NEW YORK | PA Bus Terminal Towers | 1,346 FT & 926 FT & FT| FLOORS

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by BanBrokenChatBots

Considering the PA bus terminal is the armpit of the City this deserves nothing but applause + get two near supertall towers out of this.

lol,

Sounds like the smaller tower would be near supertall but the higher one well above. I hope they aren't boxes but probably will be.

[observation deck]

I would be honored to participate in this project

[mrnyc]

well the entrance and 41st are quite grand, but i'm really wondering what the outside of it will look like, like around the blocks, especially considering that its so large and that its what we wiil have to see.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

lol,

Sounds like the smaller tower would be near supertall but the higher one well above. I hope they aren't boxes but probably will be.

As I said, I knew I would regret posting those height figures, which aren't real figures but posted for the purposes of this study.

But I'll say it again. Forget about those numbers and designs. Neither is real. What you have is a 3msf zoned tower and a 2 msf tower zoned tower, which translates to likely a 3.5 msf + tower and a 2.5 msf + tower, beginning above a 160 ft terminal structure.


But first, speaking of the changes in the planning, the two tower alignment is not unusual, but it does cut into the views of the potential office towers. Having them both offset would have created more views. Of course, looking at Hudson Yards, that doesn't seem to be a problem in terms of getting towers leased.











But what you have here is a massing for the purposes of the environmental review. This is actually much closer to what the Port Authority was originally considering for the new terminal (and where plans were for a tower on top of the current terminal).

It's not as if this is a design that's being proposed, but necessary for the study to move forward.







But still, the two towers aligned, as oppesed to offset like the original WTC, would be no different than 30 and 10 Hudson Yards, and 1 and 2 Manhattan West.











As we know, Manhattan West was designed at a different time in New York City office space development. The original plan called for a 1,216 ft 2.4 msf tower, and a 1.6 msf 935 ft tower.

Site 729A
Northwest corner of Ninth Avenue and West 31st Street
Ownership: Privately owned
Assemblage required: No
Height Limits: None
Max. ZFA (SF): 2,443,400

Site 729B
Southeast corner of Ninth Avenue and West 33rd Street
Ownership: Privately owned
Assemblage required: No
Height Limits: None
Max. ZFA (SF): 1,533,851

We went from seeing the larger tower increased in size from a lowrise addition, to seeing both towers with comparable sizes of 2 msf. Both towers were gobbled up because new office space is still relatively hard to find in Manhattan, even with a few developers who somehow can't or won't get their projects off the ground.







The new, shiny bus terminal will no doubt be a star in Midtown, especially after the long history of the old terminal. Foundations at least for the new towers would be built in phase two, or the building of the new terminal. We are probably years away from knowing who the developers will be, let alone what a design would look like. But as was said earlier, hopefully the team of Foster and Partners will be around to design towers to finish the vision.

[Busy Bee]

Didn't get an answer in the other thread but what exactly is the thinking behind making the "Dyer Deck-Overs" green space versus tapping the air rights for more development? Is this a Port Authority insistence? A "safety/terrorism" thing? The structure for an earth cap park is nearly the same as it would be for a building(s). A midblock "park" across two blocks bookended by relic structures is clunky urban planning to say the least. Anyone know the history if this plan and whether or not it may change?

As far as whether or not the deck could extend all the way to Tenth, I wonder if there are strict regulations regarding access to air for the portals. Though the north tunnel portal is being rendered showing an enclosure, or at least the ramp structure with a facade skin. I assume that structure would probably be porous like the other bus level structures to facilitate air movement and exhaust. But if the eastern portals are being left open to sky for air exhaust and intake requirements one would think the same would apply to the older north tunnel portal at Eleventh. All that being said the previous study plan graphics showed a tower sitting on top of the north tunnel portal... so what gives?


PS --- Speaking of the other thread in gen dev, I think some consideration should be taken about merging the threads until the planned towers become actual proposals. Like Penn Revamp/Empire District, all this information is being duplicated between two threads and conversion is being missed. My .02

[MAC123]

The early 2030s are gonna be like 2020 again. So many large structures expected to be completed around then

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Didn't get an answer in the other thread but what exactly is the thinking behind making the "Dyer Deck-Overs" green space versus tapping the air rights for more development? Is this a Port Authority insistence? A "safety/terrorism" thing? The structure for an earth cap park is nearly the same as it would be for a building(s). A midblock "park" across two blocks bookended by relic structures is clunky urban planning to say the least. Anyone know the history if this plan and whether or not it may change?

As far as whether or not the deck could extend all the way to Tenth, I wonder if there are strict regulations regarding access to air for the portals. Though the north tunnel portal is being rendered showing an enclosure, or at least the ramp structure with a facade skin. I assume that structure would probably be porous like the other bus level structures to facilitate air movement and exhaust. But if the eastern portals are being left open to sky for air exhaust and intake requirements one would think the same would apply to the older north tunnel portal at Eleventh. All that being said the previous study plan graphics showed a tower sitting on top of the north tunnel portal... so what gives?


