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  #1  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2023, 7:20 PM
zahav zahav is offline
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Don't want to start a feud here, but is there a specific reason YQR got daily flights on Encore, and YXE got 3x weekly on a 737? The Encore is more seats overall, and of course daily. Westjet could have done it the other way, or even done a mix of both maybe, but they seemingly gave the better deal to YQR. I don't know anything about the local dynamics, so this is an open question for anyone who might have theories. Based on pax traffic, YXE is ahead. Although they are both similar in # of airlines and destinations, YXE appears to be ahead in this regard as well. And on metro population, Saskatoon comes out decidedly ahead (funny how they are ranked directly beside each other though lol out of 41 CMAs they are #17 and 18). So you would think WS would give the daily frequency and higher capacity to YXE, and give YQR the 3x weekly. I'm sure there is a fleet scheduling thing behind it since the cities appear quite similar in demand, just wondered if anyone had theories why WS did it this way? Or maybe it was just a six of one/half a dozen of the other situation, but that's usually not how route planning works...

I really wonder if Canada and China are going to get back to decent relations politically. Right now it's so bad for so many reasons, especially for a country like Canada that usually doesn't get dragged into diplomatic spats as much as somewhere like the US. But seems lately we are, with China and India namely. The Indian spat could still prove to be a big issue since it has to do with Punjab and that's very sensitive for both countries. But so far, it doesn't seem that explosive, and India has even resumed the visas to Canada. The fact that America has now publicly said the same thing about Indian agents being in their country planning assassinations, they (India) kind of backed down a bit on the outrage of Canada's claim. They still officially are. angry about it, but they kind of know it's true and other countries say it, so they're not pushing it. I only mention this because of air travel. Canada and India were wayyyyyy under-served in terms of non-stop flights, absurdly so considering the links. It took forever to get some respectable non-stop frequency, and from multiple cities. Right now the Russian war is the bigger problem, as it has cut all of AC's YVR-DEL flights, which they would certainly be operating if not for the airspace restriction. But we get 7x daily Air India 777, which is a nicer add for the airport in terms of unique airlines and planes. No clue about the service at all, I'm not speaking as a traveller, speaking as an airport enthusiast. And it's a daytime departure at 10:15am, and gets into DEL at 1:15pm, definitely more my preference than a 2am departure or something. But my point is that flights between the two countries did not suffer as a result of the spat (and fingers crossed it doesn't happen!).

But then with China, it's insane the effect the diplomatic frost has caused. Yes it was COVID that killed the flights originally, as there were still plenty of flights up until the shutdown in March 2020. And China remained sealed off and heavily restricted air travel up until very recently, probably the last country anywhere to reopen. So in people's minds, the extended pandemic curtailments made it seem normal to not have any meaningful service to/from China. And over the last few years, that was fairly true, no foreign city had good service to China, so everyone was kind of in the same boat. I even remember making a post about how YVR was relatively decent still for China service (relative to other European and NA destinations I mean). Yet it was only 4x weekly on AC to PVG, and 1x weekly each to PEK (CA), XMN (MF), TFU (3U), and SZX (HU). That was as much as we could hope for really, the rules were so strict.

But now you can see we are being iced out purposely. Not only were we removed from the approved destination list (which is huge, that basically governs where the entire Chinese local population can and can't go). We had the designation, then lost it. And if you read aeroroutes.com (any airline/airport fan has to read it, it's the most comprehensive source for routes on the internet), you can see tons of posts of Chinese airlines finally adding back capacity, on all of their carriers and to a huge variety of destinations around the world. The reopening seems to be happening swiftly now, yet Canada is totally left out. YVR used to be one of the biggest Western airports to China in terms of traffic, destinations, carriers. So to go from that to basically getting the same amount of flights as somewhere like Budapest is ridiculous. I know there's bigger factors at play obviously, but this is an airport forum and I'm going to rant because this is a big empty void in our air service, which is otherwise well connected. Just shows how bad Canada offended them, and/or how we aren't that important to them. The US has said way worse things than us. And Australia has had their share of public issues with China as well, but they patch things up, and stay on the approved list, and are getting tons of flights again. With 138 countries on China's approved list, Canada being excluded is that much worse. It's so weird for Canada to be the odd one out and having a big rift, while the US, UK, Australia, and basically everywhere but here are invited to the party. It sure challenges the old outlook that Canada is nice and diplomatic lol, obviously not always and not anymore.

