11, 2018


Eugene Melnyk and Pierre Dorion started and finished their day Wednesday with two more town hall talks with season ticket holders.

And, at the end of the session Wednesday morning, the Ottawa Senators owner indicated he’d like to do this two or three times a year to get the club’s message directly to the most important stakeholders in the team.

The reviews on social media on these town halls are mixed, but I’m not going to sit here and pretend to know how they went because I didn’t attend any of the three sessions and only the first one Tuesday night at the Canadian Tire Centre was open to one person from each media outlet.

You have to give the Senators credit for giving people access because that doesn’t happen in every NHL market, but it would have been nice to be able to see one these in person or online instead of having to rely on second-hand accounts or audio online to find out what was said.

Yes, there was focus on the future of captain Erik Karlsson, but the Senators repeated they’re going to make him an offer on July 1 and they’re going to do everything in their power to keep him. That question is going to linger until the summertime as much as people want answers.

Various people shared comments on social media, including audio posted by Mitch Brulé on Twitter. Perhaps the most interesting topic was LeBreton Flats and the future for the new downtown arena because the Senators would like have shovels in the ground midway through 2019.

The RendezVous LeBreton Group and National Capital Commission reached an agreement in principle in January to finalize a deal to redevelop the land 10 minutes west of downtown, and the two sides are now working on finalizing that deal.

Speaking at the Ottawa Conference and Events Centre, Melnyk indicated the deal isn’t close, but let’s face it negotiations are still ongoing.

“It’s a very difficult, much more than I thought, process,” Melnyk said. “It’s not the NCC that’s holding it up. They’ve actually been very, very good throughout this whole process. The problems we’re finding there are much more complicated than I can describe to you.

“It’s a huge project with a tremendous risk … I’m a risk-taker, but this one is really rolling the dice, and if we’re wrong, we’re really bad wrong.”

Melnyk said it’s not easy to just leave Canadian Tire Centre, especially with federal government offices located downtown, and that’s partially because a Treasury Board policy precludes employees from receiving gifts of any type from suppliers.

“Are we leaving Kanata, where we’ve stabilized, we’re OK (and) are we moving to be closer to the very people that cannot get tickets or won’t buy tickets? Our challenge is to allow the complimentary tickets to get to people. We don’t have a big corporate base in Ottawa. We have a big employer who has now forbidden their employees to get a couple of tickets to a game.

“If you take a look at any other market, and I mean any other market, they have a corporate base and they give out tickets to their clients, friends, family and employees. You can’t do that here in Ottawa. That has to change here and I’d love to see it change.”

Melnyk said he will continue to try to get the LeBreton deal across the finish line.

“We continue to trudge along. It’s going to take time At one point, we’re going to decide we’re done, we’re going to stay in Kanata, we have a fan base there, and we have fan base here and I know the difficulty of going out there,” Melnyk added.

Later, Melnyk wondered aloud whether the city of Ottawa can support all the building that will take place and also noted one of his partners — without naming names — is developing land nearby, so he’s going over an impact study he had done to see what effect those will have.

Trinity Developments, owned by John Ruddy, who is a partner in RendezVous LeBreton, is working on a massive project near the City Centre.

“I’m now hesitating back and saying, ‘You can’t do all this development there and have LeBreton’ … I’m not in that business. I’m into the hockey business and it’s just one of my businesses,” said Melnyk. “That’s why I’m hedging on LeBreton … just hedging.

“If it doesn’t work out our way I don’t want to put the hockey business at risk over a development.”

Don’t get too caught up in LeBreton project going off the rails because Melnyk is in the middle of a long, difficult negotiation to finalize the deal and his best bet is not to show too much excitement about the project until it’s closer to becoming a reality.

The focus for the next few months is going to be on what’s happening off the ice with the hockey team as far as the roster goes. We’ll get some of those answers Thursday morning when Dorion holds his season wrap-up with the media at the rink.

There will be no shortage of questions.
http://ottawasun.com/sports/hockey/n...ve-to-lebreton

I know the media keeps trying to explain these LeBreton comments away by saying it's a negotiation tactic, but it scares the hell out of me. Though Melnyk attacking one of his partners (possibly two, with Windmill building Zibi) is pretty terrible, he has a point. The market is saturated. But his comments about abandoning the Kanata fan-base to get closer to people who can't buy tickets is ridiculous (unless the Kanata high-tech companies represent a big percentage of the season ticket base).
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  #2038  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2018, 6:18 PM
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I take everything Melnyk says with a grain of salt, but I will agree with him that certain segments of the Lebreton plan might not make sense, at least right now (i.e. condos). I think part of the reason negotiations are taking a bit longer then expected is that RendezVous is having trouble making the numbers work in some areas and are trying to predict how viable certain retail and condos will be when Lebreton will be built out.

Really hoping they don't half ass anything here. Either way, will be interesting to see if anything develops over the summer. Could be quiet given the issues with the hockey side of things.
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  #2039  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2018, 6:35 PM
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The key is to have the high rise buildings on Lebreton be flexible in use. The balance of condo vs rental vs office will have to be able to change to match changes in demand.

Klipfolio is a possible anchor tenant (they'll be needing a a million+ sq ft HQ sooner or later and Lebreton is best suited).
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  #2040  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2018, 8:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
The key is to have the high rise buildings on Lebreton be flexible in use. The balance of condo vs rental vs office will have to be able to change to match changes in demand.

Klipfolio is a possible anchor tenant (they'll be needing a a million+ sq ft HQ sooner or later and Lebreton is best suited).
I had the same idea. Surely one or two big high tech companies (or rapidly expanding tech companies) will want to be part of LeBreton. Also, RVL should have no trouble finding a luxury hotelier to lease the signature hotel planned right next door to the arena (NHL teams and reporters need a place to sleep).

If Pheonix is fixed by the time they start selling and building LeBreton, I could see the condo market pick up (if the Conservatives don't get elected with a majority government in 2019).
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