Federal Government & Politics II

[Innsertnamehere]

I imagine it'll be an annual fee you pay at registration renewal based on the mileage the vehicle travelled over the last 12 months. It's easier than an in-car odometer reader feeding information back to the government.

Honestly, given the way gas taxes have moved in the last 50 years or so with no substantial increases over most of the continent, not even to keep up with inflation, it may not get replaced with anything and that money will instead just come from general revenues.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The replacement will likely be a road tax based on usage (newer smart cars could be required to keep a log of where and when they drove, and this could be reported to Revenue Canada for a tax calculation). Alternatively, there could be a tax applied to the use of public fast chargers, but, this would be less fair since wealthier individuals with private homes, garages and their own charging infrastructure might be able to escape this.

Regardless, there will be a reckoning, and EV drivers will be required to pay a road usage tax of some form.

God no. The idea of a mandatory logging of passengers trip in mandatorily connected cars is a huge privacy disaster waiting to happen.

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I imagine it'll be an annual fee you pay at registration renewal based on the mileage the vehicle travelled over the last 12 months. It's easier than an in-car odometer reader feeding information back to the government.

This is much better.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I imagine it'll be an annual fee you pay at registration renewal based on the mileage the vehicle travelled over the last 12 months. It's easier than an in-car odometer reader feeding information back to the government.
.

Don't count out the idea of an ongoing travel log being used with automatic transmission to either Revenue Canada or the provincial MOT. This provides far more granular data, and could be used for such things as automatic collection of bridge/road tolls and congestion fees as well.

Also, law enforcement would love to see exactly when and where your car has been travelling when conducting criminal investigations.

One can never be too paranoid when it comes to the government.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Not sure if it’s been talked about, but a big portion of cost when filling up a tank of gas is the gas tax, which is used to pay for building, maintenance, and modernizing roads. What would replace the gas tax? Also, what will the price would we expect for charging a full battery come 2035?surely the government will do everything they can to get their hands some sort of revenue when that revenue is lost from ICE vehicles

For the bazillionth time, this isn't Cinderella and every gas car on the road doesn't turn into a pumpkin at the stroke of midnight on New Year's Eve 2034. Easily 60-70% of cars on the road in 2035 will be pure ICEV. The decline in revenue won't even really be noticeable to most governments for at least another 5-7 years.

As for how to make up the revenue, that will be mostly up to provincial governments. The majority of excise taxes and sales taxes on gas are collected by the provincial governments. They'll each have their own way of dealing with the shortfall.

Looking at this wiki here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moto...axes_in_Canada

Combined, the federal and provincial governments collect about $15B in excise and sales taxes across all fuels. This works out to about $570 per motor vehicle in Canada. Of course that doesn't consider the disproportionate consumption of heavier vehicles or aviation or the question of whether the feds need to keep collecting fees from drivers. But that's about the maximum. So maybe tack on $570 to annual registration fees? I'm hoping we'll finally start taxing vehicle owners based on vehicle size and weight.

What works depends on the goal.
Simplicity? Flat plate tax
Privacy? Flat plate tax
Fairness? Scaled tax based on usage or vehicle characteristics
Environment? Flat plate tax (helps discourage car ownership).

I'd say split the difference and make them flat taxes scaled to vehicle weight and maybe size. But again each province is different and I'm sure Ontario will pick the most retarded option possible.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Build.It

It is only possible to charge at home if you have a garage, or a private driveway at the very least. For the millions of people who live in apartments, condos, townhouses (with parking lots), or simple street parking, this isn't possible. They will have no choice but to rely on comparably slow public chargers, or drive a used ICE car, or an even more expensive PHEV.

Sure it's possible. New condos are being built (and mandated) to have EV charging at every parking spot. Many more are being upgraded as we speak. My condo has shared chargers for residents to use.

Plus lots of workplaces are offering charging. Not to mention malls, stores, etc.

Of course this is all very easy to learn, if you choose to do so.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Build.It

Not to mention the extra wear on our roads from all the extra weight.

Yeah those EVs sure are heavy, unlike the ICE F150s, which are light as a feather.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Build.It

It is only possible to charge at home if you have a garage, or a private driveway at the very least. For the millions of people who live in apartments, condos, townhouses (with parking lots), or simple street parking, this isn't possible. They will have no choice but to rely on comparably slow public chargers, or drive a used ICE car, or an even more expensive PHEV.

There are thousands of charging stations already installed in apartments and condos, and every new apartment parking garage has some, and in some municipalities, all the stalls equipped with chargers. Office building parkades have chargers. Public parking garages are installing chargers. Gas stations are installing chargers. In parts of Europe, and the UK where ev sales have taken off, public charging stations have become a stand-alone business.

