PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Outta here]

Wasn't planning on changing the subject but , 8/10 days ago , I heard a rumor
that Brandywine Realty Trust was " thinking " about the possibility of a re design
for 1919 Market . Whereas the new design might be 10+ stories taller and closer
to 500' ...... or did I just have too much to drink that evening .....

[Jelly Roll]

Edgewater, an apartment development, and a companion development parcel, have traded for roughly $113 million.

An entity affiliated with JPMorgan bought the Edgewater complex, according to commercial real estate sources. The property includes 270 apartments in a 13-story building and 20 townhouses at 23rd and Race streets. It was packaged with an adjacent site that has been approved for the second phase of Edgewater that would involve the construction of a 22-story building on an existing surface parking lot at the ramp off 23rd Street. That building could have 240 apartments.

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...artment-complex-sells-for-more-than.html

[br323206]

Originally Posted by Baconboy007

They're not going to build butt fuggly things like these are they?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Philad...!1s0x89c6b7d8d4b54beb:0x89f514d88c3e58c1

Or these:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.930797,-...3m4!1e1!3m2!1s4QnIBmvo09_NsFoo1n1a3g!2e0

Or these:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.924471,-...3m4!1e1!3m2!1s4b_Q4Kva0Nj2c1ePch9bBw!2e0

Or these:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.966334,-...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sqTTSQchKkI9FH0bpm5tGFA!2e0

Not likely. Those look that way because the trend was to build "suburban" looking houses.

Also, I should note that "affordable" housing in some neighborhoods fetch prices of $150,000 to $300,000. Much more than most of us think when we think of affordable housing.

It is more likely that they'll look like the houses that replaced the MLK housing projects in Hawthorne:

http://hiddencityphila.org/2012/02/little-park-long-view/

[ILovePhilly]

Originally Posted by Baconboy007

They're not going to build butt fuggly things like these are they?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Philad...!1s0x89c6b7d8d4b54beb:0x89f514d88c3e58c1

Or these:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.930797,-...3m4!1e1!3m2!1s4QnIBmvo09_NsFoo1n1a3g!2e0

Or these:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.924471,-...3m4!1e1!3m2!1s4b_Q4Kva0Nj2c1ePch9bBw!2e0

Or these:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.966334,-...3m4!1e1!3m2!1sqTTSQchKkI9FH0bpm5tGFA!2e0

I never understood why they couldn't just build freaking row houses.

=br323206;6499458]Not likely. Those look that way because the trend was to build "suburban" looking houses.

Also, I should note that "affordable" housing in some neighborhoods fetch prices of $150,000 to $300,000. Much more than most of us think when we think of affordable housing.

It is more likely that they'll look like the houses that replaced the MLK housing projects in Hawthorne:

http://hiddencityphila.org/2012/02/l...ark-long-view/

Thank goodness for your post in the middle of my response. It always baffled me how somehow public housing or low income or affordable housing had to be different and stick out like a sore thumb. I really don't like the term new urbanism but I think that a return to some tried and true old urbanism is best. The images in the hiddencity link are really nice. I would hope we wouldn't see something like those ugly west philly rowhomes, either.

[PhiLaw]

Don't know why the issuance of a $100 million bond isn't in discussion here. That's a lot of money that, along with interest, will have to be paid back. That means less money for schools, renewal, etc. I feel good swiping my credit card all day but hate myself at the end of the month when the bill's due.

[Baconboy007]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

Don't know why the issuance of a $100 million bond isn't in discussion here. That's a lot of money that, along with interest, will have to be paid back. That means less money for schools, renewal, etc. I feel good swiping my credit card all day but hate myself at the end of the month when the bill's due.

I didn't bring it up because it's an architectural forum and not a financial one. I know this logic probably isn't right but 1500 house at 150,000 a house = 225,000,000 even 500 houses at 150,000 = 75,000,000. Probably not how it's going to work out but if they make nice developments and get rid of blight I'm OK with it. Is it the best location or use of money...?

[Baconboy007]

Summersm, I hope this isn't what you were referencing:

http://www.phillymag.com/ticket/2014/03/...ve-entertainment-provence-resort-casino/

[PhiLaw]

Originally Posted by Baconboy007

I didn't bring it up because it's an architectural forum and not a financial one. I know this logic probably isn't right but 1500 house at 150,000 a house = 225,000,000 even 500 houses at 150,000 = 75,000,000. Probably not how it's going to work out but if they make nice developments and get rid of blight I'm OK with it. Is it the best location or use of money...?

Don't wanna argue about this, but this is not solely an architecture forum. It is a skyscraper enthusiast forum. Incident (I should say, antecedent) to that is development - of which financials play a huge part.

