[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[hfxtradesman]

Good news, THIS PROJECT WILL BE BUILT. Paper work is being signed as we speek by our great leaders Project will start in the spring, and there will still be public input on the look of the building. Good news for Halifax and the rest of the N.S.:

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by hfxtradesman

Good news, THIS PROJECT WILL BE BUILT. Paper work is being signed as we speek by our great leaders Project will start in the spring, and there will still be public input on the look of the building. Good news for Halifax and the rest of the N.S.:

So does this mean the federal government is in? I havnt heard anything on this since council approved it. If this is the case, fantastic news!

[worldlyhaligonian]

Great news!

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by hfxtradesman

Good news, THIS PROJECT WILL BE BUILT. Paper work is being signed as we speek by our great leaders Project will start in the spring, and there will still be public input on the look of the building. Good news for Halifax and the rest of the N.S.:

You have been right so far. This will be a major scoop for you hfxtradesman. When will it hit the news?

[hfxtradesman]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

You have been right so far. This will be a major scoop for you hfxtradesman. When will it hit the news?

Everything should be done by the next public input, give or take.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by hfxtradesman

Everything should be done by the next public input, give or take.

Do you mean the next HRM council meeting?

[Keety]

Where exactly is the convention centre going to be built?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Keety

Where exactly is the convention centre going to be built?

At this location - http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rf6...t%20halifax%20 .

The two blocks between Argyle Street, Market Street, Sackville Street and Prince Street. Grafton Steet will be kept as a pedestrian street.

[Dartboy]

I am definitely not on board with this new CC yet as they have not proved a compelling case to me. Then again the HRM and the FEDS are yet to sign off. I am now reading about the financial situations at the HRM level and that the feds will not fund some sydney work.

I would also note I find some very informative posters here. However, there are some build it and we willw orry about the costs later here as well. I find these 'LETS BUILD EVRYTHING" as bad as the phil paceys " Im against everything".

I am very concerned about the worst case scenario with this CC. This is a hotel business complex with a CC. This is not a CC. This is not a landmark of any sort. but to my conern. WHAT IF? what if the convention business stalls or declines? What if the projections are not met? What if the contractor goes under? Based on his current portfolio of projects this is HUGE for him? What if its a white elephant.

I like to think of tax investments on the same basis as other investments. IS this risk really worth the potential reward. At this point Its still a NO for me but am patiently waiting as I am more warm to the project that I was initially. MY preference is to step back to the evaulation process.

That will not happen but lets see what they hammer out for a deal

[fenwick16]

I don't think anyone wants to build everything (compared to threads in other areas of Canada, this one is quite conservation - example in wanting an economical stadium versus something elaborate). Even the convention centre is not elaborate as compared to others in Canada.

Rank Inc. is taking the financial risk in building the Nova Centre complex (including the convention centre) and is responsible for cost over-runs. This is part of the logic behind leasing instead of owning. The lease is a fixed annual dollar amount for 25 years with an option to extend the lease for up to 35 years. Factoring in inflation, in 10 years time the lease will be much easier to finance than it is now and there are no payments until 2015 so it won't be added to the HRM books in the meantime. I have now come to like the idea of leasing versus the HRM/province buying the convention centre.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I don't think anyone wants to build everything (compared to threads in other areas of Canada, this one is quite conservation - example in wanting an economical stadium versus something elaborate). Even the convention centre is not elaborate as compared to others in Canada.

Rank Inc. is taking the financial risk in building the Nova Centre complex (including the convention centre) and is responsible for cost over-runs. This is part of the logic behind leasing instead of owning. The lease is a fixed annual dollar amount for 25 years with an option to extend the lease for up to 35 years. Factoring in inflation, in 10 years time the lease will be much easier to finance than it is now and there are no payments until 2015 so it won't be added to the HRM books in the meantime. I have now come to like the idea of leasing versus the HRM/province buying the convention centre.

The thing that seems to be missed in all this is the operating defict. Currently HRM risk position with regards to operating defict is tied to CPI. The new proposal its whatever it is (shared between province and HRM).

