Hwy 99 Fraser River Tunnel (George Massey Replacement) | Proposed

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

It is a mix of both comments above.

The new interchanges will be tighter and will actually return some land from the ROW (such as the land within the old style clover leaf style ramps)

Also some land will be returned since the bridge is 3KM long so a good section of surface level highway will be removed. The bridge will also be high enough that the land under the bridge for a good portion of it will be able to be used for other activities.

And then there is the fact that the MOT has long had land reserved on the sides (and middle) of the existing highway for future expansion, so essentially nearly 0 ALR / private land will be needed for the project.

Good points thank you for clarifying

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

What you dont see while driving 99 many times is the ROW already allocated to the highway which is typical in any highway design for planning for the future.
So when you hear the statistic that there is no net loss of land. Its includes the ROW

Ya, that's what I'm seeing in those drawings. They are "giving back" land that isn't used today for anything, but was part of the original ROW.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by deasine

I think the Steveston/99 Junction would be a terrible environment for alighting passengers. As much as having stops in the centre of the highway are best for operations, the "journey" to the actual platform/bus bays are neglected and per the plan, it doesn't seem like a good environment with concrete flyovers and flyunders all around you (and Metro, I know you love it but us forumers are generally an exception...).

Yeah it won't be overly pleasant, but there really isn't any way to make it so in such an interchange. The pedestrian treatments in this situation are really the only way to do it.

Actually, I think it'll be a big improvement over the current situation. I catch and get off the bus at the current interchange all the time, and you're always having to cross on and off ramps, which can be intimidating when cars are whipping by. With the new design, pedestrians will be completely grade separated from the highway. While it'll suck walking around with ramps hanging over top of you, it's a pretty short walk and still more pleasant than ducking cars.

[twoNeurons]

A few questions. How many buses will use this route? Is there any details as to what that center median looks like? Has CPTED been considered?

[officedweller]

I think you can assume there are grade/elevational issues and the path is meant to be all abilities (i.e. wheelchair ramp).
The same applies to the ramp on the other side of the highway.

I suppose in theory they could install a steeper "short-cut" path (maybe even with stairs?).
Maybe add that to the consultation comments?

[GlassCity]

LOTS of buses will use that route. Highway 99 is a very busy transit corridor. The 351 alone is on the Frequent Transit Network, and at rush hour when the 352, 354 and 311 are all in service, there are gonna be plenty of buses.

As for the paths, I'm assuming they're just following ramp design and the grade of the land, to make them as accessible (and cheap) as possible.

[dleung]

Absolutely hate transit stops like these. Richmond is wealthy. Many take transit not out of necessity but for comfort and convenience; otherwise they'll get right back into their cars. That part of Richmond is never meant to be a growth area and they will never run skytrain down highway 99 (for good reason), so this is a lot of infrastructure built for relatively little long-term improvement to transit (better service level offset by inferior experience)

[crazyjoeda]

In the model, it appears buses to Tsawwassen and the ferry terminal would bypass the bus stop on the centre median, which would be a wasted opportunity to greatly improve transfer options.

Currently, transit from Surrey to the ferries in Tsawwassen is highly impractical. Having buses bound for South Delta/Tsawwassen (like the 620) share a stop on the median with Surrey buses (like the 351) would be huge improvement from the current situation.

I hope simple yet important details like this aren't overlooked especially since the overall merits of this project are questionable at least as currently purposed.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by crazyjoeda

In the model, it appears buses to Tsawwassen and the ferry terminal would bypass the bus stop on the centre median, which would be a wasted opportunity to greatly improve transfer options.

Currently, transit from Surrey to the ferries in Tsawwassen is highly impractical. Having buses bound for South Delta/Tsawwassen (like the 620) share a stop on the median with Surrey buses (like the 351) would be huge improvement from the current situation.

I hope simple yet important details like this aren't overlooked especially since the overall merits of this project are questionable at least as currently purposed.

I think that bus passengers travelling between the ferry terminal and points farther south on Hwy 99 would have to transfer at the Steveston Hwy HOV Bus Station (i.e. one stop away).

If the transfer is to a bus headed up River Road (is there such a thing?) the transfer would be made on Hwy 17A (presumably there would be a stop west of the interchange on Hwy 17A).

Disclosure - I don't know where the 351 or other Surrey buses travel.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by crazyjoeda

In the model, it appears buses to Tsawwassen and the ferry terminal would bypass the bus stop on the centre median, which would be a wasted opportunity to greatly improve transfer options.

Currently, transit from Surrey to the ferries in Tsawwassen is highly impractical. Having buses bound for South Delta/Tsawwassen (like the 620) share a stop on the median with Surrey buses (like the 351) would be huge improvement from the current situation.

