The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[urbandreamer]

I've been reading Teslas are expensive to insure. How much do you pay monthly? (As a new driver my insurance is expensive.)

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Doug DeMuro gave his car of the year award to the Rivian R1T. This car is picking up awards left and right (won Motor Trend Truck of the Year).

I am not surprised at all. Unlike perpetual tech interloper Musk, Scaringe actually loves cars and has a PhD from MIT's Auto lab. That's a guy you want running a car company. And that's actually more knowledge than most big auto CEOs today. I expect great things from this company.

[travis3000]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

I've been reading Teslas are expensive to insure. How much do you pay monthly? (As a new driver my insurance is expensive.)

$120/month, same as my old Honda Civic.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by travis3000

Add in the $400/month in fuel these things are consuming and you legit have people here paying over $1200 per month in cost of ownership on a new pickup truck. Yet here's me paying half that amount for my Tesla and Im some entitled rich top 1% snob? Give me a break.

I never said EVs were for the 1% {as I clearly stated 20% could afford it} and I certainly do not consider you a snob because you have a Tesla. Quite the opposite, I applaud you for choosing an EV when there are more affordable but polluting ICE vehicles available to you.

What I can't stand is the grotesque hypocrisy of these rebate programs. If you can afford a new car and an EV one to boot you get a healthy rebate but if you can't then you get squat. It is the antithesis of a progressive tax system. If Ottawa and some provinces were REALLY serious about tacking climate change in our transportation sector, then they would make these subsidies also available for all car owners who want to change their current vehicle from ICE to EV. This is also far superior environmentally than buying a new car as that EV still relies on coal/natural gas/oil in it's production and distribution. It is far better for the environment to reuse than it is to recycle.

What's more, such a program would actually be good for the Canadian economy. Right now most EVs are Tesla and so Ottawa, with these rebates, is effectively cutting Munk a personal cheque every time one is sold. This is to say nothing of the fact that these subsidies don't create any Canadian jobs. Retrofits of current vehicles from ICE to EV is the exact opposite. It creates local jobs and not just ones in Windsor & Oshawa but also Whitehorse and Gaspe. This also is repurposed into the other areas of both the national and local economies.

I am a strong supporter for EVs but EVs for everyone and not just for those who can afford a more expensive and new vehicle. If Ottawa can afford to financially assist some one making $50/hr than why can't they afford to help those making $20?

[travis3000]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I never said EVs were for the 1% {as I clearly stated 20% could afford it} and I certainly do not consider you a snob because you have a Tesla. Quite the opposite, I applaud you for choosing an EV when there are more affordable but polluting ICE vehicles available to you.

What I can't stand is the grotesque hypocrisy of these rebate programs. If you can afford a new car and an EV one to boot you get a healthy rebate but if you can't then you get squat. It is the antithesis of a progressive tax system. If Ottawa and some provinces were REALLY serious about tacking climate change in our transportation sector, then they would make these subsidies also available for all car owners who want to change their current vehicle from ICE to EV. This is also far superior environmentally than buying a new car as that EV still relies on coal/natural gas/oil in it's production and distribution. It is far better for the environment to reuse than it is to recycle.

What's more, such a program would actually be good for the Canadian economy. Right now most EVs are Tesla and so Ottawa, with these rebates, is effectively cutting Munk a personal cheque every time one is sold. This is to say nothing of the fact that these subsidies don't create any Canadian jobs. Retrofits of current vehicles from ICE to EV is the exact opposite. It creates local jobs and not just ones in Windsor & Oshawa but also Whitehorse and Gaspe. This also is repurposed into the other areas of both the national and local economies.

I am a strong supporter for EVs but EVs for everyone and not just for those who can afford a more expensive and new vehicle. If Ottawa can afford to financially assist some one making $50/hr than why can't they afford to help those making $20?

Im on board with much of what you said. The current program sucks I'll admit that. For what its worth I didn't get any subsidies for my car as the price of the car exceeded the limit. Oh well, I was due for a new vehicle anyway and had a choice to make... a premium $1.60/ litre gas guzzling BMW, Acura, Lexus or an EV. I decided to go Tesla , of which the cost per month is actually less than any of those other cars I mentioned. It's a fun little car to drive and I really am happy with my purchase. I almost forget what it feels like to get gas.

[Truenorth00]

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of economics. There's only one way to bring the price of EVs down in the used car market: increasing supply. And the only way to do that is to increase the purchase of new EVs.

Say a government has $5k to give for an electric vehicle grant. Is it better to give that $5k to a new car buyer who will in turn generate an additional used EV in 5 years, or to a used car buyer who will only use that EV for half its economic life?

[Nouvellecosse]

The funny thing is that if the intention is to help lower income people, offering a subsidy for used EVs would increase demand for them thus increasing the resale value since used buyers could then afford to pay more. But then that higher resale value is a subsidy for the "new" buyer who the funds are going to rather than to the used buyer. So the new buyer gets a subsidy from their original purchase and from the higher resale price they're paid when selling. Not sure that really helps the lower income people. It just means the same people would be buying the used EV as before but paying a higher price offset by the subsidy.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

The funny thing is that if the intention is to help lower income people, offering a subsidy for used EVs would increase demand for them thus increasing the resale value since used buyers could then afford to pay more. But then that higher resale value is a subsidy for the "new" buyer who the funds are going to rather than to the used buyer. So the new buyer gets a subsidy from their original purchase and from the higher resale price they're paid when selling. Not sure that really helps the lower income people. It just means the same people would be buying the used EV as before but paying a higher price offset by the subsidy.