This should be a concern for all as if the centre does not meet the targets quoted or if there is something that causes conventions in general to decline the city could be hit with costs that are hard to budget.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I don't think anybody in favour of this can be classified as "build anything". Everyone I have seen come out in support of this actually has a more balanced POV on development in Halifax from reading their posts in other forums. In fact, I would say the majority of us who want to see this built aren't in favour of all the low-quality, squat developments that have been the result of obstructionsim.

The financial arguments from opponents have soiled everything and the debate is just stupid at this point.

I can't forsee this being financial issue for Halifax/NS given how similar amounts of funding are dispersed to projects all the time

The fact that we built a 40 million 4 pad area which does nothing to act as a venue for any sort of trade/international event speaks volumes as to how funds are allocated for different projects and the perceptions of opponents.

The library is a similar story. Even if this development isn't financially beneficial, it has alot to do with regional pride and having a place to represent us. The current facility is substandard... I hope everybody agrees with this.

Its pretty clear to me that if this was anything but this project, there wouldn't be all this debate.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Dartboy

I am definitely not on board with this new CC yet as they have not proved a compelling case to me. Then again the HRM and the FEDS are yet to sign off. I am now reading about the financial situations at the HRM level and that the feds will not fund some sydney work.

I would also note I find some very informative posters here. However, there are some build it and we willw orry about the costs later here as well. I find these 'LETS BUILD EVRYTHING" as bad as the phil paceys " Im against everything".

I am very concerned about the worst case scenario with this CC. This is a hotel business complex with a CC. This is not a CC. This is not a landmark of any sort. but to my conern. WHAT IF? what if the convention business stalls or declines? What if the projections are not met? What if the contractor goes under? Based on his current portfolio of projects this is HUGE for him? What if its a white elephant.

I like to think of tax investments on the same basis as other investments. IS this risk really worth the potential reward. At this point Its still a NO for me but am patiently waiting as I am more warm to the project that I was initially. MY preference is to step back to the evaulation process.

That will not happen but lets see what they hammer out for a deal

How is it not a landmark? Look at Halifax's resume of tall buildings... I think this development will be up there with Purdy's, 1801, and the Trillium.

[DigitalNinja]

I agree, this building will be iconic in Halifax and may lead to more buildings being built in a similar style to this one to bring a new age of architecture to Halifax.

Also I think that by saying you aren't on board with this is a little silly. The final decision is up to council and our respective governments. If you are or not on board, they have the final say in anything and what anyone posts on here isn't going to matter in the slightest.

I will admit I do support a lot of projects, but they are projects which will be beneficial in a big way, Trillium, Halkirk, International place... And so on, although some of us seem to support every development, the fact is that development is needed downtown and if something like Scotia Square was proposed now, I can assure you that none of us would be in support of it or want to see it go up.

[halifaxboyns]

I'd also have to agree, I think this building will be a landmark building and considering the changes being made - I'm inclined to believe that for the most part the design is still flexible. I suspect some of the interior design may change and the towers may be tweaked.

Personally; while I disagree with STV and the HT - my 'olive branch' to them would be to pinch the towers as they get taller and make them slightly narrower to reduce the boxed in effect on the view that is protected. A small change that might give up some rooms/space but you can still sell it as something to settle that group down.

Either way; I think the fact is that both sides will agree to disagree. But I'd rather see this built that some crater in downtown.

[fenwick16]

The negotiations between the province and HRM have been very quiet - I thought that the media would be all over the story. If they have already reached an agreement, could it be that they are purposely keeping it quiet (probably a good strategy since the opposing wing nuts seem to be on the offensive.)

QUESTION: Once an agreement is reached between the HRM and province, is it necessary for the agreement to be approved by council or can the province proceed directly to negotiations with the federal government? Is any other vote on the convention centre required by council (I hope not - I wish they would just get on with it).

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

The negotiations between the province and HRM have been very quiet - I thought that the media would be all over the story. If they have already reached an agreement, could it be that they are purposely keeping it quiet (probably a good strategy since the opposing wing nuts seem to be on the offensive.)

QUESTION: Once an agreement is reached between the HRM and province, is it necessary for the agreement to be approved by council or can the province proceed directly to negotiations with the federal government? Is any other vote on the convention centre required by council (I hope not - I wish they would just get on with it).

