NEW JERSEY | American Dream@Meadowlands (Xanadu)

[vandelay]

What an abomination. It looks like the product of a dystopian society.

[chris08876]

American Dream’s elusive promise

This is the holiday season, a time to suspend disbelief. Still, we are cautious about getting too excited that the American Dream entertainment complex is on track to open in the fall of 2018.

Don Ghermezian, one of the principals at Triple Five, the developer of American Dream, told Record Staff Writer Joan Verdon this week that structural steel is on the way and that construction will aggressively restart in the new year. A snappy video which can be found on northjersey.com shows the new images for the complex. The much-maligned exterior that has been compared to stacked shipping containers is gone. In its place are open spaces, exterior glass walls and high-end retail stores.

If all this comes to pass, it will look a darned-sight better than it does now. The problem is we have been here before. New Jersey governors and developers have come and gone and American Dream, once-called Xanadu, is still unfinished. Until the latest $1.15 billion public bond offering happens – it has been delayed because of a softness in the bond market – we are just not sure the thing too big to fail will be completed.

Billions of dollars have been sunk into this project which has morphed into a mixed-use complex, with a water park, ski slope and expanded retail. It could be a catalyst for more development around the Meadowlands. Certainly, it will help bring in tourists who may stay in area hotels. Tax revenue from local hotels is not meeting expectations to fully replace the funding Meadowlands' municipalities once received from a now-abandoned shared tax system, so tourist dollars are needed.

We want to believe locals and tourists will want to play and shop at American Dream, but the retail landscape around the Meadowlands has changed since the project was first proposed. Lower Manhattan has become a shopping destination in its own right between the Westfield mall inside the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey’s $4 billion transportation hub and the adjacent Brookfield Place mall. Hudson Yards is another Manhattan destination moving toward completion. So there will be plenty of competition for American Dream’s retail.

Granted no other destination will have indoor skiing or swimming, but the scale of American Dream will require an equally grandiose flow of shoppers and tourists. It is too late in the game to question if the original Xanadu was ever a good idea or if American Dream is the best option for the site. American Dream is the only option for the site. It must be completed.

Ghermezian told The Record, “Any project of this magnitude takes time.” Given the years of missed completion dates, that statement is a bit of understatement. But we hope this time the ending truly is in sight. In the spirit of the season, we want to believe.

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http://www.northjersey.com/story/opi...mise/95101430/

[C.]

I hate this thing. How many public and private dollars have been spent on this thing. Throwing good money after bad. I hope the Meadowlands just sinks into the city. Only good thing to come from global warming.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by CIA

I hate this thing. How many public and private dollars have been spent on this thing. Throwing good money after bad. I hope the Meadowlands just sinks into the city. Only good thing to come from global warming.

It will probably be the biggest tourist attraction in NJ from the day it opens. It's also good in that it's a transit-oriented development, and part of the recentering of the metropolitan area into the core. And it offers many things just not available elsewhere (indoor amusement park, indoor ski hill, mega-ferris wheel, etc.). It should draw a ton of tourists who otherwise would stick mostly to Manhattan.

And the retail demand has been huge. They're lining up practically every luxury retailer in existence. They even got Saks to relocate from Mall at Short Hills, which is one of the most profitable luxury shopping centers on earth.

On the other hand, yeah, why is a shopping/amusement/entertainment complex receiving public subsidies? The problem is that so many billions have been sunk into the complex, so it makes sense to finish.

[vandelay]

WNYC did a series on this project:

http://www.wnyc.org/story/mall-madness-part-one/

If you listen to it you realize it's even worse than you think.

[C.]

Originally Posted by Crawford

It will probably be the biggest tourist attraction in NJ from the day it opens. It's also good in that it's a transit-oriented development, and part of the recentering of the metropolitan area into the core.

When I look at the Meadowlands Sports and Entertainment Complex, the last thing that comes to mind is transit-oriented development. I'm aware there is a NJ Transit stop nearby, but I can't see transit gaining much of a share of the the model split with the car.

And it offers many things just not available elsewhere (indoor amusement park, indoor ski hill, mega-ferris wheel, etc.). It should draw a ton of tourists who otherwise would stick mostly to Manhattan.

Not a good thing, IMO. It's like tourists who come to Manhattan and take a bus to Woodbridge Center Mall. Why? Far cheaper places in the world if wanting to patronage a suburban mall.

And the retail demand has been huge. They're lining up practically every luxury retailer in existence. They even got Saks to relocate from Mall at Short Hills, which is one of the most profitable luxury shopping centers on earth.

Malls are in the decline in many places across the country, but this new one is suppose to be a success? Personally, it's a tricky place to get too by car, let alone by transit.

On the other hand, yeah, why is a shopping/amusement/entertainment complex receiving public subsidies? The problem is that so many billions have been sunk into the complex, so it makes sense to finish.

There is a reason why the private market wouldn't build this crap. If it ever does opens, I bet it goes the way of the Izod Center. If it ever opens.

[C.]