[Philly-Drew]

josef, I agree with a lot of what you said in the above posts. I've lived in Northern Libs for 15 yrs but grew up in SJ. PATCO has a few good neighborhoods on the route. Collingswood, Haddonfield, and even Westmont are all pretty cool. I'd say Collingswood is more NoLibs, and Haddonfield is more Society Hill with a splash of Old City shopping. Most people don't think about how Haddonfield is the only town on the Jersey side that Patco runs below surface grade, other than in downtown Camden.

I follow what's going on in South Jersey too, especially Camden County. Camden city has huge upside as well.

Wouldn't ya love to see something like this in Camden?

You know the DRPA would. You would get a segment of people that work there, live in downtown Philly, and reverse commute over the bridge every day! via car and PATCO. You know a place like this would run shuttles to public transport like CHOP and PENN do.

Regarding the state of cities in Jersey, don't even get me started on that. I don't have too many positive things to say about that. But, I do see Camden getting back into the game at some point in the semi-near future. Much of the investment there will come from this side of the river, or even maybe from the NY area, it won't be New Jerseians pulling Camden back up, it will be people that understand cities better.

Oh, and I enjoy looking at the pics of Camden and towns on the Patco line. Thanks!

[wcphil]

Longtime lurker here that finally found something before everyone else on here (I think, unless this is what Summersam was alluding to the other day). This could be a huge improvement for Market East if this happens (and demo by July? Sounds like it is).

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20...l_development_planned_on_Market_St_.html

[PhiLaw]

Originally Posted by wcphil

Longtime lurker here that finally found something before everyone else on here (I think, unless this is what Summersam was alluding to the other day). This could be a huge improvement for Market East if this happens (and demo by July? Sounds like it is).

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20...l_development_planned_on_Market_St_.html

Nice first post! That existing structure at 11/12 and market is my all time most loathed building in center city. Cringed a little when I heard John Dogherty was involved, but I will accept!

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by wcphil

Longtime lurker here that finally found something before everyone else on here (I think, unless this is what Summersam was alluding to the other day). This could be a huge improvement for Market East if this happens (and demo by July? Sounds like it is).

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20...l_development_planned_on_Market_St_.html

Nice and thank for the link! - there has been speculation on the girard block for some time - but this seems a little more definitive. Dont want to speak for Summer but this is different in that his speculation was an Office tower announcement

This may be some of the earlier renders

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=6420020&postcount=899

http://www.nreadevelopment.com/Projects/GirardSquare.aspx

[McBane]

Awesome news for the morning! And a heck of a way to come on board to this forum WC - welcome.

The article is a bit disappointing in that there are no renderings or numbers (floor count/height). But based ton this language and KidPhilly's first rendering link, it appears to be the same.

Planned are two new store buildings facing Market Street, lit by Times Square-style signs, that will be topped by 325 apartments (at perhaps $2,200 a month for a one-bedroom unit), with parking underground.

I'm also a bit confused - is this being done in phases? There is a lot of info and I'm trying to dissect what is actually happening. $500 million is a huge investment!

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=1100+Mark...17&vpsrc=0&panoid=TbW1_CrFRsm_Gz6RAKl9Uw

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by McBane

Awesome news for the morning! And a heck of a way to come on board to this forum WC - welcome.

The article is a bit disappointing in that there are no renderings or numbers (floor count/height). But based ton this language and KidPhilly's first rendering link, it appears to be the same.



I'm also a bit confused - is this being done in phases? There is a lot of info and I'm trying to dissect what is actually happening. $500 million is a huge investment!

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=1100+Mark...17&vpsrc=0&panoid=TbW1_CrFRsm_Gz6RAKl9Uw

Wonder the same thing about the phasing

It would seem the Market Street frontage (though 375 apartment could be only one of the two towers - maybe smaller one first) and would suspect retail frontage to Ludlow and down Ludlow as it seemed to suggest the Girard Bldg would be renovated as part of the first phase

Seemed like all chestnut development (and maybe the 2nd apt tower would be later phases)

A ? in the renders form my link - anyone able to make sense out of what the taller structure in the first image on the right would be?

[ILovePhilly]

Did they say 'no parking'??

New towers and no parking, it's like a dream come true!

This is overall excellent news, but I do question whether people will really pay $2,200 a month for a one bedroom at Market East. 2116 Chestnut is only 55-60 percent occupied at $1,900 (if you go on their website about 120 units are still available).

I know new construction is expensive but I do wonder whether the high-end is always the best decision. With more modest finishes I think units closer to $1,300 would fly off the market.

[Mappy]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

Nice first post! That existing structure at 11/12 and market is my all time most loathed building in center city. Cringed a little when I heard John Dogherty was involved, but I will accept!