PS --- Speaking of the other thread in gen dev, I think some consideration should be taken about merging the threads until the planned towers become actual proposals. Like Penn Revamp/Empire District, all this information is being duplicated between two threads and conversion is being missed. My .02

Firstly, the towers in current forms are proposals. The terminal itself is a mega development, with many moving parts.

As far as the decking over goes, the Port Authority has it’s own particular sets of rules and guidelines about what it can and what it will not do. There is also what was agreed to in the many community meetings over the years. Frankly I think they should build over all of the tunnel right of ways. It’s very difficult walking around that area.

The Port Authority owns a wide swath of land on the west side. I know they have been refocused to deal primarily with transit and shipping issues. But stitching up the west side would be great. And a big tradeoff for building this massive structure through the community.

[jbermingham123]

The art deco influence is incredible.

This thing looks like a hudson... or, perhaps, an old fashioned bus:

[BK1985]

I was really hoping there would be some more renderings

[NYguy]

https://therealdeal.com/new-york/202...fice-projects/

Port Authority’s $10B revamp plans to add two office towers
It’s not the first attempt to save the decrepit bus terminal


FEB 7, 2024
By TRD Staff

At a public hearing on Tuesday, Port Authority officials unveiled an ambitious $10 billion proposal to overhaul the infamous transportation hub, Crain’s reported. Slightly more than a dozen people turned up at the hearing, according to W42ST, though another 50 tuned in online.

Port Authority wants to transform the cramped and cavernous bus terminal into a modern, bright hub for commuters and travelers, along with two new office towers that will rise above the terminal. The agency plans to fund much of the proposed project, but officials are also placing their hopes on $2.5 billion in tax revenue from the new office developments.

The same strategy was in the works with Vornado Realty Trust to help finance a redevelopment of Penn Station. Gov. Kathy Hochul was forced to separate the office projects from the Penn Station funding, however, as Vornado’s office dreams were scuttled by post-pandemic office challenges.

Port Authority executive director Rick Cotton appeared unafraid of that scenario at the bus terminal, expressing confidence the office market will rebound by the time the office towers go up.

But the pairing of office projects and a transformed Port Authority Bus Terminal, specifically, have fallen short before. Vornado nearly developed a 35-story tower for Cisco Systems at the beginning of the century, foiled by the dot-com bubble’s pop.

Steven Roth’s firm also offered to pay for station repairs in the early 2010s as part of a plan to lease air rights over the terminal to develop a 40-story office building. The Great Recession ground that plan to a halt.

This new proposal promises to deliver the project in the next decade, according to Cotton.

Tuesday’s session marked the opening of a 45-day public comment period on Port Authority’s proposal for the terminal. There will be four public hearings in the coming weeks on the plan, which has tentative support from local officials.

https://w42st.com/post/hells-kitchen...nd-high-hopes/

Hell’s Kitchen Hosts Preview of $10bn Port Authority Bus Terminal Revamp Amid Local Concerns and High Hopes





by Phil O'Brien

The most expensive show ever in Hell’s Kitchen opened last night to an audience of 17 people (with around 50 tuning in online). The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PANYNJ) put on a special preview of their $10bn Bus Terminal (PABT) replacement to locals before they begin formal public meetings later this month.

Executives from PANYNJ gave a preview of the Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS) for PABT which was published last week and described by PANYNJ as being “about 16 inches in thickness.” The release of the DEIS also started the clock on a 45-day public comment period. The project will replace the current terminal and complex of ramps with an extended footprint on Port Authority land snaking from 8th Avenue through Hell’s Kitchen to 11th Avenue. PABT currently serves more than 7,200 buses and about 200,000 people daily.

“It’s not necessarily the most attractive building in New York City,” said Glen Guzzi, Assistant Director of Major Capital Projects at PANYNJ to laughter from the gathered locals. “It’s reviled. We’re going to change that.”

Guzzi went on to present a plan that he stressed recognized the local community as much as the commuters that use the facility for their travel. In particular, he referenced how they had taken input from local elected officials and the community board to move the proposed high-rise development from 9th Avenue to 8th Avenue, wider sidewalks, street-facing retail and trees!

Meanwhile, Hersh Parekh, PABT’s Deputy Chief for Intergovernmental Affairs, compared the bus terminal plan to the organization’s transformation of LaGuardia Airport. “This was the exact same characterization of the old LaGuardia. When it opened back in the sixties, it was a marvel in the aviation industry. It was built on such a small footprint, but probably one of the busiest airports if you look at it per square foot activity,” he said.

