The Climate Change Discussion Thread

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Not that I am too unhappy with the resistance to coal mining, but that is essentially NIMBYism. The people who already have the stuff don't want their industry suffering because of a new one. Those ranchers don't give a shit about contaminating water up north or elsewhere.

The coalition that has formed to protect the Eastern slopes from the same fate as Elk Valley in BC has been truly inspiring imo. I've never seen anything like it before in this usually conservative resource-development-at-all-costs province. Maybe it is NIMBYISM but if someone wanted to poison your water and take away the resource that you need to make your living (water) why wouldn't you fight back? I will admit that there is a pattern though amongst many conservatives where they only seem to care about an issue when it affects them personally. For example there's no compassion for people with substance abuse issues until they know someone who dies of it. They hate gays until their kid comes out as gay. Etc. Etc. Just a general lack of empathy.

But in this case I won't criticize anyone who is fighting to keep Kenney from raping and pillaging our mountains.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

1) Do you believe in anthropogenic climate change?

I don't really care, the impact of possible changes in temperature whether from human causes or natural variation has been muted by technological and engineering advances and access to vast amounts of energy. It'll be far better to live in 2100 with lots energy and 3C warming then it is to live in 1900 with little energyh.

2) Do you support any policies at all to cut emissions?

I support that people should be allowed to use energy based on their conscience and budget to enjoy life as they see fit.

[Truenorth00]

...

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by accord1999

I don't really care, the impact of possible changes in temperature whether from human causes or natural variation has been muted by technological and engineering advances and access to vast amounts of energy. It'll be far better to live in 2100 with lots energy and 3C warming then it is to live in 1900 with little energyh.

You didn't answer my question. Try again.

Originally Posted by accord1999

I support that people should be allowed to use energy based on their conscience and budget to enjoy life as they see fit.

For dudes who fantasize about hate fucking Trudeau, you folks sure love to imitate his evasiveness. You could just be honest and say you don't want any policies at all to cut emissions.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by accord1999

It is weather, there was little smoke in 2019 and 2020 because temperatures were cool and BC barely had fire seasons. But since I've seen data on the highly variable nature of the last 40 years of fire seasons in Canada, I didn't shout out that this was climate, rather than what it really is, weather.

Where do you live? Since the early 2000's forest fire smoke has increased noticeably almost every single year in Alberta. To the point that it has basically become a standard part of spring / summer. The day my son was born in 2019 the forest fire smoke was so thick that you could barely see outside. The later part of the summer turned out alright but the spring was bad. Growing up in the 80's and 90's there was never anything like that. 2020 was decent but was clearly an anomaly as the trend in smokier summers is obvious.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by accord1999

I don't really care, the impact of possible changes in temperature whether from human causes or natural variation has been muted by technological and engineering advances and access to vast amounts of energy. It'll be far better to live in 2100 with lots energy and 3C warming then it is to live in 1900 with little energyh.

So you're fine living in a world that is largely uninhabitable in vast regions where millions of people will die of starvation, drought and natural disasters. A world where 40-50% of life on earth will vanish. You are a sociopath.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Where do you live?

In a world where his oil and gas portfolio is all that matters and he really doesn't give a fuck about the future. See above where he using the argument that the world is better off with 3 °C warming, because of energy poverty in 1900? The idea that we could may be try not to have energy poverty and that much warming is difficult for him because it might hurt his wallet.

I'm just curious if he's as honest with his kids about how few fucks he gives about the world they will live in.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

So you're fine living in a world that is largely uninhabitable in vast regions where millions of people will die of starvation, drought and natural disasters.

That was the world pre-20th Century, or even China before it got rich and had access to vast amounts of energy.

Much of the northern Northern Hemisphere wouldn't be able to support today's populations without natural gas and coal to keep warm in the winter; the forests would have long been cut down for heat.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by accord1999

That was the world pre-20th Century....

Ahhh yes. We once killed a lot of people. So it's only natural that we go back to killing lots of people.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Ahhh yes. We once killed a lot of people. So it's only natural that we go back to killing lots of people.

Except we won't, so long as we have lots of cheap energy for keeping temperatures comfortable (whether its heating or cooling), mechanized agriculture, motorized transportation and shipping.

On the other hand, making energy expensive does kill people today.

On average, there are 32,000 more deaths between December and March than the rest of the year. Many have perished because of the refusal of a society with abundant wealth and resources to provide for its most vulnerable citizens. An average of 9,700 deaths each year are believed to be caused by living in a cold house, according to research by National Energy Action (NEA) and the environmental group E3G. According to its figures, that is as many as those whose lives are cut short by breast or prostate cancer. While, sadly, we do not have the ability to cure all forms of cancer, we do have the means to ensure all have a warm home. Indeed, 6,900 of those deaths were linked to the 25% coldest homes in the country.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...nergy-spending

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Where do you live? Since the early 2000's forest fire smoke has increased noticeably almost every single year in Alberta.