Norway has gone from under 200,000 EVs in the country in 2018, to 600,000 last year (which is already over 20% of passenger vehicles on the road). Last year EVs were 88% of all vehicle sales in the country.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yeah those EVs sure are heavy, unlike the ICE F150s, which are light as a feather.

The average daily weight applied to roads will likely still be higher at 60%+ EVs. That being said, there will also be less gasoline and oil seeping into the pavement and deteriorating the structural integrity.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

The average daily weight applied to roads will likely still be higher at 60%+ EVs. That being said, there will also be less gasoline and oil seeping into the pavement and deteriorating the structural integrity.

Isn't this a 90/10 issue too? Where 90% of the damage is done by the heaviest 10% of vehicles? Namely commercial semi trucks, buses, etc.

[Acajack]

I think most people don't even realize how many chargers there already are in their midst, until they actually get an EV. I certainly didn't.

And we're still in the very, very early days of the transition.

[Acajack]

Really hard to believe the Liberals (LPC) are tracking to win six seats in Alberta.

https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/...301232/photo/1

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think most people don't even realize how many chargers there already are in their midst, until they actually get an EV. I certainly didn't.

And we're still in the very, very early days of the transition.

And there is confirmation the Tesla really are working on wireless induction charging.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think most people don't even realize how many chargers there already are in their midst, until they actually get an EV. I certainly didn't.

And we're still in the very, very early days of the transition.

Yes they are often very subtle. If you have no reason to look for them, you'd never notice them.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think most people don't even realize how many chargers there already are in their midst, until they actually get an EV. I certainly didn't.

And we're still in the very, very early days of the transition.

Exactly.

Average driver: "There's no chargers near me."

EV Driver: "I never noticed these chargers at the mall and the service centre before. Oh and I never looked on the app for what was around me."

Most people who looked at ABRP for what's around them would be very surprised.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Really hard to believe the Liberals (LPC) are tracking to win six seats in Alberta.

https://twitter.com/CanadianPolling/...301232/photo/1

Small sample size. Headline number also decent for Liberals with very thin Con majority.

[Build.It]

This is just embarrassing (starts at 23:15):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY56N3a1_KE

They were responding to this interview:
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex...box=1702914853

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

The average daily weight applied to roads will likely still be higher at 60%+ EVs. That being said, there will also be less gasoline and oil seeping into the pavement and deteriorating the structural integrity.

The lightest F150 weighs almost as much as the heaviest Model 3. EVs aren't nearly the problem that the general bloat of vehicles and tendency to upsize is. Also batteries and EVs themselves are getting lighter with each generation. I think it's highly likely that EVs will be the same weight as their equivalent ICEVs in a decade or so.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by Build.It

....the likely outcome of EV mandates are massive inflation of used ICE cars....The likeliest outcome as far as I can tell of this is that far fewer cars will be sold per year, which means we will start seeing massive used car price inflation starting as early as 2 years from now. Combine that with a period of higher interest rates, and the outcome to the average family's finances will be even more devastating than they are facing currently. This won't have much of an effect on the small minority of Canadians whose living situations don't require personal ownership of a vehicle, but for everyone else this will result in a massive deterioration of their quality of life.

Originally Posted by Build.It

....In the best case scenario you would need to have 6x as many EV chargers as there are gas pumps currently just to fulfill the same amount of demand without running into shortages. But we will likely need more than that....

Originally Posted by Build.It

Not to mention the extra wear on our roads from all the extra weight.

Originally Posted by Build.It

It is only possible to charge at home if you have a garage, or a private driveway at the very least. For the millions of people who live in apartments, condos, townhouses (with parking lots), or simple street parking, this isn't possible. They will have no choice but to rely on comparably slow public chargers, or drive a used ICE car, or an even more expensive PHEV.

.
.
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Originally Posted by Build.It

This is just embarrassing....

Yes, it is.

[Docere]

Alberta is actually becoming a bit less Conservative (i.e. more like the 50s rather than 65-70%) but that's still enough to win nearly all the seats in the province.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The lightest F150 weighs almost as much as the heaviest Model 3. EVs aren't nearly the problem that the general bloat of vehicles and tendency to upsize is. Also batteries and EVs themselves are getting lighter with each generation. I think it's highly likely that EVs will be the same weight as their equivalent ICEVs in a decade or so.

It is odd how the naysayers all seem to forget how much ICE vehicles have evolved and improved, not just since their introduction, but even in the last decade - as if EVs would somehow be exempt from this same process of refinement.