Manitoba Highways

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by drew

You would still need to re-route traffic while the bridge is under construction - maybe a roundabout solves that issue by pre-building the re-routed traffic allowance that could then be used in the future when the bridge never gets built....

They can get away with the usual detouring traffing to either the WB or EB lanes using the existing roadway, down to 1 lane each way. It's not like Perimeter where 1 lane would cripple traffic at rush hour and they had to put some work in to rejig the 2 travel lanes.

[Sasquatch]

We should not have highway development being driven by press coverage of accidents. The concern over the Carberry intersection got amped up due one accident in which an unusually large number of people were killed. Serious accidents are much more common at intersections like PTH 16 and the TCH at Portage La Prairie, but they usually involve one or two people and thus get next to no press coverage. Hence, interchange improvements which should be a higher priority slide down the list instead.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

We should not have highway development being driven by press coverage of accidents. The concern over the Carberry intersection got amped up due one accident in which an unusually large number of people were killed. Serious accidents are much more common at intersections like PTH 16 and the TCH at Portage La Prairie, but they usually involve one or two people and thus get next to no press coverage. Hence, interchange improvements which should be a higher priority slide down the list instead.

Totally. I mentioned that earlier. knee jerk reaction.

[Dengler Avenue]

On that note, who’s the consultant for TCH twinning in Falcon Lake then?
Also, I have a feeling that, in Ontario, WSP proposes stuff that’s more in line with what MTO wants. Maybe the issue is with M.I.T.??
Edit: Actually, I have to think who it was that proposed a roundabout at the JCT of 2 freeways south of Sudbury (between 2 branches of TCH). It might have been WSP. People fumed so the design got changed to a proper system interchange.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

On that note, who’s the consultant for TCH twinning in Falcon Lake then?
Also, I have a feeling that, in Ontario, WSP proposes stuff that’s more in line with what MTO wants. Maybe the issue is with M.I.T.??
Edit: Actually, I have to think who it was that proposed a roundabout at the JCT of 2 freeways south of Sudbury (between 2 branches of TCH). It might have been WSP. People fumed so the design got changed to a proper system interchange.

https://www.gov.mb.ca/mti/projects_m...ect_boards.pdf

It's Tetra Tech. They're trying to get more into transportation locally. The TT team is good at structures and drainage.

MTI has pre-approved consultants that are able to bid on tis work. They really limited themselves about 5-7 years ago. When they only allowed 3 pre-qual'd consultants. WSP being one of them who bid super cheap on the work. Now they're the sort of default team to win a lot of the work. I'm not up to speed 100% on the MTI RFP's. But a lot of them are based on past experience. So the cost is a wash and teams score points based on their team. WSP wins. Hopefully they're making a point to get away from a single provider. There's numerous pre-qual'd providers now.

[bodaggin]

Stop normalizing RCUT, Roundabout, etc on our only national "Interstate" highway. This is conditioned behavior and must stop, because it allows worse and worse decisions to be made.

We're allowed and should ask for the proper roads (overpasses) to be built, not solidifying and catering to past incompetence. The incompetence is wrong, not our desire for proper road design. Incompetence must be purged.

Single lane roundabouts are excellent features.... For 50kph roads.

Not for 110kph highways (which should actually be 140kph+ if built properly). We're the 2nd largest land mass in the world. Rural highways are meant for covering large distances, quickly. They should function as such.

TCH needs to be grade separated, starting with the most dangerous intersections first. End of story. No compromise.

[drew]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

TCH needs to be grade separated, starting with the most dangerous intersections first. End of story. No compromise.

And how is that working so far?

When you don't have the money, compromise is a necessary evil - like it or not.

[bodaggin]

Originally Posted by drew

And how is that working so far?

When you don't have the money, compromise is a necessary evil - like it or not.

They DO have the money. They allotted $12 million to Carberry! For a roundabout! You can build an interchange for $12m. It's a 2 lane bridge in BFN Manitoba. It's not rocket science. No compromise. Stop perpetuating this settling mentality.

Originally Posted by rivercity

I really think the Feds need to step in and do something to nationalize to TCH or throw some money at these locations.

💯💯💯 Nationalize TCH.

[craner]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

https://www.gov.mb.ca/mti/projects_m...ect_boards.pdf

It's Tetra Tech.

Is the schedule on page 7 of the PDF still up-to-date? i.e. will they be selecting the preferred option in early 2024 (stage 5 of 8) and submitting the final report by the end of the year ?