Pretty sure this is the Girard Square proposal
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=209361
But the article might bump the proposal up to "somewhat likely" from "wishful thinking" in my mind. Good find

Im currently rooting for Market8 (if not none) to win the casino license. Market8 + Girard Square + Gallery renovations would be the biggest possible improvement Center City could ask for.... It would transition the shopping and buisness districts with the Old City / Tourist areas seamlessly and allow spill over use for visitors and residents to go between those areas.

....
PS. Loving all the Collingswood/ Haddon Ave love (my hood)... some Collingswood Redevelopment renders for you amusement
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1...-RbmSiefDElJmuqPxugpfPk/edit?usp=sharing

[Parkway]

Glad to hear that the project on Market East is moving forward.

On an unrelated note this a PDF explaining the affordable housing initiative, it looks like it won't be concentrated in Point Breeze and Francisville they'll just be included.
http://philadelphiacitycouncil.net/wp-co...ouncil-Building-An-Affordable-Future.pdf

[josef]

Originally Posted by Philly-Drew

josef, I agree with a lot of what you said in the above posts. I've lived in Northern Libs for 15 yrs but grew up in SJ. PATCO has a few good neighborhoods on the route. Collingswood, Haddonfield, and even Westmont are all pretty cool. I'd say Collingswood is more NoLibs, and Haddonfield is more Society Hill with a splash of Old City shopping. Most people don't think about how Haddonfield is the only town on the Jersey side that Patco runs below surface grade, other than in downtown Camden.

That's a pretty good assessment of those towns, ha. The train going underground in Haddonfield is interesting, I'd love to know the history of that since like you said it's the only one on the NJ side outside Camden where that happens.

Originally Posted by Philly-Drew

I follow what's going on in South Jersey too, especially Camden County. Camden city has huge upside as well.

Wouldn't ya love to see something like this in Camden?

Man, that was the ultimate tease the day it came out then nothing else was said about it. No idea what actually is going on with it, if it's realistic, someone's pipe dream, etc. Fascinating idea though.

Originally Posted by Philly-Drew

Regarding the state of cities in Jersey, don't even get me started on that. I don't have too many positive things to say about that. But, I do see Camden getting back into the game at some point in the semi-near future. Much of the investment there will come from this side of the river, or even maybe from the NY area, it won't be New Jerseians pulling Camden back up, it will be people that understand cities better.

I think "it will be people that understand cities better" sums up a good bit of the relationship between the city and the suburbs. Most people basically ignore the existence of those 77,000 people there, relegating it to a place where crime happens and that's it (regardless of the fact that their kids are going there to get high). Outside the few walkable places in South Jersey on the PATCO line, it's pretty much a gluttony of suburban sprawl, which obviously you know. You're right, the investment'll have to come from elsewhere, which is why it'd be neat to see Camden and Philly work together on projects if possible to bring investment to the area. I don't know how, since I guess they'd technically be competing, but.. Camden has more in common with Philly than the suburbs.

Originally Posted by Philly-Drew

Oh, and I enjoy looking at the pics of Camden and towns on the Patco line. Thanks!

Cool! I thought it was important to get some pictures of the Hotel Plaza coming down the other day. If there was ever any other major developments going on there in the future, I'd be there to get a few pictures.

[josef]

Originally Posted by wcphil

Longtime lurker here that finally found something before everyone else on here (I think, unless this is what Summersam was alluding to the other day). This could be a huge improvement for Market East if this happens (and demo by July? Sounds like it is).

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20...l_development_planned_on_Market_St_.html

Hey! Yeah! Welcome. I read this on the train. There are so many important parts to this article.

There's a lot to love here. A grocer. Leases terminated and demolitions already planned. A developer who's already done great work in the city. A real estate company that works with a very cool (at least stylistically) local company. Possible improvements to the 1100 block of Chestnut.

But I think this is the most important part in terms of development of Philadelphia as a world class place.

"I was amazed at what [young professionals] are willing to pay here, even in a building with no amenities and no parking," Kanne said.

Young people will pay to live in the city, duh. But they will pay higher rents for no parking. I really feel like it can't be overstated how important this is. We've been trending in this direction for a while now, with, say, the Comcast Center and how they had to add bike parking and how the underground parking is underutilized, and how this affected how much parking they plan for the new building. But the fact that they feel confident selling a building to investors with no parking because hey, young people don't care about that, I think signals that Philly is ready to start breaking up with its obsession with accommodating where people park their metal boxes on wheels.

Also, I hope they call it East Market at Market East.

[josef]

Originally Posted by Mappy

PS. Loving all the Collingswood/ Haddon Ave love (my hood)... some Collingswood Redevelopment renders for you amusement
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1...-RbmSiefDElJmuqPxugpfPk/edit?usp=sharing

Huh! Interesting, did you make these? Some of this has already sort of happened, with the Lumberyard developments near the train tracks and now a second phase coming up fronting Haddon Ave (just started a few months ago).