My recollection is that the high smoke periods were primarily from the two big BC fire seasons in 2017 and 2018. Previously to that, there were infrequent periods of smoke similar to reported by the Herald:

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...s-over-calgary

2019 had some smoke periods with the big Chuckegg fire that started in May before rain made the situation and the rest of the summer better.

[Truenorth00]

Smoky weather. 2017. 2018. 2019. 2021...

Just the weather folks!

[Truenorth00]

The crops just stopped growing': Southern Alberta farmers say this could be worst season in 20 years

CALGARY -- Raymond, Alta. farmer John McKee says his dryland crops look pretty good from the road but up close, you get a much different picture.

“We have some canola that didn’t even bolt. It just stopped.” said McKee. “The leaves turned upside down, shielding themselves from the sun.”
...
According to the Agriculture Financial Services Corporation, prolonged periods of heat with little moisture are taking a toll on crops in several areas of the province.

If these severe growing conditions continue, some producers may put their crops to alternate uses rather than waiting for them to mature.

“I think this will be the worst crop in Western Canada in the last 20 years,” said Stephen Vandervalk, Alberta vice-president for the Western Canadian Wheat Growers.

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/mobile/th...ears-1.5507619

Guys I think some Brawndo is just what the plants need to get through the weather...

• Video Link

[O-tacular]

The first summer I remember being ruined by smoke was around ‘04/‘05 from the Castlegar fire. There have been many others since.

[Truenorth00]

Climate change: US-Canada heatwave 'virtually impossible' without warming

The searing heat that scorched western Canada and the US at the end of June was "virtually impossible" without climate change, say scientists.

In their study, the team of researchers says that the deadly heatwave was a one-in-a-1,000-year event.

But we can expect extreme events such as this to become more common as the world heats up due to climate change.

If humans hadn't influenced the climate to the extent that they have, the event would have been 150 times less likely.

Scientists worry that global heating, largely as a result of burning fossil fuels, is now driving up temperatures faster than models predict.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-57751918

Those silly alarmist scientist calling some warm weather a once in a thousand year heat wave. Don't they know it's all just weather.

[Hackslack]

According to the Smithsonian:

A new study shows that 84 percent of wildfires in the United States are started intentionally by humans or by human activity. ... The researchers found that humans caused more than 1.2 million of the 1.5 million blazes in the database. The cost of those human-induced fires is staggering.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...ans-180962315/

According to the government of B.C.:

On average 40% of wildfires in British Columbia are person-caused by activities such as open burning, the use of engines or vehicles, dropping burning substances such as cigarettes, or any number of other human-related activities that can create a spark or a heat source sufficient to ignite a wildfire. The most important factor of person-caused fires is that they are preventable.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/s...ristics/causes

I think the problem with respect to wildfires is the complete lack of respect humans have on the land, that cause a massive significant proportion of these wildfires.

It’s insane how much humans have intruded on the natural world and have unnaturally cause these fires. Its easy to blame it all on climate change, which certainly is a factor with the intensity, but in my opinion it’s the impact humans have simply igniting the fires that is to blame.

[lio45]

Sure, but obviously, all else being equal, it's easier for a human to start a wildfire (accidentally or not) if the environment is bone dry and hotter than ever. It's also harder to stop these fires and/or keep them under control. That's where you see the effect of climate change.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

Sure, but obviously, all else being equal, it's easier for a human to start a wildfire (accidentally or not) if the environment is bone dry and hotter than ever. It's also harder to stop these fires and/or keep them under control. That's where you see the effect of climate change.

Humans are so disrespectful that the lodgepole pines common throughout BC have evolved to require forest fires as part of their life cycle.

I don't doubt that climate change is a contributing factor but the fires aren't new, and they are started by lightning as well, not just humans. Decades of fire suppression have made the forests in the BC interior more fire-prone.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The crops just stopped growing': Southern Alberta farmers say this could be worst season in 20 years

And last year was one of the better seasons on record.

Canadian farmers produced more wheat, soybeans, corn for grain, barley and oats in 2020 as a result of favourable conditions compared with the previous year, while canola production was down from a year earlier.

Crop conditions were relatively dry across much of Canada throughout the year, with the exception of most of Alberta and northern Saskatchewan.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail...01203b-eng.htm

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by someone123

I don't doubt that climate change is a contributing factor but the fires aren't new, and they are started by lightning as well, not just humans. Decades of fire suppression have made the forests in the BC interior more fire-prone.

But that is generally the problem with climate change. It's an accelerant and multiplier.