[Dengler Avenue]

Yea I messaged an engineer about it too.
He said, “ It’s not WSP, it’s the new government not wanting to spend money on highways.”

[rivercity]

I really think the Feds need to step in and do something to nationalize to TCH or throw some money at these locations.

[Biff]

About 10 years ago or so I had this discussion with some of the top people at MIT. They said that in a rural area, without the need for any additional infrastructure (sewer, cable line, gas line) movements which is most of Hwy 1, a basic I29 style diamond interchange would cost between $15-$20m. Any additional road works is on top of that. Someone can do the cost increase due to inflation from 2010 to 2024 but I would imagine that a basic diamond now would be approx $25-30m.

I'll ask around to see if I can get an update.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Biff

About 10 years ago or so I had this discussion with some of the top people at MIT. They said that in a rural area, without the need for any additional infrastructure (sewer, cable line, gas line) movements which is most of Hwy 1, a basic I29 style diamond interchange would cost between $15-$20m. Any additional road works is on top of that. Someone can do the cost increase due to inflation from 2010 to 2024 but I would imagine that a basic diamond now would be approx $25-30m.

I'll ask around to see if I can get an update.

Ya that makes sense. It includes new roadways and such. To add the bridge and ramps at PTH 5 for example shouldn't be more than $20 million for everything. If they want to rebuild the mainlines, widen median, etc, it will inflate that number greatly.

This is the point where they are going to spend $12 million for the RCUT or whatever, build the interchange. Value for money.

[Dengler Avenue]

Why so expensive? Soil condition? Oligopoly in the construction sector?

[bodaggin]

Originally Posted by Biff

About 10 years a basic I29 style diamond interchange would cost between $15-$20m. I would imagine that a basic diamond now would be approx $25-30m.

I'll ask around to see if I can get an update.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Why so expensive? Soil condition? Oligopoly in the construction sector?

Ya current $25m+ seems way high. The Hwy 59 @ Perimeter project was $200m. This included 8 bridges (1-2 lanes wide), and 2 bridges (3-4 lanes wide).

Total 10 bridges, practically triple stack, curved bridges, tons of land work, and highly congested/restricted construction areas to work around. Expensive (but incredibly well done. Bravo.)

That's a per bridge cost of $10m in 2015-2019. To @bomberjet's point in another forum.

I can't see a 2-lane rural overpass be more than $20m in the worst case scenario. Prudently, $15m.

I'll fire off pricing emails to Nelson River and Sigfusson and see if they respond. Doubtful, we'll see.

Regardless, spend the $14-20m now for a proper fix. Vs spending $12m now for a crap fix, only to delete it and spend another $25m in the future, total cost $40m. Common sense.

[bodaggin]

Carberry plot got thicker. Today's Brandon Sun quoting MB Gov estimating Carberry overpass at $100m. I repeat $100m.

There is no, way, in HELL, a rural 2 lane bridge costs $100m. Nowhere near.

Either it's a misquote (I didn't hear this mentioned at presser). Or something nefarious is going on here.

For perspective, 300 Main St. the tallest building in MB, in the most congested part of Winnipeg, cost $165m to build. WTAF is going on here.

Article Link: https://www.brandonsun.com/local/202...-mixed-reviews

[Justanothermember]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

Carberry plot got thicker. Today's Brandon Sun quoting MB Gov estimating Carberry overpass at $100m. I repeat $100m.

There is no, way, in HELL, a rural 2 lane bridge costs $100m. Nowhere near.

Either it's a misquote (I didn't hear this mentioned at presser). Or something nefarious is going on here.

For perspective, 300 Main St. the tallest building in MB, in the most congested part of Winnipeg, cost $165m to build. WTAF is going on here.

Article Link: https://www.brandonsun.com/local/202...-mixed-reviews

If I didn't know better, I would swear that there is some sort of government conspiracy to prevent appropriate road infrastructure from being built in this province (which includes both the NDP and the Tories), and that articles like these are out to poison the general public's minds through scare tactics into thinking that structures like diamond interchanges can't be done, or at least completed at reasonable prices. Ever.

[plrh]

Wasn't the St. Mary's Overpass about $100M? And that was with a lot of new roads and embankments. Maybe they meant $100M in 2043 dollars.

[Dengler Avenue]

$100 million? That’s the price tag for twinning 6 KM of TCH from Manitoba - Ontario border easterly.
Is Manitoba’s construction industry controlled by mafia or something? I thought that only Quebec would have that problem.

[Dengler Avenue]

Even $30 million is a bit high for a diamond interchange.
An investigation is warranted either way.