Community Development - Blatchford

[Policy Wonk]

Helicopters lack the range and speed of conventional aircraft and are much more expensive to operate. And it isn't strictly a matter of medivac - although that comes into it.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

Helicopters ... are much more expensive to operate.

Well so is your precious airport.

[MalcolmTucker]

If they allowed more planes to fly there, it wouldn't be an expense. It is an argument that was used for years against the city centre airport here in Toronto - it costs money, so close it. Now the airport helps generate a surplus of $5 million a year for the port authority, and has freed the city of subsidizing its other port operations.

Limiting service to small planes that need to charge so much to break even reduces traffic to a point where per passenger charges and landing fees don't cover the airport anymore. So big was the threat from 19 person planes, it was reduced to 10, then to none (from south of the city).

Free the airport and let it compete. The only way to really do it would be for the federal government to split the airport authority. The muni airport authority would then have to sue the city for breaching the lease contract to open the second runway back up.

[feepa]

the runways on the Toronto Island Airport and related approaches don't traverse the CDB and downtown. Those runways and related approaches are over the lake.

[feepa]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

The routes Google spat out for me nobody in their right mind would take, which are via either Centre Street or Edmonton Trail rather than Deerfoot to Memorial - which takes about ten minutes from the ex-Quikair \ PeaceAir facility, I drive it regularly.

It is patently dishonest to say that the current slot utilization reflects on the potential of YXD when Edmonton Airports has banned virtually all the service that once operated from there. YXD didn't fail in the market place it was starved to death by Edmonton Airports. It isn't that nobody cares - everyone I deal with in Edmonton has been bitching about this for the last five years straight.

And the "few oil and pipeline cowboys" are the people who keep the lights on in Edmonton, their interests shouldn't be taken lightly. Without them both Calgary and Edmonton are Saskatoon.

Route via memorial = 15 minutes. Much different time experienced if you set the travel time between 7am-6pm.
Facts is more people fly to/from fort mcmurray out of EIA. Why do we need such duplication in services for these 'few oil and pipeline cowboys' over the betterment of this city? Their interests can be taken care of via the International airport, or other regional airports.

The fact you keep ignoring or denying this fact shows you have little care about this city.

[MalcolmTucker]

over the betterment of this city?

I have a problem with this statement - there is no plan to make the city better, or any reason that closing the muni would. You trade a potential asset for brown field land. Is there any reason this brownfield land would be anymore desirable than lets say the quarters? The area around north downtown?

As for the flight paths and height overlays - where are the buildings just edging to go over that height? Aren't only two close? Hypothetical renderings and calls to intice investors don't really count. Dropping the height restriction is really going to cause a skyscraper renaissance...

[MrOilers]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

You trade a potential asset for brown field land.

Hundreds of acres of centrally-located empty land is more of an asset than using it as an airfield, which is low-use industrial land even if it is busy.

Is there any reason this brownfield land would be anymore desirable than lets say the quarters? The area around north downtown?

Not really the land itself, but the quarters has planes buzzing over it constantly because it is directly in the line of the busy CCA runway. Close the airport completely, and that land becomes more desirable for two reasons - no height restrictions, and no low-flying planes buzzing overhead.

Removing the airport makes downtown land more desirable.

[feepa]

^ killing two problems with one stone you mean Mr Oilers? I like it. Closing the airport will help the quarters along, and closing the airport will help NAIT expand, and a green walkable urban community can be built there too.

33 international firms all jumped on the opportunity to present there ideas for a redeveloped city center airport, 5 finalists have been selected. Can't wait to see these plans!

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by feepa

Route via memorial = 15 minutes. Much different time experienced if you set the travel time between 7am-6pm.
Facts is more people fly to/from fort mcmurray out of EIA. Why do we need such duplication in services for these 'few oil and pipeline cowboys' over the betterment of this city? Their interests can be taken care of via the International airport, or other regional airports.

The fact you keep ignoring or denying this fact shows you have little care about this city.