I hope simple yet important details like this aren't overlooked especially since the overall merits of this project are questionable at least as currently purposed.

Wouldn't those decisions be up to Translink? The physical infrastructures to pass or stop is just provided in the project. Then Translink would decide the exact route details on how to use the bus stops.

[officedweller]

They'd be consulted - the same way I would expect they'd be for bus loops at SkyTrain stations built by the Province.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Wouldn't those decisions be up to Translink? The physical infrastructures to pass or stop is just provided in the project. Then Translink would decide the exact route details on how to use the bus stops.

You'd think there would be some consultations between the MOT and Translink so as to avoid a situation similar to the Port Mann Bridge where the Ministry built bus infrastructure but Translink didn't have the funds to provide the service. Hopefully this time around Transliteration won't have to chop services elsewhere to take advantage of the new infrastructure.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

You'd think there would be some consultations between the MOT and Translink so as to avoid a situation similar to the Port Mann Bridge where the Ministry built bus infrastructure but Translink didn't have the funds to provide the service. Hopefully this time around Transliteration won't have to chop services elsewhere to take advantage of the new infrastructure.

I hope for this as well, but unlike the 555 aren't many of the bus rout s that will use this infrastructure already existing?

And yes, a bus coming from Surrey and transferring riders at the old 17 interchange bus stop for the ferries would be a great idea.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

You'd think there would be some consultations between the MOT and Translink so as to avoid a situation similar to the Port Mann Bridge where the Ministry built bus infrastructure but Translink didn't have the funds to provide the service. Hopefully this time around Transliteration won't have to chop services elsewhere to take advantage of the new infrastructure.

i am sure there was consultations on the Highway #1 bus lanes, etc. just because they didn't have the budget today, doesn't mean they wont in the future. it would be a pain in the ass to add that after the fact, it would be better to have it today and not need it until tomorrow, then not have it today and need it tomorrow.

[Tfreder]

Originally Posted by crazyjoeda

In the model, it appears buses to Tsawwassen and the ferry terminal would bypass the bus stop on the centre median, which would be a wasted opportunity to greatly improve transfer options.

Currently, transit from Surrey to the ferries in Tsawwassen is highly impractical. Having buses bound for South Delta/Tsawwassen (like the 620) share a stop on the median with Surrey buses (like the 351) would be huge improvement from the current situation.

I hope simple yet important details like this aren't overlooked especially since the overall merits of this project are questionable at least as currently purposed.

It's definitely tricky. They could move the centre median bus stop back more towards the bridge so it's before the 17a HOV off ramp so the delta-bound buses can use it as well. It could make pedestrian connections and transfers to the 640 less convenient though.

However, I have absolutely no idea how they'd make a Delta -> Surrey transfer possible. I can't figure out how it would work in that current interchange model.

[DKaz]

The Hwy 17A bus stop seems useless without the transfer opportunity. Just have that one transfer point at Steveston.

[Metro-One]

Wouldn't the 17A location be better for Surrey transfers than Steveston. Also how do you mean it does not have a transfer opportunity? Looks like there are bus bays on the 17A overpass with access to the bus bay below.

[officedweller]

The red lines are my guess at the bus routes from the ferry to and from the north.
They don't stop at either the Hwy 99 HOV median station or the bus stop on the overpass.
So my guess is that you have 2 options:
- to transfer to a bus to / from south on Hwy 99 - transfer at Steveston Hwy median HOV station.
- to transfer to/from an east-west bus along River Road, transfer at a stop along Hwy 17A (west of Hwy 99).

Originally Posted by officedweller

I figure they'll use the flyover ramp.
When the ramp touches down, it'll be adjacent to the HOV lanes, so there'll likely be an entry point to the HOV there.
The ramp could even be signed for 1 HOV, 1 general purpose lane.
Note that neither bus route would access the 17A median station.

[GlassCity]

There is already a bus that goes directly to Surrey from Ladner, the 640, which travels north from the interchange up River Road. Theoretically, this is the bus you would use if you wanted to connect to South Surrey too: take it to the interchange, and then take the 351 east/south along highway 99 to White Rock.

I agree with you all though that it would be great if the 601 could stop at the interchange too, on its way north up highway 99. It's more frequent than the 640 during peak hours, and it travels directly from Tsawassen too which is more convenient. Another forumer made a drawing above where this could be mad possible. Alas, I have no idea how to voice this with the project. Any time I've gone to these open houses or public engagement sessions, it seems to be much less of an opportunity to share your views as it is just a place where they tell you what they're gonna do.

[urbancanadian]

just deleted a big post by mistake... fuck... I'll redo it tomorrow...