I think part of the solution is public transit. So people don't need a car. Yes. some poor and rich people will still need cars. There are also smaller eclectic cars (some even made in Canada) as shown below. I think it comes down to multiple different options.

• Video Link
https://youtu.be/PE5DvTJg5ac

[SpongeG]

During this last snow storm here I saw a lot of Tesla's struggling in the snow, either no winter tires or they just can't handle snow? how well do teslas handle in snowy areas of Canada? is that why you don't see many in some parts of the country?

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

During this last snow storm here I saw a lot of Tesla's struggling in the snow, either no winter tires or they just can't handle snow? how well do teslas handle in snowy areas of Canada? is that why you don't see many in some parts of the country?

Are winter tires common in Coquitlam in the first place? It's common in NS for vehicles with "all-season" tires to really struggle in snow, especially on hills. To the point that they'll often get completely stuck.

From what I've seen Teslas don't seem to handle snow any worse than other vehicles.

I'm wondering about things like the recent cold snap in Edmonton though and whether temperatures that low would affect battery range.

[theman23]

Yeah, a lot of people in the lower mainland think they can get away without winter tires. Probably explains why we see so many more cars in ditches along the highway here. Especially true for the ghetto ballers who penny pinch on tires, and I'm pretty sure the Model 3 is the car of choice in this demographic.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by theman23

Yeah, a lot of people in the lower mainland think they can get away without winter tires. Probably explains why we see so many more cars in ditches along the highway here. Especially true for the ghetto ballers who penny pinch on tires, and I'm pretty sure the Model 3 is the car of choice in this demographic.

It depends on where you live; in the city proper you can get away with all seasons most years, but if you live on the North Shore or Surrey/Coquitlam you'll need winter tires more. I've always had all seasons and rarely miss more than a day or two of driving every year due to snow . . . that is driving only when necessary if in doubt, or using alternate transportation. And when you live on a street/area which isn't properly maintained (not cleared at all) by this lazy city, I'm not sure how much real winter tires would help anyway.

[travis3000]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

During this last snow storm here I saw a lot of Tesla's struggling in the snow, either no winter tires or they just can't handle snow? how well do teslas handle in snowy areas of Canada? is that why you don't see many in some parts of the country?

I live in Barrie, ON the snowbelt capital. Tesla's handle very well in the snow. Especially the LR model (AWD). The car weighs 4000 pounds, with a 1000 pound battery underneath the car. They are extremely grounded. Winter tires are a huge help like with any car. Compared to the Honda Civic I had before, the Tesla handles way better.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by theman23

Yeah, a lot of people in the lower mainland think they can get away without winter tires. Probably explains why we see so many more cars in ditches along the highway here. Especially true for the ghetto ballers who penny pinch on tires, and I'm pretty sure the Model 3 is the car of choice in this demographic.

Aren't winter tires mandatory in BC?

[WarrenC12]

Echo the above on the 3 doing well in the snow. I have winter tires too.

When it snows around Vancouver it's typically a shitshow on many levels. Streets aren't cleared, morons without experience, lack of the proper tires, all compounding each other.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Aren't winter tires mandatory in BC?

Outside of the Lower Mainland (going to Okangan or Whistler), I think only "M+S" are technically required, not full winter.

My Tesla's "all weather" tires it was shipped with were M+S.

[Truenorth00]

I have always thought it's crazy that winter tires aren't mandatory in all of Canada from December to March (inclusive) as a minimum. Aside from snow and ice, regular tires lose traction below 5°C. Really, they should be mandatory throughout the country for at least 5 months a year, if we're being honest.

[theman23]

In the lower mainland, not even M+S are required. Can we embed twitter posts on this forum?

https://twitter.com/411Regan/status/...613564416?s=20

In the dudes defence, they probably don't make winter tires for McLarens. But you'd think someone driving a $500,000 car would be able to afford a winter beater.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I have always thought it's crazy that winter tires aren't mandatory in all of Canada from December to March (inclusive) as a minimum. Aside from snow and ice, regular tires lose traction below 5°C. Really, they should be mandatory throughout the country for at least 5 months a year, if we're being honest.

Vancouver has plenty of ~5C and pouring rain weather over the winter. Normally it's not too much of an issue.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

There's only one way to bring the price of EVs down in the used car market: increasing supply. And the only way to do that is to increase the purchase of new EVs.

That policy is the same given by real estate developers and we know how well that has worked out. Increasingly supply to lower prices is only successful when you are increasing supply for goods that are affordable.

For EVs that means not only increasing the availability of new EV cars but also used ones and nothing will get them onto the market faster and more affordably than ICE to EV conversions. Such a policy is vastly superior to just subsidizing new vehicles not only economically but also environmentally.

By changing your car to EV from ICE, doesn't mean new/recycled steel which id done by coal or natural gas and distribution of the vehicles by oil. More importantly it will get millions of people into the EV market who could not afford to be there if they can't buy new. This would REALLY increase supply in for all regardless of socio-economic status. Also people who use heavily used cars tend to be of lower incomes and the older the cars, the more polluting so you would be getting the most polluting vehicles off the road faster.