How Not to Build a Supermall: $5 Billion, 5 Governors, 3 Developers, and 15 Years
Chris Christie once called American Dream “the ugliest damn building in New Jersey.” Will it ever open?

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2...an-dream-mall/

Don Ghermezian wants to pitch us on the American Dream, but he has a few conditions. First, we’re not allowed to record his eight-minute presentation. Second, we can ask him only a few questions, at the end. Third, if they’re about his family, he won’t say much. “This is a $4.8 billion project that will be the center of the universe,” he says, promising we’ll be impressed. If not, “you’ll be the first ever to leave here without thinking, ‘Holy shit. These guys are incredible.’ ”

Ghermezian is speaking in the New Jersey Meadowlands offices of Triple Five, a family business that owns North America’s two biggest shopping centers: West Edmonton Mall and Mall of America. Triple Five are the incredible guys in question; Ghermezian is the company’s president. The future center of the universe is across the turnpike, a 91-acre tract of filled-in wetlands now home to a structure Governor Chris Christie, something of an expert on dismal spectacles, called “the ugliest damn building in New Jersey, maybe America.”

The first thing Ghermezian means for us to understand is that his family isn’t building a mall. Online shopping is killing malls; American Dream is one of only two in the country being built from the ground up. Its extravagant attractions make it “internet-proof,” says Ghermezian, who is in his 40s and wears a big watch and expensive sneakers. Beyond its 450 shops and restaurants, half of the 3 million-square-foot complex will be devoted to entertainment: a DreamWorks water park, a Nickelodeon theme park, a Legoland, a ski slope, an aquarium, a performing arts space, a movie theater, an ice rink, a miniature golf course, and a kosher food hall, all enclosed in a glass bubble.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by CIA

When I look at the Meadowlands Sports and Entertainment Complex, the last thing that comes to mind is transit-oriented development. I'm aware there is a NJ Transit stop nearby, but I can't see transit gaining much of a share of the the model split with the car.

Well it is a transit oriented development. Parking will be limited and expensive. Rail and bus service will be frequent. Much of the traffic will be tourists, who won't be coming in cars. The site is well served by transit, and just a few miles west of Manhattan. It's in the region's core.

Originally Posted by CIA

Not a good thing, IMO. It's like tourists who come to Manhattan and take a bus to Woodbridge Center Mall. Why? Far cheaper places in the world if wanting to patronage a suburban mall.

NYC gets tons of international tourists, and the U.S. has much cheaper retail than other countries, especially for luxury goods, which is why you see hordes of foreigners in the malls surrounding NYC, LA, and Miami. My in-laws (living in Germany) spend thousands on retail on their trips to the U.S.

Originally Posted by CIA

Malls are in the decline in many places across the country, but this new one is suppose to be a success? Personally, it's a tricky place to get too by car, let alone by transit.

This isn't a mall, really, and malls aren't in decline. Low-end malls are in decline, but high end malls (like Mall at Short Hills, Garden State Plaza, Roosevelt Field Mall, The Westchester) have never been more profitable. And the majority of revenues are non-retail uses.

Originally Posted by CIA

There is a reason why the private market wouldn't build this crap. If it ever does opens, I bet it goes the way of the Izod Center. If it ever opens.

The private market did build this, but NJ taxpayers have subsidized the loans, largely because the financing required this (and because Christie is an idiot, but that's another story). Just because a project doesn't happen without taxpayer subsidies doesn't mean it's an automatically unworthy project.

And, in any case, the subsidies already occurred. The important thing now is to finally open the complex and get the economic boost.

[Dac150]

Originally Posted by Crawford

NYC gets tons of international tourists, and the U.S. has much cheaper retail than other countries, especially for luxury goods, which is why you see hordes of foreigners in the malls surrounding NYC, LA, and Miami.

Do you really think though that tourists will depart Manhattan in order to shop at a New Jersey mall? Consider that Hudson Yards - in close proximity to Penn - will soon offer a wide variety of retail and dining options - among other attractions. Why leave the city when everything one needs and wants is within walking distance? Unless there's a sporting event, I don't see tourists gravitating to the Meadowlands solely for a shopping or dining experience.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Dac150

Do you really think though that tourists will depart Manhattan in order to shop at a New Jersey mall?

They already do.

Been to Jersey Gardens lately? How about Garden State Plaza? Mall at Short Hills? These places are crawling with foreign tourists, who come by bus, car service or Uber to nearby malls. They even go to Woodbury Common, which must be at least 40 miles from Manhattan.

There are so many foreign tourists at Jersey Gardens, I don't think that mall would even exist without the Manhattan tourist market in proximity. It seems almost purposely designed to attract the Brazillian and British and Chinese shoppers.

Granted, I don't exactly get it. Who wants to visit a foreign country and then waste time at a mall, just to save a few bucks? But, trust me, people do it. My wife does it, my in-laws do it.

Originally Posted by Dac150

Consider that Hudson Yards - in close proximity to Penn - will soon offer a wide variety of retail and dining options - among other attractions. Why leave the city when everything one needs and wants is within walking distance?

