Atlanta Beltline

[Fiorenza]

Dante, I'm not disagreeing with your map or observations about it, but you're talking Democratic primaries and caucuses here, not the general election.

[dante2308]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

I know Obama people would like to think Obama has a chance in Georgia, but he doesn't. Not even with Barr in the mix. Not even with blacks turning out in disproportionate numbers. Those Obama people don't know Georgia very well. Georgians turn out lightly for primaries and heavily for general elections. Don't expect many white Georgians to vote for Obama, and a large part of it is racial. Lest you think ME a racist, know I'd gladly vote for Herman Cain for governor and J.C. Watts for President if they were on the ballot. But many white Georgians wouldn't. However, they have elected blacks to statewide office, but only if those blacks come across as basically non-partisan. That's not gonna happen at the presidential level.

I don't personally think Georgia is going to turn blue, I was responding to Andrea. I think you need to step off your racial arguments. I am a realist here in all respects. I know how much of the country is racist, but it seems you are expanding racism in the south to the entire country. The entire country is not so against a black person as you have shown that you believe. Yes Obama can win white states. He can even turn red states blue with only the white vote. Just not everywhere. Colorado is the best example of this.

[dante2308]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

Dante, I'm not disagreeing with your map or observations about it, but you're talking Democratic primaries and caucuses here, not the general election.

I was showing that the Bradly effect did not dominate the primaries remember? I would love to talk about the general, but apparently I need to have evidence of everything before you will even listen to me.

For the record, you have disagreed with all of my observations about the map and the primaries...

[Fiorenza]

It's realistic, and important to understand the racial aspect of the vote. It will affect the outcome. And lest we just focus on white racists, let's remember that Obama will pull an even larger percentage of the black vote than Kerry received in 2004. But you know what? McCain will not automatically concede any of those votes to Obama.

[dante2308]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

Then let's call it the Liberal State Effect! Also, keep in mind if a disproportionate number of a 10% subgroup turn out to vote in one party's primary for one candidate, it can have a strong effect.

You edited this.

Now I need to respond:

In Wisconsin, Obama won the white vote by a ten point margin. the number of black people that voted was too small to measure. So the white "subgroup"put him over the top buddy. For the record, Wisconsin is a swing state, not a liberal one. If it's in the back of your mind, Obama won the rural and urban vote by the same margin.

[Fiorenza]

I was showing that the Bradly effect did not dominate the primaries remember?

No, the Bradley Effect didn't dominate the primaries, but it seems to had a measurable effect if one compares the overall primary results to the caucuses.

[Fiorenza]

I just don't want you to be too disappointed

[dante2308]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

It's realistic, and important to understand the racial aspect of the vote. It will affect the outcome. And lest we just focus on white racists, let's remember that Obama will pull an even larger percentage of the black vote than Kerry received in 2004. But you know what? McCain will not automatically concede any of those votes to Obama.

Black racism wont affect the election. White and Hispanic racism will. I guess this just isn't the same country you grew up in. A majority of Americans are NOT against electing a black candidate as they were just 10 years ago.

[gttx]

Fiorenza must have already seen this video, but here you go:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rufWDdAX3C4&feature=related

"No matter what he says or promises, remember that he is evil and a liar."

I also like this one:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Rku2a4vWO6g

All based on sound logic, of course...

[dante2308]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

No, the Bradley Effect didn't dominate the primaries, but it seems to had a measurable effect if one compares the overall primary results to the caucuses.

The caucus states were usually small rural white states that Obama was strong in to begin with. Idaho went 75% for him for example. The primary states near caucus states showed similar results if one compares Washington(a caucus) and Oregon(a primary). Obama won both states by over 17 points. Vermont's primary was a 20 point win and Maine's caucus was a 19 point win.

You have to compare by similar demographics and region especially if you are going to throw out the entire south like you just did. All states cited are over 94% white and no they are not 6% black.

[Fiorenza]

Black racism wont affect the election.

I hope it doesn't affect the outcome!

[Fiorenza]

gttx, such vids are of course stupid, but they're part of an election campaign.

[dante2308]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

I hope it doesn't affect the outcome!

What the hell? You don't mind the other types of racism?

[Fiorenza]

To be brutally honest with you, I hope the Bradley Effect effects the outcome. Just like you hope a disproportionally large black turnout effects the outcome. Are we racist to think that? Not necessarily.

[dante2308]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

To be brutally honest with you, I hope the Bradley Effect effects the outcome. Just like you hope a large black turnout effects the outcome. Are we racist to think that? Not necessarily.

You think I hope a large black turnout affects the outcome and you hope white people wont elect a black person? I do not want racism to be so much of a problem that it embarrasses America and sets us back another decade. I don't really care what the black turnout is and I would hope that it isn't abnormal so that people like you don't run around discounting an entire election because black people were involved.

So you do support white racism. So lets sum this up.

You support and encourage racist white people
You think Obama should not be elected because he is black (not the only reason, but one of them)
You don't think Obama is worthy or capable of being president or wining an election
You disagree with every point Obama has ever made and agree with everything McCain has ever said (except Anwar)

No I will not call you racist. I'm not allowed to anymore.

[Fiorenza]

Oh, call me a racist. I've been called everything on the internet at one time or the other. Taze Me, Bro!!

Before this election is over, every Republican will be called racist, Uncle Tom, corrupt, old, etc. But the Dems will be lily-pure!

[dante2308]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

Oh, call me a racist. I've been called everything on the internet at one time or the other. Taze Me, Bro!!

Before this election is over, every Republican will be called racist, Uncle Tom, corrupt, old, etc. But the Dems will be lily-pure!

I didn't call you a racist because every time you call a racist person racist, they turn back and complain like the label is unfair and overused or spin off into something about all republicans being called racist or something. Geez, the denial. I cannot believe you would support racism though. It is like you don't even care about the destruction it has caused or how ugly of a thing it is.

I guess the way around it is a simple question. Do you think you are inclined to be heavily influenced by the color of a person's skin in your opinion of them?

While you ponder that, I don't think anyone has ever called me a racist. In fact I don't think I've really even been called names at all.. .weird.

[Fiorenza]

No, but I won't convince you - because you're a racist.

[dante2308]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

No, but I won't convince you - because you're a racist.

Heh there it is hah. You know, if it helps us communicate better, I don't dislike racists at all. I don't agree but I just accept them you know? I have many friends who started off hating black people or hispanics or gays or whatever. I'm not a product of American politics, I could give a damn about all the bad blood. I'll stop using the word racist though cause people find it offensive.

[Fiorenza]

That's fine by me too.