TCH east of Nipigon (La route transcanadienne à l'est de Nipigon)

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I doubt the south would ever let us go. Our resources are funding their services.

So they will fight tooth and nail to keep the referendum from happening?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

So they will fight tooth and nail to keep the referendum from happening?

Unless we start rioting, nothing will change.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Unless we start rioting, nothing will change.

I was thinking about this: Why don't you guys get all your MPs in the north plus those in Upper Ottawa Valley to stage a massive protest in front of Queens Park one of these days (or whenever the weather gets warmer again)?

I wonder if there will be any gain from doing that.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Unless we start rioting, nothing will change.

I'd say not voting for the governing party might be a start - Sudbury, Thunder Bay, and the Sault (until recently) have been pretty reliable strongholds for the provincial Liberals. They make up a sizable bulk of the population of the north.

Nothing's going to change if you endorse the status quo. The rest of the ridings tend to go NDP (with the exception of Nipissing and the Sault currently).

The NDP would lose a lot of their seats should Northern Ontario separate, so I doubt they'd be for it. The question for them would if they'd like to be a big fish in a small pond (i.e. government of a new province) or a small fish in a big pond (usually the 3rd party in the Ontario legislature).

We'd have to vote for the Northern Ontario party pretty much across the board. Separatism in Quebec got a big boost when the PQ was voted in and moreso when the Bloc Quebecois was the official opposition at a federal level.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by wave46

I'd say not voting for the governing party might be a start - Sudbury, Thunder Bay, and the Sault (until recently) have been pretty reliable strongholds for the provincial Liberals. They make up a sizable bulk of the population of the north.

Nothing's going to change if you endorse the status quo. The rest of the ridings tend to go NDP (with the exception of Nipissing and the Sault currently).

The NDP would lose a lot of their seats should Northern Ontario separate, so I doubt they'd be for it. The question for them would if they'd like to be a big fish in a small pond (i.e. government of a new province) or a small fish in a big pond (usually the 3rd party in the Ontario legislature).

We'd have to vote for the Northern Ontario party pretty much across the board. Separatism in Quebec got a big boost when the PQ was voted in and moreso when the Bloc Quebecois was the official opposition at a federal level.

Please don't get me started on the NOP. What I have learned about them has convinced me never to vote for them. They are no better than the current parties.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I was thinking about this: Why don't you guys get all your MPs in the north plus those in Upper Ottawa Valley to stage a massive protest in front of Queens Park one of these days (or whenever the weather gets warmer again)?

I wonder if there will be any gain from doing that.

The MPPs for Sudbury and two Thunder Bay ridings are Liberals, so they're not going to protest their leader publicly.

The PCs have never really cared about the north beyond Nipissing - the win in the Sault might change things.

The NDP hasn't been in government since 1995 and they're the 3rd party. They'd be the most likely to do it (and their ridings would benefit the most), but they're also on the political margins, so the protest of 5 would likely be ignored, like the NDP itself.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Please don't get me started on the NOP. What I have learned about them has convinced me never to vote for them. They are no better than the current parties.

I'm not endorsing them - I want to stay in the province of Ontario. I'm just saying that for such a dramatic political change to happen, you'd have to reject the parties that advocate for the status quo (like the PQ win in the 1970s in Quebec).

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by wave46

I'm not endorsing them - I want to stay in the province of Ontario. I'm just saying that for such a dramatic political change to happen, you'd have to reject the parties that advocate for the status quo (like the PQ win in the 1970s in Quebec).

And pick a party that is just as bad as the current ones?

[wave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

And pick a party that is just as bad as the current ones?

I'm curious by what you mean as 'bad'. Either you like their policies and you should vote for them or you don't like their policies and you should vote for somebody else.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by wave46

I'm curious by what you mean as 'bad'. Either you like their policies and you should vote for them or you don't like their policies and you should vote for somebody else.

And this is how you "pick your poison".