But this is about flights, bring them back!! Pre-pandemic there was so much hope and possibility for even more flights than we already had, which was already a lot. People thought China service had nowhere to go but up... it literally did the exact opposite, and now we have basically nothing!
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  #2  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2023, 7:32 PM
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hollywoodcory hollywoodcory is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zahav View Post
Don't want to start a feud here, but is there a specific reason YQR got daily flights on Encore, and YXE got 3x weekly on a 737? The Encore is more seats overall, and of course daily. Westjet could have done it the other way, or even done a mix of both maybe, but they seemingly gave the better deal to YQR. I don't know anything about the local dynamics, so this is an open question for anyone who might have theories. Based on pax traffic, YXE is ahead. Although they are both similar in # of airlines and destinations, YXE appears to be ahead in this regard as well. And on metro population, Saskatoon comes out decidedly ahead (funny how they are ranked directly beside each other though lol out of 41 CMAs they are #17 and 18). So you would think WS would give the daily frequency and higher capacity to YXE, and give YQR the 3x weekly. I'm sure there is a fleet scheduling thing behind it since the cities appear quite similar in demand, just wondered if anyone had theories why WS did it this way? Or maybe it was just a six of one/half a dozen of the other situation, but that's usually not how route planning works..
As noted above YXE-MSP has been increased to daily for S24. (Presently only until June 30 / but I imagine it will get extended to the full season at some point).

Edit: To answer above it's still a 737. I can see in the OAG (you can view it here: https://www.flightview.com/flighttracker/ ). Should be bookable later today
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  #3  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2023, 7:31 PM
zahav zahav is offline
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Well I guess my question about YXE/YQR to MSP is a non issue now lol, hollywoodcory made a post while I was composing mine, and looks like YXE-MSP will be daily. Nothing is on the booking engines or OAG yet, so can't see for myself. Is YXE-MSP still 737, just daily? Or has it switched to Encore now that it's been upped to daily, so it would match YQR?
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  #4  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2023, 7:49 PM
zahav zahav is offline
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Awesome, thanks for the link! Lots of added capacity, I wonder if there's cuts to provide the added flights? Or did they just have enough slack that they could add that much without cutting?
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  #5  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2023, 8:32 PM
Justanothermember Justanothermember is offline
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I'm wondering when WS will make their anticipated expansion in YWG, as alluded to earlier this year. They have already established a new pilot and crew base in the city, but nothing further from them in months. YVR, YYC, YEG, YXE and YQR all getting routes expanded or added, but nothing for YWG. It really is odd and a bit frustration to witness.
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  #6  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2023, 1:34 AM
hehehe hehehe is offline
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Originally Posted by Justanothermember View Post
I'm wondering when WS will make their anticipated expansion in YWG, as alluded to earlier this year. They have already established a new pilot and crew base in the city, but nothing further from them in months. YVR, YYC, YEG, YXE and YQR all getting routes expanded or added, but nothing for YWG. It really is odd and a bit frustration to witness.
Don't expect the summer schedule to be finalised until sometime in February. Until then there'll be probably quite a few little adds. From YWG I definitely see YUL returning next summer.
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  #7  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2023, 3:09 AM
Justanothermember Justanothermember is offline
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Hopefully, we've been told of a fairly sizeable expansion for WS at YWG is planned, so I'm hoping it comes sooner rather than later.

Also, the WS schedule is showing all flights on Sunday, 21 Oct 2024 as being cancelled, in all cities everywhere. What's the go with that haha.
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  #8  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2023, 4:07 AM
hehehe hehehe is offline
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Originally Posted by Justanothermember View Post
Hopefully, we've been told of a fairly sizeable expansion for WS at YWG is planned, so I'm hoping it comes sooner rather than later.

Also, the WS schedule is showing all flights on Sunday, 21 Oct 2024 as being cancelled, in all cities everywhere. What's the go with that haha.
October 2024 is so far away that nothing on that date is actually cancelled, it's probably just a temporary glitch/mistake on the WS direct flights web page.

Speaking of WS expansion out of YWG the LAX/ATL additions are a fairly big deal so I think they're already on a roll.
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  #9  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2023, 9:00 PM
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hollywoodcory hollywoodcory is offline
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Now that its in the reservation system I've corrected these:

YYC-ATL - Increased from 10x weekly to 2x daily
YYC-DTW - Increased from 5x weekly to 1x daily
YYC-BNA - Increased from 4x weekly to 1x daily
YYC-DEN - Increased from 4x weekly to 1x daily
YYC-ORD - Increased from 4x weekly to 1x daily
YYC-SAN - Increased from 4x weekly to 1x daily
YYC-PHX - Increased from 2x to 3x daily
YYC-SFO - Increased from 18x weekly to 20x weekly
YYC-IAD - Reduced from 3x to 2x weekly (resumes May 20)
YYC-PSP - Reduced from 6x to 3x weekly
YVR-ATL - Increased from 8x weekly to 2x daily
YEG-MSP - Increased from 5x to 12x weekly
YEG-LAX - Increased from 7x to 9x weekly
YXE-MSP - Increased from 3x weekly to 1x daily

Additionally YYC-PDX gain 4x weekly 737 mainline flights

WS1505 YYC 10:30 - 11:19 PDX 737 4567
WS1500 PDX 12:30 - 15:16 YYC 737 4567

The 2x daily Q400 Encore flights remain unchanged for now, with now up to 3x daily scheduled on 4 days.
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  #10  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2023, 3:55 AM
nname nname is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywoodcory View Post
Now that its in the reservation system I've corrected these:

