VIA Rail network developments

[J.OT13]

Pierre Poilievre P.C., M.P. Carleton
Shadow Minister for Jobs and Industry

There's your problem. Skippy isn't going to support anything that moves the country forward. His job is exclusively bashing the current Government on everything and anything.

How that guy keeps being elected, I'll never know.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

There's your problem. Skippy isn't going to support anything that moves the country forward. His job is exclusively bashing the current Government on everything and anything.

How that guy keeps being elected, I'll never know.

He knows how to play the game. I'm not a fan, but I will say it was impressive that prior to COVID, he was constantly going door to door throughout his constituency (he was at my door about every 6 to 9 months) even when there wasn't an election on the horizon.

[Norman Bates]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

There's your problem. Skippy isn't going to support anything that moves the country forward. His job is exclusively bashing the current Government on everything and anything.

How that guy keeps being elected, I'll never know.

I don’t personally align with his politics. But I’ve dealt with him personally three times. And I have to say that he’s pretty much the best politician I can think of.

I don’t have to align with his politics to recognize his strengths.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Norman Bates

I don’t personally align with his politics. But I’ve dealt with him personally three times. And I have to say that he’s pretty much the best politician I can think of.

Good to hear that he has political skills, because he has no other discernable skills of any kind.

That response is definitely political. Full of platitudes and empty statements. It screams that this is in no way a priority for him.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by phil235

Good to hear that he has political skills, because he has no other discernable skills of any kind.

That response is definitely political. Full of platitudes and empty statements. It screams that this is in no way a priority for him.

Gaining power is his priority. He comes across as a slick salesman, the type that I don't trust.

[rocketphish]

High-frequency rail service from Québec City to Toronto is a sustainable economic recovery project
With the 2021 federal budget about to be tabled, Mayor Jim Watson and his counterparts in Toronto, Montreal and Quebec City want the federal government to invest in a 'nation-building' initiative.

Jim Watson
Publishing date: Apr 17, 2021 • 6 hours ago • 2 minute read



As mayors of the largest economic centres in Ontario and Quebec, we call unanimously on the federal government to invest in high-frequency rail to support Canada’s post-pandemic economic recovery and long-term environmental objectives.

As businesses, communities and all levels of government across Canada continue to manage the impacts of the ongoing pandemic, it is imperative to invest in sustainable and large-scale infrastructure projects that will support a green and inclusive recovery for our cities and regions.

The federal government has repeatedly shown its interest and commitment in investing in sustainable projects, which would create a more resilient and greener Canada. If we are to come out of this unprecedented crisis stronger, we need projects that will serve the needs of present and future generations. This is exactly what VIA Rail’s High Frequency Rail (HFR) project will achieve by connecting Québec, Montreal, Ottawa, and Toronto.

High-frequency rail will upgrade and build new tracks dedicated to passenger service, connecting surrounding regions at the same time. It will offer more daily departures, shorter trip times, and increased punctuality. In other words, by connecting our communities more efficiently, this project will have huge repercussions for millions of Canadians and visitors from around the world.

This large-scale endeavour will have a substantial economic impact. In the short term, HFR will contribute to Canada’s economic recovery by creating thousands of jobs during the construction phase. In the long run, HFR will further increase the mobility of workers, as well as local economic development and tourism in communities along the corridor. That said, its impacts will be felt on a national scale, as it will operate in the most densely populated region of the country.

Beyond the direct economic benefits, VIA Rail’s HFR project will also transform the way Canadians travel and live. By providing more departures, HFR will make travel easier, offer a viable and sustainable alternative to the car, and therefore reduce road congestion, the cost of maintaining highways and greenhouse gas emissions.

For all the reasons stated above, we believe this VIA Rail project is in line with the government of Canada’s stated commitment to invest in sustainable infrastructure. Therefore, as the tabling of the 2021 federal budget approaches, we ask the federal government to invest in this nation-building project.

In times of crisis, we need to invest in projects that will not only boost our economy in the short and long term, but also ensure the resilience, sustainability and competitiveness of our communities. High-frequency rail is part of the solution.

Jim Watson is the mayor of Ottawa; Régis Labeaume is the mayor of Québec City; Valérie Plante is the mayor of Montreal; and John Tory is the mayor of Toronto.

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/th...covery-project

[DarthVader_1961]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

High-frequency rail service from Québec City to Toronto is a sustainable economic recovery project
With the 2021 federal budget about to be tabled, Mayor Jim Watson and his counterparts in Toronto, Montreal and Quebec City want the federal government to invest in a 'nation-building' initiative.

Jim Watson
Publishing date: Apr 17, 2021 • 6 hours ago • 2 minute read



As mayors of the largest economic centres in Ontario and Quebec, we call unanimously on the federal government to invest in high-frequency rail to support Canada’s post-pandemic economic recovery and long-term environmental objectives.

