Roads/Bridges projects/issues

[phil235]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Transit boss against temporarily reducing vehicle lanes in Ottawa

Joanne Laucius, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: Jul 14, 2020 • Last Updated 17 hours ago • 2 minute read

The city’s general manager of Transportation Services, John Manconi, has recommended against reallocating more space on roadways for pedestrians and cyclists on a temporary city-wide basis.

...

“Reducing lanes in these areas on a temporary basis would increase existing congestion and affect the movement of traffic on these streets,” said the memo.

“This would also impact OC Transpo, which as part of the transit recovery plan, has returned to full summer service.”

The memo also noted that cost estimates to implement temporary city-wide changes are in the several millions of dollars for the remainder of 2020 — and there’s no funding for it.

City staff will continue to monitor and adapt to changing transportation patterns said Manconi, and will bring forward recommendations to the transportation committee and work with councillors to identify locations where allocating space to pedestrians and cyclists on the right-of-way would be feasible and effective.


https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...-829820d9ddbd/

My extremely low opinion of Manconi has just gotten worse.

[SidetrackedSue]

Originally Posted by phil235

My extremely low opinion of Manconi has just gotten worse.

I don't like the guy but his job is to move people through Ottawa. During shut down when the streets were empty, letting pedestrians and then bikes and pedestrians onto the streets was a reasonable idea. And as long as it was outdoor dining only, closing streets for patios was a good idea to help businesses.

But traffic is picking up. In March and April I could cross Island Park at Clearview while on a walk without breaking stride. Now I have to wait for a break in traffic, or during peak hours, someone to let me cross.

With my car, I can no longer use Island Park confidently to get home from the 417. The tailbacks are now often to Richmond from Sir JAM. Sure that is better than the not unusual backup to Byron or Iona but given so few gov't workers are back on the job and it is summer, that is still an indication that volumes are returning.

Traffic on the commercial streets is definitely more than in May.

When the government is finally called back to their offices, traffic will get worse immediately.

The LRT is still not running at proper capacity and people are nervous about returning to transit and the crowds and delays that happen daily.

It would be all rainbows and lollypops to say that those people will take to their bikes instead of cars but 1) new/used bikes are in short supply right now and 2) we have 2 months of good biking weather left. New riders won't be struggling with all-weather commuting, they'll buy a car.

So protecting the roads for cars and buses needs to be done by someone. Who better than the transportation general manager to do so?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by SidetrackedSue

I don't like the guy but his job is to move people through Ottawa...

So protecting the roads for cars and buses needs to be done by someone. Who better than the transportation general manager to do so?

I think that your first point says it all - his job is to move people, not cars or buses. Pedestrian numbers are still way up, and bars and restaurants cannot fully open, so there is still a strong rationale for opening up more pedestrian space.

I wouldn't mind if he commented on the impact of particular closures on travel times. That is relevant information. But the allocation of public space is a city-building issue, and traffic is only one factor that needs to be considered. For him to come out against temporary closures in general is going well beyond his mandate.

I also have serious doubts about the accuracy of his claims. With the temporary closures that have been put in place to date, congestion has still not been a significant issue in the central areas. There is a trade-off to be made, but I've not seen anything to suggest that the proposed closure of parking lanes in the Glebe would result in significant delays. Even if it slows traffic by a couple of minutes, that needs to be balanced against space that could allow struggling restaurants to survive, and people to get out and patronize businesses without risking their health.

All in all, it is a very broad statement based on a very narrow viewpoint.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by Tesladom

Super 2's are notoriously dangerous, look at hwy 50

A poorly designed Super 2 is dangerous, but that doesn't have to be the case. A proper super 2 with an appropriate median and cable guardrail would be a massive upgrade at a fraction of the cost. The existing alignment would be usable in most places, with a focus on adding passing lanes wherever possible. Ontario literally has nothing in between a standard 2-lane highway and a massive, fully grade separated 400 series highway with a 120 km/h design speed. Just look at the last portion of the Highway 11 4-laning completed and the width of the ROW is absolutely massive. That was justifiable on that corridor, but the threshold for that style of highway is very high and we make do with a mediocre and even more dangerous 2-lane highway instead. The stretch out to Renfrew might justify an extension of the 417, but the rest of 17 and most of the highways in northern Ontario don't.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Catenary

A poorly designed Super 2 is dangerous, but that doesn't have to be the case. A proper super 2 with an appropriate median and cable guardrail would be a massive upgrade at a fraction of the cost. The existing alignment would be usable in most places, with a focus on adding passing lanes wherever possible. Ontario literally has nothing in between a standard 2-lane highway and a massive, fully grade separated 400 series highway with a 120 km/h design speed. Just look at the last portion of the Highway 11 4-laning completed and the width of the ROW is absolutely massive. That was justifiable on that corridor, but the threshold for that style of highway is very high and we make do with a mediocre and even more dangerous 2-lane highway instead. The stretch out to Renfrew might justify an extension of the 417, but the rest of 17 and most of the highways in northern Ontario don't.

Sudbury Bypass can be thought of as a super-2. Kenora Bypass too. It's not that they don't exist, but that they're super rare in Ontario.
As for traffic, you be surprised, some parts of Sudbury Bypass can reach 13K AADT (2016 figure).
That said, can anyone answer my question in #2017??

