[Surrey] King George Hub | U/C - Page 10

Jebby · #**181** Posted **Sep 1, 2013, 12:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Found your post in retro-research, and I agree totally. It gives a "definition" to downtown," and as you say, leads up nicely to the taller towers. Also, that curved building on the angled coner has an almost "European" (dare I say that?) symmetry and elegance to it, the way it fits that intersection.

The renders you're talking about in the post above the one you quoted (which was posted 2 years ago) are no longer what the project looks like.

Prometheus · #**182** Posted **Sep 1, 2013, 3:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by skymaster

Excavation is part of the construction process.

No, it's not. Excavation is part of the destruction process. Excavation is the removal of unwanted material which is in the place where the building will eventually be constructed.

trofirhen · #**183** Posted **Sep 1, 2013, 11:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebby

The renders you're talking about in the post above the one you quoted (which was posted 2 years ago) are no longer what the project looks like.

I beg your pardon.
Do you happen to know where I can access a link to what the project looks like now?
/ Thanks

Jebby · #**184** Posted **Sep 2, 2013, 12:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I beg your pardon.
Do you happen to know where I can access a link to what the project looks like now?
/ Thanks

Read the thread: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=194968

It's only 8 pages long.

tybuilding · #**185** Posted **Sep 2, 2013, 6:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by skymaster

Excavation is part of the construction process. Excavation = Earthwork Construction.

That is what I think as well, but hey what does a civil engineer know anyways. We just love digging around in the dirt.

trofirhen · #**186** Posted **Sep 2, 2013, 7:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by canucks23

Can you elaborate on what you mean when you say the "rawness" of current Metrotown?

I mean that Metrotown still has a ways to go before the streetscapes are sleek and attractive. And although Metrotown theoretically has a "downtown" it SEEMS (from here) to be less-well joined to the street, znd more diffuse, although of course all this may change.

KG seems to have a more "Bellevue Washington" scale to it, more of a "city centre" feel, although I know Bellevue is a more affluent district. Just an opinion; I know many will differ.

trofirhen · #**187** Posted **Sep 2, 2013, 7:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebby

Read the thread: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=194968

It's only 8 pages long.

I did! Laziness on my part not having followed the thread consistently enough.

Prometheus · #**188** Posted **Sep 2, 2013, 10:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by tybuilding

That is what I think as well, but hey what does a civil engineer know anyways.

The conceptual distinction between excavation and construction is not difficult to grasp.

Excavation is a destructive process; it involves removing something unwanted, resulting in an absence. Construction, by contrast, is a creative process; it involves putting something positive into place, resulting in a presence. Construction is what normally (but not necessarily) takes place once excavation is complete or almost complete. Excavation is a precursor to construction; it is not construction itself.

Ask yourself this question: If a developer excavates a large hole, then stops, where is the building?

tybuilding · #**189** Posted **Sep 4, 2013, 12:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prometheus

The conceptual distinction between excavation and construction is not difficult to grasp.

Excavation is a destructive process; it involves removing something unwanted, resulting in an absence. Construction, by contrast, is a creative process; it involves putting something positive into place, resulting in a presence. Construction is what normally (but not necessarily) takes place once excavation is complete or almost complete. Excavation is a precursor to construction; it is not construction itself.

Ask yourself this question: If a developer excavates a large hole, then stops, where is the building?

I don't disagree with the meaning of the words but excavation is just part of the construction process and starts when a project gets go ahead and funding. It is part of the implementation process of projects. By the time excavation has started the project typically has full funding and is moving ahead. Sure there are cases where projects stop with a hole but is that much different than when projects stop with a hole filled with some concrete or are left with a concrete shell? It still is incomplete.

Some projects can just involve excavation. I can construct a retention pond by pretty much only excavating. I have created that retention pond as nothing was there previously.

GMasterAres · #**190** Posted **Sep 8, 2013, 6:14 AM**

Kind of a silly debate, honestly it makes sense for the purpose of this forum to label it under construction only when the building is physically under construction aka foundation being built. I'm fine with the explanation given originally.

Pre-construction is well under way. Got back from a road trip away 9 days today and took a look. Hole is much deeper and the Park Avenue site actually has "pre-construction" starting now looks like they are prepping to also start digging. Going to be a lot of construction around here kind of glad the digging is happening as we enter rain season. Less dust everywhere as a result though my wife is irritated with the fact at the King George development they seem to start construction at 5:30am with a lot of beeping coming from the excavators.