As businesses, communities and all levels of government across Canada continue to manage the impacts of the ongoing pandemic, it is imperative to invest in sustainable and large-scale infrastructure projects that will support a green and inclusive recovery for our cities and regions.

The federal government has repeatedly shown its interest and commitment in investing in sustainable projects, which would create a more resilient and greener Canada. If we are to come out of this unprecedented crisis stronger, we need projects that will serve the needs of present and future generations. This is exactly what VIA Rail’s High Frequency Rail (HFR) project will achieve by connecting Québec, Montreal, Ottawa, and Toronto.

High-frequency rail will upgrade and build new tracks dedicated to passenger service, connecting surrounding regions at the same time. It will offer more daily departures, shorter trip times, and increased punctuality. In other words, by connecting our communities more efficiently, this project will have huge repercussions for millions of Canadians and visitors from around the world.

This large-scale endeavour will have a substantial economic impact. In the short term, HFR will contribute to Canada’s economic recovery by creating thousands of jobs during the construction phase. In the long run, HFR will further increase the mobility of workers, as well as local economic development and tourism in communities along the corridor. That said, its impacts will be felt on a national scale, as it will operate in the most densely populated region of the country.

Beyond the direct economic benefits, VIA Rail’s HFR project will also transform the way Canadians travel and live. By providing more departures, HFR will make travel easier, offer a viable and sustainable alternative to the car, and therefore reduce road congestion, the cost of maintaining highways and greenhouse gas emissions.

For all the reasons stated above, we believe this VIA Rail project is in line with the government of Canada’s stated commitment to invest in sustainable infrastructure. Therefore, as the tabling of the 2021 federal budget approaches, we ask the federal government to invest in this nation-building project.

In times of crisis, we need to invest in projects that will not only boost our economy in the short and long term, but also ensure the resilience, sustainability and competitiveness of our communities. High-frequency rail is part of the solution.

Jim Watson is the mayor of Ottawa; Régis Labeaume is the mayor of Québec City; Valérie Plante is the mayor of Montreal; and John Tory is the mayor of Toronto.

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/th...covery-project

Are high frequency and high speed the same?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

Are high frequency and high speed the same?

No. High speed trains can go 200km/h tp 350 km/h. HFR will go up to 177 km/h, which is a bit above VIA's current top speed of 160 km/h.

The HFR's goal is to build VIA its own RoW (as opposed using CN and CPR lines, where the freight companies have priority). This will allow for slightly higher speeds, fairly significantly shorter travel times, and much high frequencies (hence the name).

Here's a 2016 graph comparing cost and travel times of current service vs HFR vs HSR. Not sure how accurate this still is.


http://www.cat-bus.com/2016/10/via-t...regional-rail/

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

Are high frequency and high speed the same?

Further to what J.OT13 said, the primary goal of HFR is for VIA to build/buy its own dedicated tracks to allow them full control over over the right of way. Currently they use primarily CN's tracks and CN not only limits the number of trains VIA can run on their tracks, but doesn't give VIA priority, so often VIA trains get stuck behind a slow freight train. So not only will the number of trains per day increase, but the on time performance will be much higher.

Also, the current top speed of 160 km/h is just that, the top speed. In reality they often can't travel that fast because of congestion. With dedicated tracks there will be little to no interference from freight trains. If you look at VIA's schedule over the past 20 years, trains are significantly slower today than they were back then because of this congestion.

The other thing about HFR is it will combine the Toronto-Ottawa, Ottawa Montreal and Toronto-Montreal routes into one route, allowing high frequencies on all three routings by sharing trains.

[DarthVader_1961]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Further to what J.OT13 said, the primary goal of HFR is for VIA to build/buy its own dedicated tracks to allow them full control over over the right of way. Currently they use primarily CN's tracks and CN not only limits the number of trains VIA can run on their tracks, but doesn't give VIA priority, so often VIA trains get stuck behind a slow freight train. So not only will the number of trains per day increase, but the on time performance will be much higher.

Also, the current top speed of 160 km/h is just that, the top speed. In reality they often can't travel that fast because of congestion. With dedicated tracks there will be little to no interference from freight trains. If you look at VIA's schedule over the past 20 years, trains are significantly slower today than they were back then because of this congestion.

The other thing about HFR is it will combine the Toronto-Ottawa, Ottawa Montreal and Toronto-Montreal routes into one route, allowing high frequencies on all three routings by sharing trains.

Sounds like a good idea

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

No. High speed trains can go 200km/h tp 350 km/h. HFR will go up to 177 km/h, which is a bit above VIA's current top speed of 160 km/h.

The HFR's goal is to build VIA its own RoW (as opposed using CN and CPR lines, where the freight companies have priority). This will allow for slightly higher speeds, fairly significantly shorter travel times, and much high frequencies (hence the name).