It has never taken me more than ten minutes during the day, I have never driven it any other time.

There was once more and potentially more to YXD than flying oilfield workers to Fort McMurray. The oilfield likes YXD naturally for numerous reasons but that is just a small part of what YXD can be. It is an ideal point for offering regional air service and strictly terminating regional service is of no detriment to YEG.

[Policy Wonk]

Envision Edmonton has the 78,000 signatures!

[bulliver]

Good for them. At least 10% will be thrown out as invalid. Even if they do get 78000 valid sigs all it will do is cost the taxpayers $1,000,000 for a referendum that will fail. Congrats! Getting sheeple to sign a paper because they've been harassed by someone telling them 'people are going to die' and other such bullshit is a far cry from getting them out to vote...

What a waste of time and money...

[Black Star]

^^I expect the court will get involved in this petition as the rules say they had 2months to dispute our Council's decision to close down the airport operations.

78000 people?....if I was a betting man i would say less that 25% of these people who signed the petition will actually vote period...so there is no way they can check a box regarding this issue.

Why do you have such a vested Interest in Edmonton's Airport situation?

[Policy Wonk]

This is the only place I have seen significant anti-airport sentiment, I don't know anybody in Edmonton who favors closing the airport. I think the referendum has a high probability of success. And of those with especially strong feelings I would think most of them would fall on the pro-YXD side of the tally.

[Policy Wonk]

I expect the court will get involved in this petition as the rules say they had 2months to dispute our Council's decision to close down the airport operations.

Mandel said today he wouldn't fight the plebiscite.

Originally Posted by BLACK STAR

Why do you have such a vested Interest in Edmonton's Airport situation?

Fighting NIMBY's and real estate schemers who see every urban railyard, airport and waterfront as a place to build condos is my life. Infrastructure is there for a reason - just because somebody thinks they can put it to better use is not a valid reason to abandon such infrastructure.

[Black Star]

One big problem however,
s. 233(2) "A petition under section 232 requesting an amendment or repeal of a bylaw or resolution is not sufficient unless it is filed with the chief administrative officer within 60 days after the day on which that bylaw or resolution was passed."

There are rules about when a petition can be filed for a reason. These are not loop-holes - they are laws, passed by the legislature. How is it fair if Council or the City accepts the petition. Clearly it is NOT legal

Also......
I find it ironic that enough public support could be mustered to pay to keep an obsolete airport open but not supporting something progressive like the Edmonton Arena District. Both of them would likely involve the same public expenditure.

[MalcolmTucker]

Closing the muni will involve far more expenditure than keeping it open - as it stands now isn't it only cross subsidized by EIA, not directly by tax payers? (Even then, that amount will be on an order of magnitude lower than the public support for redevelopment)

Plus, the muni could likely support itself if the airport authority let the airport operate even to the extent the last plebiscite restricted it to.

[MrOilers]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

This is the only place I have seen significant anti-airport sentiment,

You need to get out more.

[MrOilers]

Originally Posted by BLACK STAR

There are rules about when a petition can be filed for a reason. These are not loop-holes - they are laws, passed by the legislature. How is it fair if Council or the City accepts the petition. Clearly it is NOT legal

I already plan to write to all city councillors and the mayor, urging that they only accept the petition if they have to legally, otherwise let their decision stand.

[MrOilers]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

Fighting NIMBY's and real estate schemers who see every urban railyard, airport and waterfront as a place to build condos is my life. Infrastructure is there for a reason - just because somebody thinks they can put it to better use is not a valid reason to abandon such infrastructure.

Do you think that Edmonton's downtown would be better off with the old railyards and slaughterhouses than where Grant MacEwan university sits?

[Policy Wonk]

There was no underhanded scheme to secure the land on which Grant MacEwan was built, CN donated land that they were no longer using.

YXD has been sabotaged as a matter of policy by Edmonton Airports since their creation. Left to its own devices the airport would be used by millions of passengers every year.