[Dengler Avenue]

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...229872&page=71 #1409
Picture taken by me 15 minutes ago: https://imgur.com/a/VCnw9IM

[Flemay]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...229872&page=71 #1409
Picture taken by me 15 minutes ago: https://imgur.com/a/VCnw9IM

Maybe it'll be just an overpass for county road 63.(partial interchange)

[Lightspotting]

Originally Posted by Catenary

A poorly designed Super 2 is dangerous, but that doesn't have to be the case. A proper super 2 with an appropriate median and cable guardrail would be a massive upgrade at a fraction of the cost.

I'm not convinced on cable guard rails, at least for large trucks.
https://youtu.be/0iGcwATYH4I

[Marcus CLS]

Originally Posted by Flemay

Maybe it'll be just an overpass for county road 63.(partial interchange)

The picture posted is the construction of a new concrete box culvert for a stream. They built a new culvert where the future widening will be. They have now detoured over the new section and are replacing the old culvert under the existing highway by extending the new section westerly.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by Lightspotting

I'm not convinced on cable guard rails, at least for large trucks.
https://youtu.be/0iGcwATYH4I

I get that, but a 400 series grass median wasn't about to stop that truck either, and a closer guard might have led to a shallow deflecting blow instead of a perpendicular one. Anything short of a concrete wall is going to have difficulty containing a fully loaded dump truck, as seen on the 417 last week:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comm...itch_417_west/

Even with concrete, the truck can still roll over the wall. Nothing is going to be 100% safe, but by waiting until we can justify a massive 2+2 400 series highway, we disregard any improvements that could be made in places we couldn't justify it.

[Acajack]

I am eagerly awaiting the four-lane divided A-50 over its entire length, but I do think the cable barriers will help things.

For starters that video is as has been said a perpendicular cross-over which would be fairly rare. The vast majority of cross-overs are gradual drifts into the other lane so the cable barrier would be a lot more effective.

Also, most of the head-on crashes between large trucks and smaller vehicles are the result of the smaller vehicles crossing into the other lane.

(Driver error causing crashes per km driven is much higher among average joes than among professional truck drivers.)

[lrt's friend]

We shouldn't wait for the best solution, which may take many years to complete, while a much cheaper solution will prevent the majority of serious accidents.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am eagerly awaiting the four-lane divided A-50 over its entire length, but I do think the cable barriers will help things.

For starters that video is as has been said a perpendicular cross-over which would be fairly rare. The vast majority of cross-overs are gradual drifts into the other lane so the cable barrier would be a lot more effective.

Also, most of the head-on crashes between large trucks and smaller vehicles are the result of the smaller vehicles crossing into the other lane.

(Driver error causing crashes per km driven is much higher among average joes than among professional truck drivers.)

Alright, that’s good.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://imgur.com/a/zapwmx6
By the way, I took these 2 photos last Saturday at the current end of 417 on the way back from Renfrew. I found it interesting that the future WB lanes will be higher (based on the height of their roadbed). Maybe it’s because of the rock outcrops down the road?
There were workers on the site on that day too. They seemed to be extending the culvert there as well.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

https://imgur.com/a/zapwmx6
By the way, I took these 2 photos last Saturday at the current end of 417 on the way back from Renfrew. I found it interesting that the future WB lanes will be higher (based on the height of their roadbed). Maybe it’s because of the rock outcrops down the road?

Not necessarily. This rock was dumped there from more easterly rock cuts on the property that was within the scope of the previous phase that was already acquired. It is very possible that this rock might be graded out to a lower level when the next phase construction begins.

[Dengler Avenue]

Ah, that makes more sense. I was thinking that it would be quite the climb from the elevation of the current WB lanes.
By the way, the stretch of 417 from Kenata to points west has some insane rock cuts along its route. Insane by Ottawa Valley standard, that is, IMO. Then there’s also the EB bridge over Madawaska River. It felt like a roller coaster ride. I figure we will expect something similar for one of bridges across Bonnechere River.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Lightspotting

I'm not convinced on cable guard rails, at least for large trucks.
https://youtu.be/0iGcwATYH4I

It's not perfect but far better than nothing. Most accidents along A-50 are probably idiots passing other drivers, drunks, people falling asleep, distracted drivers and one attempted suicide. The high-tension cable will stop all of those from crossing completely into the opposing lane.

Concerns have been raised by motorcyclists (high-tension cables could decapitate a motorcyclist), but I'm not convinced the chances of death are that much higher with these cables.

Kudos to the CAQ for doing SOMETHING.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Not necessarily. This rock was dumped there from more easterly rock cuts on the property that was within the scope of the previous phase that was already acquired. It is very possible that this rock might be graded out to a lower level when the next phase construction begins.

This is exactly what happened with the last expansion. There was a massive pile of rock along the treeline west of Campbell Road that was spread out in the extension.

[Requin]

Police see an increase in collisions in Queensway construction zone
Peter Szperling, CTV News, Aug 18, 2020
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/police-see...zone-1.5069649

“It’s all adding up to maybe four to six collisions a day, and in the last week or so we’ve had fifty collisions in that area,” says Bill Dickson, OPP Eastern Ontario Media Relations Co-ordinator.

This is on the 417 eastbound at Parkdale. They are blaming it on aggressive and inattentive drivers. Haven't been down this stretch recently, but if we're talking about 4-6 collisions a day, I'm inclined to think that there is room for improvement in terms of the traffic management setup around the construction zone.

[Dengler Avenue]

First, 80 km/h zone all the way. No more small pockets of 100 km/h zones here and there.