I wish people wouldn't get hung up on top speed. Average speed matters far more.

More importantly people need to start understanding HFR as a stepping stone.

[Innsertnamehere]

The biggest problem is that while HFR returns great Toronto - Ottawa and Ottawa - Montreal travel times, Toronto - Montreal sees barely any improvement.

30 years ago trains could do Toronto - Montreal in 4 hours - yet they are proposing to build a line for billions that does it in 4:45? Seems funny to me.

[Truenorth00]

30 years ago two trains a day ran on very uncongested freight tracks in 4 hrs.

HFR will provide 15 trains a day that all run as fast as existing Toronto-Montreal express trains today and faster than any express train to Ottawa.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Here's a 2016 graph comparing cost and travel times of current service vs HFR vs HSR. Not sure how accurate this still is.


http://www.cat-bus.com/2016/10/via-t...regional-rail/

That graphic needs to get purged from the internet. It's outdated and irrelevant now. The best OTT-TOR travel time we'll see under HFR is 3.5hrs.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

More importantly people need to start understanding HFR as a stepping stone.

Lol. This is the best we could muster after many decades of studying and talking about HSR, so I think it'll be at least 50 years before we contemplate any significant improvements, and even that might be generous.

I'm seeing this proposal as the final product for our lifetimes, if it even gets built.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

30 years ago two trains a day ran on very uncongested freight tracks in 4 hrs.

HFR will provide 15 trains a day that all run as fast as existing Toronto-Montreal express trains today and faster than any express train to Ottawa.

Why was the freight track less congested 30 years ago? The manufacturing sector was much bigger then. Is it just oil?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

That graphic needs to get purged from the internet. It's outdated and irrelevant now. The best OTT-TOR travel time we'll see under HFR is 3.5hrs.

Is there an updated version of that graphic? I haven't found one.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

Lol. This is the best we could muster after many decades of studying and talking about HSR, so I think it'll be at least 50 years before we contemplate any significant improvements, and even that might be generous.

I'm seeing this proposal as the final product for our lifetimes, if it even gets built.

Once HFR gets built, upgrades and extensions become much more politically feasible. There's a lot more options for upgrades that can be finished in one term and get immediate political returns. And this is very much in line with experience elsewhere. HSR starts getting built much faster after the first line opens.

If we actually build HFR, I think it reaches the low end of HSR capabilities inside 15 years from opening day. Along with an extension to Windsor in a decade. And that's assuming the government doesn't just build the High Performance Rail system that the Joint Project Office has apparently recommended.

Originally Posted by acottawa

Why was the freight track less congested 30 years ago? The manufacturing sector was much bigger then. Is it just oil?

Fewer sidings. Substantially longer and slower trains. And some consolidation of traffic.

[Nowhere]

High frequency is the right choice. We have to consider that high speed rail is extremely expensive to build considering the need for full grade separation, which results in tickets sometimes as expensive as airplane tickets or even more.

High speed rail is something built to get high income people straight to downtown instead of ending up in an airport in a far flung suburb, while lower income people would be stuck with all the issues of Greyhound.

All the billions that would be spent on building high speed rail would be far more useful if spent on urgently needed new subway lines in Toronto and Montréal.

[Truenorth00]

There's an in-between solution here: Higher Speed/High Performance Rail

HFR is, in reality, a normal rail line running standard rolling stock on track that is not trade separated. HFR is basically a really long GO train. But it is possible to put in some upgrades that get it a near high speed standard without building all new fully grade separated corridors. This would involve some double tracking, some straightening, some quad gates at level crossings and some grade separation in high traffic urban and suburban areas.

We have no idea what the investment range is until the Joint Project Office report comes out. But we know that initial rough estimates for HFR were $4B for an unelectrified single track corridor. And we know from the Ecotrain study in 2011 that 200 kph diesel HSR was $14B for Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec City. That would be $17-18B today. So there's a lot of room between those two numbers. They could scale the investment to get the best return on passenger revenue and travel time. And this is what I have my fingers crossed for.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Once HFR gets built, upgrades and extensions become much more politically feasible. There's a lot more options for upgrades that can be finished in one term and get immediate political returns. And this is very much in line with experience elsewhere. HSR starts getting built much faster after the first line opens.

If we actually build HFR, I think it reaches the low end of HSR capabilities inside 15 years from opening day. Along with an extension to Windsor in a decade. And that's assuming the government doesn't just build the High Performance Rail system that the Joint Project Office has apparently recommended.



Fewer sidings. Substantially longer and slower trains. And some consolidation of traffic.

There was also less congestion in prior years because there were more alternative routes such as the Capreol to Coteau route to Montreal and the Newmarket sub between Washago and Toronto.