Can't entirely disagree they could probably wait until 6:30am and go an hour later as they seem to stop working around 4:30pm. Oh well.

VanCityDeveloper · #**191** Posted **Sep 11, 2013, 9:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prometheus

No, it's not. Excavation is part of the destruction process. Excavation is the removal of unwanted material which is in the place where the building will eventually be constructed.

I beg to differ. Its part of the construction process.

We carry a number for the demolition of the building that is separate from the construction of the building. The excavation process is factored into the cost of construction the building on a psf basis. Demolition is not.

Prometheus · #**192** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 1:43 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanCityDeveloper

I beg to differ. Excavation is part of the construction process.

No, it's not. Excavation is part of the project development process. A project has many stages, only one of which is construction. Excavation constitutes the stage which immediately precedes construction. Like clearing trees prior to building a cabin, excavation is the immediate antecedent to construction; it is not construction itself. Excavation is part of what must take place before construction can begin.

Although one almost always immediately precedes the other, excavation and construction are conceptual opposites. Excavation involves taking material away. Construction involves putting material into place.

A building cannot be under construction until a physical part of it is being put into place (e.g. the foundation, a cornerstone, etc.).

VanCvl · #**193** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 4:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prometheus

A building cannot be under construction until a physical part of it is being put into place (e.g. the foundation, a cornerstone, etc.).

Shoring an excavation is a foundation. It forms the permanent perimeter walls.

sryboy · #**194** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 4:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanCityDeveloper

I beg to differ. Its part of the construction process.

i agree.

http://origin-ars.els-cdn.com/conten...001956-gr4.jpg

Prometheus · #**195** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 5:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanCvl

Shoring an excavation is a foundation.

Shoring an excavation is a creative process and is a perfect example of construction. But the shoring wall is not the foundational wall. The shoring wall holds the earth back so that the foundational wall can be built; it is not part of the building itself. Nor is it permanent. When excavating beside an existing building, all the earth and pre-existing shoring is removed.

Example:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbo604

Facing north
Photo credit: me

When pre-existing shoring is removed, the building does not collapse because it was never part of the building. Thus, although shoring is a form of construction, it does not constitute construction of the building.

jlousa · #**196** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 5:46 AM**

We are not going to change what this site nor general opinion on u/c means. *mod hat on*
Now let's move the conversation back onto the project.

VanCvl · #**197** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 5:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Example:

When pre-existing shoring is removed, the building does not collapse because it was never part of the building. Thus, although shoring is a form of construction, it does not constitute construction of the building.

I could care less when this site considers construction to start but what people may not know is that a lot of the shoring form the first phase of the exterior walls. It's a two stage process with the finishing shotcrete completed as the parkade comes up. In fact, with permanent anchors or soil nails, the concrete is truly only a facing.

GMasterAres · #**198** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 5:59 PM**

*smacks forehead*

So they have been performing the first steps of demo on the Compass Point building beside. No photos but for much of the structure now windows are removed and you can see that many of the floors have been completely gutted. The base of the building where the liquor store used to be is also being pulled down now aka the building itself is being dismantled. They also seem to have expanded "destruction" hours and you can see workers demoing the Compass Point as late as 10pm every evening now. So the site is active basically 6am to 10pm now.

I'd imagine before the new year the building will come down entirely. The hole is also a lot deeper and they expanded it quite a bit to, if I look at the drawings submitted to the city, pretty much take up the space for the underground.

What I find interesting though about the project is that the commercial high rise directly East of where the Coast Capital building is being constructed which is slated as Phase C on the diagram, actually shares underground with Coast Capital. So it appears as though they will be building the full underground for both buildings then building the Coast Capital building.

I wonder if they will start construction on any of the other phases before Coast Capital is complete because it seems a bit strange to me at least that you would build the founation and underground for a building, then not construct the building itself for many years (Phase C would make me assume they would start Phase B first which is the commercial block cornered by Fraser Highway and KGB which has an existing medical building on it still).

Maybe the phases will be shifted.

Will be interesting to see.

sryboy · #**199** Posted **Nov 7, 2013, 7:53 AM**

.

GMasterAres · #**200** Posted **Nov 18, 2013, 6:54 PM**

This may be splitting hairs as they haven't officially poured the first concrete, but as of yesterday they have in my mind started "construction." They have several bases down and rebar in place. They've also taken down to the foundation and opened up some of it for the old Compass Point. The liquor store/pub building that jetted out of it is now completely gone and they look to be prepping/working on taking down the main building now.

They are also expanding the hole further east and south.