Ps: By the way, so far I've never heard anything from either Brown or Horwath on twinning TCH.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by wave46

I'm curious by what you mean as 'bad'. Either you like their policies and you should vote for them or you don't like their policies and you should vote for somebody else.

I was in the party. Technically I was not able to actually leave it.

During the elections of the new executive, I had asked if it was going to be a vote and who ever gets the most votes win, or if it would be a process of eliminating the lowest one until someone gets over 50%. I was told "No stalling the elections"

There is much more, but I really don't feel like slinging mud.

[Innsertnamehere]

^lol, no. The north is extremely subsidized by southern Ontario. Low population densities with little economic productivity and high operating costs with poor environmental factors are not a recipe for wealth.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

^lol, no. The north is extremely subsidized by southern Ontario. Low population densities with little economic productivity and high operating costs with poor environmental factors are not a recipe for wealth.

Lol isn't that then an incentive for the north and south to separate? I see a win-win situation here.

For the north, they finally have their "autonomy" from the south.

For the south, that's a huge deal of money saved yo.
Also, I have finally learned that most southern ontarians won't have cared less, but after separation, the province will never again be bashed for leaving TCH as is. (In my proposal, the Upper-Ottawa-Valley part of Renfrew will be incorporated into NEON as well. As for HWY 7, unless usage increases, minor upgrades will do.)

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Lol isn't that then an incentive for the north and south to separate? I see a win-win situation here.

For the north, they finally have their "autonomy" from the south.

For the south, that's a huge deal of money saved yo.
Also, I have finally learned that most southern ontarians won't have cared less, but after separation, the province will never again be bashed for leaving TCH as is. (In my proposal, the Upper-Ottawa-Valley part of Renfrew will be incorporated into NEON as well. As for HWY 7, unless usage increases, minor upgrades will do.)

I can't see the south caring much.

Then again, I don't think it's a hot button issue in the north either. It has its vocal supporters, but considering that the government holds a number of ridings up here reliably, the status quo seems to be the order of the day.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by wave46

I can't see the south caring much.

Then again, I don't think it's a hot button issue in the north either. It has its vocal supporters, but considering that the government holds a number of ridings up here reliably, the status quo seems to be the order of the day.

I do understand that the power that be has invested a lot in the north's healthcare (among other things), but how is it that even the people there are okay with such subpar infrastructure and with the government delaying its upgrade (excepting 11-17 between T Bay and Nipigon, and 69 from 607 to 522), again and again?

Some will say, "The government doesn't have money", but either that's not the case, or the government uses deficit spending somewhere else.

Some will say, "Investment in Toronto infrastructure is priority". I understand - it's a big city (we might as well talk about GTHA here) and we need to get people to move from one place to another more quickly and more efficiently. But... aren't those in the north humans too? Shouldn't they get the same thing (although to lesser extent)?



A government that continually breaks promises (or delivers them almost reluctantly <at least this is the kind of inference I'm drawing>) to any place deserves to have its strongholds there dislodged.

[Loco101]

What would happen if the Ontario government decided it was going to shut down Highway 17 linking to Manitoba? Is there a law or an obligation stating that Ontario has to pay for and have the highway between say Kenora and Manitoba?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Loco101

What would happen if the Ontario government decided it was going to shut down Highway 17 linking to Manitoba? Is there a law or an obligation stating that Ontario has to pay for and have the highway between say Kenora and Manitoba?

Why would they even do that?

[Dengler Avenue]

Well, if Ontario government does do that for whatever reason, it's gonna be a perfect reason for Western Canada to separate.

[saffronleaf]

yup, best way to do this would be to have a political party like PQ or something that gets voted in. they can use that mandate to request a referendum. southern ontario won't be happy, but I doubt they will sacrifice democratic principles and norms like self-determination over this. while many people in southern ontario are indifferent to the north, few harbor any malicious aspirations to keep northern ontario as a colony. that's more due to indifference and the resulting neglect.

[Dengler Avenue]

Does any such party exist in the present time? Also how is it gonna get vote in Toronto then??