YYC-ATL - Increased from 10x weekly to 2x daily
YYC-DTW - Increased from 5x weekly to 1x daily
YYC-BNA - Increased from 4x weekly to 1x daily
YYC-DEN - Increased from 4x weekly to 1x daily
YYC-ORD - Increased from 4x weekly to 1x daily
YYC-SAN - Increased from 4x weekly to 1x daily
YYC-PHX - Increased from 2x to 3x daily
YYC-SFO - Increased from 18x weekly to 20x weekly
YYC-IAD - Reduced from 3x to 2x weekly (resumes May 20)
YYC-PSP - Reduced from 6x to 3x weekly
YVR-ATL - Increased from 8x weekly to 2x daily
YEG-MSP - Increased from 5x to 12x weekly
YEG-LAX - Increased from 7x to 9x weekly
YXE-MSP - Increased from 3x weekly to 1x daily

Additionally YYC-PDX gain 4x weekly 737 mainline flights

WS1505 YYC 10:30 - 11:19 PDX 737 4567
WS1500 PDX 12:30 - 15:16 YYC 737 4567

The 2x daily Q400 Encore flights remain unchanged for now, with now up to 3x daily scheduled on 4 days.
I think there's some more YVR changes based on the last week of June (compared to S23)
YVR-SAN - Increase from 3x to 4x weekly
YVR-MCO - Increase from 1x to 2x weekly
YVR-LAS - Increase from 11x to 13x weekly
YVR-SFO - Reduce from 11x to 7x weekly
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  #11  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2023, 9:20 PM
zahav zahav is offline
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The schedule doesn't extend into the rest of the summer yet, does it? From the reservations I see, it only goes to end of June? Which would be odd, increasing just before the summer officially kicks off and then cutting back for peak times? Guess we'll keep checking and see when/if it gets extended
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  #12  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2023, 9:23 PM
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hollywoodcory hollywoodcory is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zahav View Post
The schedule doesn't extend into the rest of the summer yet, does it? From the reservations I see, it only goes to end of June? Which would be odd, increasing just before the summer officially kicks off and then cutting back for peak times? Guess we'll keep checking and see when/if it gets extended
Not yet, the changes only go to June 29. I'm guessing this same schedule will apply in July/August at some point too.

In the past they didn't finalize the summer schedule until February/March.
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  #13  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2023, 12:11 AM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Once one of Canada’s busiest by aircraft movements, YKZ, is now officially closed. The closure had been delayed for years.

https://canadianaviationnews.ca/toro...am-now-closed/
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  #14  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2023, 2:04 AM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Once one of Canada’s busiest by aircraft movements, YKZ, is now officially closed. The closure had been delayed for years.

https://canadianaviationnews.ca/toro...am-now-closed/
First announced, what, like ten years or more ago?
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  #15  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2023, 6:10 AM
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hollywoodcory hollywoodcory is offline
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Also WS has its 789 scheduled on YYC-LAX from April 28 5x weekly.
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  #16  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2023, 1:52 PM
YYCguys YYCguys is offline
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Originally Posted by hollywoodcory View Post
Also WS has its 789 scheduled on YYC-LAX from April 28 5x weekly.
Is this a mistake? That seems weird and not a good use of a 787, especially in that wind down of sun flying and ramp up of Europe flying!
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  #17  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2023, 3:27 PM
msmariner msmariner is offline
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Originally Posted by YYCguys View Post
Is this a mistake? That seems weird and not a good use of a 787, especially in that wind down of sun flying and ramp up of Europe flying!
Is it possibly some slack in the fleet. With spring break happening around then and Mexico 787 usage winding down. Might be filling some gaps?
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  #18  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2023, 6:21 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is online now
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There is definitely slack in the WS 787 fleet, just like last summer, but a bit less, since the routes that are replacing LGW are all longer. So could be LAX was chosen for this very reason. It could also be that instead of rotating that spare frame to YYZ, a route that is massively crowded, they probably feel LAX will yield better. Could be either/or, or a combo of the two.

Last edited by thenoflyzone; Nov 27, 2023 at 6:34 PM.
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  #19  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2023, 6:43 PM
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casper casper is offline
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Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post
There is definitely slack in the WS 787 fleet, just like last summer, but a bit less, since the routes that are replacing LGW are all longer. So could be LAX was chosen for this very reason. It could also be that instead of rotating that spare frame to YYZ, a route that is massively crowded, they probably feel LAX will yield better. Could be either/or, or a combo of the two.
I wonder if cargo plays a role in this. They are more likely to be able to generate some revenue moving cargo between Europe and California.
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  #20  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2023, 8:43 PM
peytol peytol is offline
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I wonder if cargo plays a role in this. They are more likely to be able to generate some revenue moving cargo between Europe and California.
I thought about that also, but you would think it would make more sense to send one of the 737 freighters sitting around doing nothing instead.

Either way LAX is a market Westjet knows very well, so its not like its some huge risk they are taking, Just a way to keep a 787 moving.
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