“But LaGuardia was not maintained the way it needed to be, did not keep up with modern times, modern technology, the modern customer. It was not the type of gateway that New York deserved. And so the Port Authority undertook a multi-billion dollar effort to rebuild — and it is a beautiful facility now that has received accolades worldwide. And that is the mission that we are bringing to this bus terminal replacement project,” added Parekh. “This bus terminal is a workhorse. It helps so many hundreds of thousands of people get to their destination every day. But this is not the gateway that New York deserves — and it is important that we make it right.”

The first job is to create decks over the Lincoln Tunnel on two blocks between W37th and W39th Street to the west of 9th Avenue (after construction, these areas will become a 3.5-acre park space for residents). After that, a staging and storage area will be built between W39th and W40th Street to the west of Rauschenbusch Metro Baptist Church, replacing existing PABT ramps. This will be used as a “Temporary Terminal” to allow the Main Terminal to be reconstructed into a reimagined transport hub. The ramps for the facilities will be extended from 10th Avenue through to 11th Avenue, with better access in and out of the Lincoln Tunnel.

The main terminal will accommodate two office towers on 8th Avenue. “The purpose of those towers is to drive funding to help build this project because $10bn is a very large project and we need to make sure that we have it fully financed,” said Parekh.

When asked about the current market for offices, Parekh said: ”There’s data showing that the commercial market is on the rebound. Just the other week there was a building that Gucci bought or sold for three times the amount that the experts predicted. We’re talking about these towers being built in the 2030s, so there’s a long timeline from now to then — and we believe that there will be demand for commercial, especially commercial on 8th Avenue facing Times Square.”

The space on 8th Avenue will be transformed with the closure of W41st Street to accommodate an atrium and better access to the subway. This was a feature in the two visuals released by PANYNJ of the new plans.

Attendees asked if 24-hour working (with associated construction noise) would be needed to get delivery on their eight-year plan. “I do not expect to be working 24/7. We didn’t even do that at the World Trade Center and that was a project where we were given a lot of carte blanche to fix what occurred in Manhattan,” said Parekh. “For instance, on 40th Street, there are hotels, they’re in the business of selling space for people to sleep.”

[NYguy]

About 25% of the funding for the new terminal will come from the new towers.


https://www.globest.com/2024/02/09/p...-bus-terminal/

The office-tower scheme is designed to provide a big chunk of the financing for the project. The PA is hoping to develop payment-in-lieu-of-taxes agreements with NYC to build two towers of commercial space, providing about $2.5B in funding.

[Busy Bee]

^Chinese laborers

[Mulan]

"The announcement Tuesday includes a new third tower, to be built on land bounded by West 30th and West 31st streets and 9th and 10th avenues near the Lincoln Tunnel."

https://www.crainsnewyork.com/transp...de-third-tower

[mrnyc]

^ yeah it's really a thoughtful plan and although you cant predict the future office market for the towers and that 20% of the costs its still a fine bet they get built and leased out.

personally i'm fine with the bus terminal just as i was with the mta fulton center station and lga and i'd rather all this money went to transit extensions, but i know they are/were rather decrepit and that i'm in the minority.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

^ yeah it's really a thoughtful plan and although you cant predict the future office market for the towers and that 20% of the costs its still a fine bet they get built and leased out.

personally i'm fine with the bus terminal just as i was with the mta fulton center station and lga and i'd rather all this money went to transit extensions, but i know they are/were rather decrepit and that i'm in the minority.

Yeah, the time for action is now. They have a plan, lets move forward. Endless debate just means endless delays and a new station that will never materialize.

[Busy Bee]

I know it's just sort of a general sentiment but a new bus terminal isn't being built in lieu of MTA transit improvements --- as much as those are also desired ---- because this is a Port Authority project and there would be no equivalent tax funding arrangement with the city and state that would benefit transit from a few office towers like is happening here. I suppose the closest comparison would be the mandatory GCT/GCM adjacent access points built into the newest rash of towers in Midtown East.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

I suppose the closest comparison would be the mandatory GCT/GCM adjacent access points built into the newest rash of towers in Midtown East.

That and the coming congestion pricing, which when you think about it, goes hand in hand with the push for a new terminal.

[Crawford]

Nice. 1346 ft., especially with this kind of bulk, is gonna be pretty epic. And the companion tower is pretty substantial too.

Hope the third tower is another major supertall, with bulk and height.

[UrbanImpact]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Nice. 1346 ft., especially with this kind of bulk, is gonna be pretty epic. And the companion tower is pretty substantial too.

Hope the third tower is another major supertall, with bulk and height.

Wouldn't this be a contender of largest building in NYC with that much floor space, towers & terminal?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by UrbanImpact

Wouldn't this be a contender of largest building in NYC with that much floor space, towers & terminal?

Terminal and towers together, you're talking over 7 msf. This is a pretty huge development overall, and not enough people in New York are talking about it.