The armpitization of neighborhoods and streets

[MolsonExport]

I was thinking about Wharncliffe Rd the other day...how once Wonderland became the main drag (reflected officially now by its designation as Highway 4, replacing Wharncliffe).

By most measures, Wharncliffe has become a real armpit of a road. The uglification has intensified over the past two decades, as prosperity moved and was replaced by dodgy businesses and abandoned shopfronts.

Dundas Street East has also been a victim of armpitization. Maybe it was bound to be that way once pedestrian traffic (aside from the junkies) largely dried up?

I have noticed that parts of the bottom end of Wellington are becoming armpitty...that shitty plaza on the southwest corner of Exeter/Wellington being a good example. Also the forlorn former superstore mall on the other side of the 401 on Wellington.

When the city opens up new areas for development on the fringes, it seems to exacerbate this donut effect. Another way to think about it is that this is like scraping finite layer of butter over an expanding piece of bread: the quality thins out until it becomes very patchy or undetectable.

What other areas of the city are prone to armpitization? What can be done to minimize this inefficiency?

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

What can be done to minimize this inefficiency?

Intensification. We'll see some new investments along the routes planned for BRT like Wellington & Bradley redevelopment, and Dundas East is getting a shot in the arm with the reconstruction, BRT east of Ontario, and all that new development in and around the Kellog factory.

As for Wharncliffe south, it could also benefit from this kind of investment. There is a plan in place to improve the roadway a bit (a little narrow so can't do much without taking out a lane or destroying properties) and of course the CN overpass rebuild will help. It may operate semi-ok if the 4 lane road was converted to a 3 lanes (one each way + a centre turn lane), bike lanes and wider sidewalks.

As this city becomes denser and denser, little infill developments will help make previously neglected areas more important as there are things that can be improved.

London's stayed very much the same until around 2020. By 2025 this city will feel like a very different place.

[Djeffery]

I somewhat disagree about what Wharncliffe has become. I don't think it's much different than it was over the 40+ years I've lived here. The highway 4 designation isn't really a sign that Wharncliffe is in decline, it's just a matter of a really dumb but necessary routing through downtown no longer being needed because of the improvements to Wonderland over the years. Not the least of which is that it didn't actually run the breadth of the city until the late 70's, and of course, most recently being it's extension to the south and new interchange with the 401. Wonderland makes vastly more sense to be designated a highway now. If Highway 2 was still a thing, Wharncliffe would still be part of the London routing of that.

I do believe that as part of the reconstruction down to Commissioners (conveniently, after the underpass construction instead of at the same time), that the roadway will be widened to make the lanes a more standard width instead of the narrow ones they are now.

[ssiguy]

I always thought Wharncliffe was a disappointment but the reality is that it always has been. Part of it's problem in helping to encourage more small businesses and becoming more pedestrian friendly is that it's just 2 blocks from Wortley Village which is a lovely and far more enticing place to go.

Old East is still very sketchy but it's best days are ahead of her. With the BRT, streetscape improvements, development, and soaring population with new apt blocks. Yes, it still certainly has it's issues but compared to what it was even 10 years ago, the neighbourhood is unrecognisable.

I think one of the more interesting neighbourhoods to watch will be Wellington Street between Horton & Baseline. With the BRT, SOHO developments, it's close proximity to downtown, more affordable housing, and rather unique ethnic make-up, I could see it becoming a real draw over the next 20 years.

[jammer139]

What your talking about is a normal and natural process that all urban centers and natural systems experience. What is shiny and new eventually fades and dies as the energy moves to new areas. In time new things will grow from the ashes. At one time Uptown London (aka EOA) was a vibrant strip of businesses anchored by Hudsons and the Metropolitan dept stores and countless others. Those were the glory days of that stretch of Dundas St. There is some hope that shiny new things will grow in the ashes we now see there.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification

[ssiguy]

I remember going to the movies in an old theatre on Dundas E of A when I was a kid.

It was always a low income area but really started to decline in the 1970s. Old East will, over the long-term, do VERY well. It has a growing population, a real cultural and urban vibe, is getting a lot of business & governmental investment, BRT, and the area has a lot of history and some real architectural gems.

Horton-Hamilton, however, will take much longer and especially because I think the area of SOHO that will expand and prosper first is Wellington Street.

[Truenorth00]

Does anybody here watch the videos made by Jason Slaughter of Note Just Bikes?

He's from London. And now lives in Amsterdam. He uses London as an example in a lot of his videos.

I think there's two that are quite relevant to this discussion:

• Video Link

• Video Link

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Does anybody here watch the videos made by Jason Slaughter of Note Just Bikes?

He's from London. And now lives in Amsterdam. He uses London as an example in a lot of his videos.

I think there's two that are quite relevant to this discussion:

• Video Link

• Video Link

Great video, never heard of him though. What he is saying is totally true and I can't understand why we are not building more mixed use developments here in London and Ontario. And he is right, I don't even see this type of development in Toronto. I used to travel to Atlanta and saw lots of that building there in certain areas. Couldn't understand why we don't do it here.

The Battery Atlanta - https://batteryatl.com/
Town Brookhaven - https://patch.com/georgia/brookhaven...tial-community

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Great video, never heard of him though.

His channel is amazing. I just listened to an interview with him on the Strong Towns podcast today. And he basically started making these videos to explain to his friends and family why they moved to Amsterdam. What's really interesting about his backstory is that he's not an urban planner. He's an Electrical Engineer who grew up in London, who just happen to start piecing it all together as he got a ton of corporate travel that let him visit the suburban areas of different cities. In the podcast, he also talks about how it makes him angry to see how much of old London was destroyed and how he eventually gave up on Canadian cities, because he didn't think meaningful change would come in a lifetime. It's really worth the listen.

But if you want a quick and dirty, this is his earliest video on his backstory. You'll see the whole familiar London to Toronto migration in his 20s. And then where it led him from there:

• Video Link

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

What he is saying is totally true and I can't understand why we are not building more mixed use developments here in London and Ontario.

He has a specific video on this:

• Video Link

Here's another video that I think is particularly applicable to London, especially with all the subdivisions coming at the edges of the city:

• Video Link