Because 1. Hudson Yards will be a luxury mall, not a suburban megacenter, 2. NJ is cheaper with lower sales tax and 3. American Dream will be primary non-mall uses, and such uses won't exist in Hudson Yards.

It isn't competing with Hudson Yards, at all, which will attract Manhattanites and some higher end tourists. American Dream will be more for families with kids and the tour bus crowd. The Cheesecake Factory/Dave and Busters crowd isn't going to be attracted to the chef-driven restaurants and luxury boutiques at Hudson Yards.

Here are some of the uses at American Dream:

Indoor ice rink (NHL-sized).
Nickelodeon Universe indoor theme park.
DreamWorks-themed Water Park – A year-round indoor water park.
Movie theater – 26 screen movie theater with outdoor lounge overlooking Manhattan.
Concert hall – 2,400–3,000 seat performing arts and concert venue.
Indoor ski slope.
Miniature golf course
Lucky Strike bowling alley.
Legoland Discovery Center.
Sea Life aquarium.

Originally Posted by Dac150

Don't see tourists gravitating to the Meadowlands solely for a shopping or dining experience.

There are hordes of foreign tourists in these suburban malls already. I have no doubt they will gravitate to a closer-in mall, with direct rail to Manhattan, with attractions not available in any other shopping center in the Americas.

[Dac150]

Interesting - I haven't been a NJ resident for years and therefore haven't recently patronized any of the malls, so I'll take your word for it. I find it intriguing though that tourists would pay to commute in and out of Manhattan in order to shop at a suburban mall in NJ or LI or wherever.

I hadn't realized they plan on cramming all of those attractions under one roof. Do you know if the new concert hall will mean the demolition of the IZOD Center?

[C.]

Work on Meadowlands mall has stalled and developer won't answer questions
http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/2...epage-featured

EAST RUTHERFORD -- Work on the American Dream mall has been just about non-existent, months after it was reported in December that construction had stalled.

Cranes were at a standstill and a hardhat could not be found at the American Dream mall site in East Rutherford. Work was been stalled since December.

Borough Mayor James L. Cassella says he has been in the dark about the billion-dollar mega-project, but is hopeful construction will start again soon.

"I haven't seen much, maybe a few people, a couple of cars parked," said Cassella last week. "There aren't a lot of people down there."

[Crawford]

The developers haven't even had the bond offering yet, so it isn't clear why they would expect construction at this time.

And construction hasn't been stalled since December. It hasn't moved since summer, and was never expected to restart until after the bond offering (which can't even occur until there's a public vote on the offering).

[chris08876]

Pic by me. Taken today.

[C.]

http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/02/news...lls/index.html

Malls are doomed: 25% will be gone in 5 years

Store closings and even dead malls are nothing new, but things might be about to get a whole lot worse.

Between 20% and 25% of American malls will close within five years, according to a new report out this week from Credit Suisse. That kind of plunge would be unprecedented in the nation's history.

In 1970 there were only 300 enclosed malls in the U.S., and now there are 1,211 of them. In fact, despite the recent turbulence in the retail industry, the number of malls open has actually edged higher every year.

If the analysts at Credit Suisse are right, that trend line about to turn -- sharply -- in the other direction.

The reasons are nothing new. People are shopping online more than ever, and that trend is expected to keep growing. Foot traffic at malls has been on the decline for years.

The report estimates that as malls close, online sales will grow from 17% of retail sales today to 35% by 2030.

There are also, quite simply, too many stores after years of new mall construction caused a retail bubble.

Excellent time for a venture capital fund to pick up these failing malls and re purpose them into mixed-use residential developments, office parks, industrial parks, etc...

[eleven=11]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Pic by me. Taken today.

great pic of cranes
the maps are new on wiki/google
you can see those same cranes

[Crawford]

The bond offering was completed, and this project is now fully financed, BTW. 75% leased.

[C.]

A little off topic, Amazon is now worth close to $500 billion and internet sales continue to take a bigger bite at bricks and mortar stores. I wonder how the retailers at the WTC Hub are doing? The only one I see doing any real business is the Apple store. IF American Dream is built, how would this impact other area malls since forecasts are calling for at least 20 percent to be out of business within the next 5 years.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by CIA

IF American Dream is built, how would this impact other area malls since forecasts are calling for at least 20 percent to be out of business within the next 5 years.

American Dream is mostly non-retail uses, so probably should have limited impact on other nearby malls. It's more of an entertainment complex, with amusement parks, ski hills, ferris wheel, water park, etc. It's competition is more Great Adventure, HersheyPark and the like.

The NY area is underretailed compared to the rest of the country and never had the massive explosion of suburban retail in the 80's and 90's. I'm sure places like Garden State Plaza and Mall at Short Hills will be fine. If they aren't fine, then that's OK too, that's capitalism.

[eleven=11]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The bond offering was completed, and this project is now fully financed, BTW. 75% leased.

any info-news about Miami Mall/Park?
anybody know how to post wiki map screen shots?