I gather it would depend on what the conditions that council requested as part of their "ask".

[sdm]

since no one hasn't posted this article,

Centre critics fear hotel room glut
Halifax is already struggling to fill beds, says citizens group
By BRUCE ERSKINE Business Reporter
Wed, Nov 24 - 4:53 AM

A 400-room hotel proposed as part of the planned Halifax convention centre might overload the local market, says Guido Kerpel, general manager of the Westin Nova Scotian Hotel in Halifax.

"Two hundred to 300 would be more palatable," he said in an interview Tuesday.

The development plan for the former Halifax Herald Ltd. lands in downtown Halifax by Rank Inc. includes a two-level underground convention centre, an 18-storey hotel, a 14-storey officer tower and retail space.

The Coalition to Save the View, a citizens group that argues the development is a waste of taxpayer money and will block harbour views from Citadel Hill, said the planned hotel will hurt existing hotel business in Halifax.

"Even using the most optimistic trade centre projections for delegated attendance, there will still be tens of thousands of unsold hotel rooms," said coalition member Beverly Miller in an interview Tuesday.

The coalition said there are about 6,200 hotel rooms in the city now, with an average occupancy rate of 60 per cent, ranging from a high of 70-85 per cent in August and September and dropping to 40-50 per cent from December to February.

Jeff Ransome, general manager of the Marriott Halifax Harbourfront Hotel and president of the Hotel Association of Nova Scotia, didn’t dispute the coalition’s numbers. But he said the jury is still out on the ideal number of hotel rooms for the convention centre development, which the hotel association supports as good for the city and the province.

"We need a discussion on the right number of rooms to support the convention centre and not harm the hotel industry," he said. "I don’t know what that number is."

Kerpel said the convention business is up and down and he worried that empty rooms at the convention centre hotel would be discounted and drive average room prices in the city down.

"The rooms will sit in inventory and have to be sold," he said.

Discount travel company Hotwire.com reported earlier this week that Halifax hotel rates dropped eight per cent in November compared to November 2009, the highest rate drop among five Canadian cities surveyed.

Coalition member Phil Pacey, chairman of the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia’s Halifax Regional Municipality committee, said Tuesday that a municipality facing a $13.9 million budget shortfall shouldn’t spend $7 million a year to subsidize the convention centre development.

The trust also opposes the development because the two towers that will only be built with public funding would block harbour views from the roadway on Citadel Hill.

Rank has said the hotel would be scaled back to a 100-room boutique facility and the financial tower won’t be built if the development doesn’t proceed as planned with government funding.

( berskine@herald.ca)

[fenwick16]

I read it. The opinion below by Jeff Ransome is the one that counts not the opinion of Phil Pacey who has no real interest in the hotel industry. These tactics just annoy me because it is clearly manipulation by Phil Pacey and his cohorts.

Jeff Ransome, general manager of the Marriott Halifax Harbourfront Hotel and president of the Hotel Association of Nova Scotia, didn’t dispute the coalition’s numbers. But he said the jury is still out on the ideal number of hotel rooms for the convention centre development, which the hotel association supports as good for the city and the province.

[someone123]

Rank isn't out to build an ideal number of hotel rooms. They're out to build as many as they think will be profitable. It's a competitive industry.

I'm also not sure that, even from an industry-wide perspective, a smaller hotel is better. The bigger ones tend to have more amenities and market more. It's easy to imagine them bringing in more visitors than the smaller hotels. Actually, 2 years ago this was the complaint from hotel owners - stop building so many small hotels since Halifax needs a bigger one. Now the Herald is finding people to complain about a larger hotel. The fact is that they can always find somebody to complain in Halifax.

In my opinion this is a case of classic Nova Scotian small town anti-business attitude and in the long run it's hurtful since it causes the province to lose out to more competitive areas. We'll keep our old, run-down, expensive hotels open until nobody bothers to come to NS and then they'll close down anyway... then everybody will shrug their shoulders and say that it's NS and it was bound to happen.

The trust also opposes the development because the two towers that will only be built with public funding would block harbour views from the roadway on Citadel Hill.

This is really misleading language.